I thought I was looking for simplicity, but...

[faffi]

I really do not know what word to put on what I am looking for to enhance my quality of life, but while I prefer simpler stuff, it does not mean simplicity. If I want to make my life simple and easy, I would buy a new car and bike every 3 years and have the dealer service it. And have a painter pain my house, and gardener keep my garden nice.

But I want to be more involved. And that means being able to understand the stuff I surround myself with, then being able and motivated to maintain and fix them. Hence I much prefer a simple motorcycle/car/whatever, even if they need more frequent upkeep. Reducing the amount of stuff I own will also simplify my life - the less you own, the less of your time is spent on maintenance. And, typically, when spreading yourself thinly over many objectcts, the quality and/or regularity of work is lowered.

Hence I think that at least for the moment, I am slowly going to reduce the amount of things I own, and whatever is replaced must be of a design that I want to maintain on my own. For instance, I do not need several motorcycles, or cars, or phones, or computers and so on.

How about you?

[DoubleGuzzi]

Hence I think that at least for the moment, I am slowly going to reduce the amount of things I own..

I really do like the sentiment but struggle to put it into practice. 

[Kev m]

You're talking about minimalism.

I can relate somewhat, but don't agree with your equating simplicity of a machine to ease or even ability to maintain it. Though you can run into complicated problems with a higher tech machine, they aren't guaranteed in normal lifespan. And maintenance isn't automatically more complicated. That's literally why I have a small fleet of modern bikes.

The rest is all preference on a sliding scale that runs between Elon and the Amish.

[jcctx]

Four yrs. ago We owned 2 homes and 2 vehicles. Now no homes, 1 vehicle. The MK C is 8 yrs. old. Six yrs. back I still had 3 2 wheelers and a motorized bicycle?? We now rent and pay attention the assisted living ads in case we need to move to one. We still own too much of the stuff we have accumulated over 63 years married. Need to pare it down??

[bronzestar1]

Interesting concept that could apply to a bunch of things.  The oldest vehicle I own is a 1981 Lancia Zagato.  It's a garage queen, currently doesn't start, but I think I have a fix for that (need to incorporate a relay from the ignition wire to the starter solenoid).  It's a simple enough fix, but is it something I want to tackle being 65 years old?  Maybe, maybe not, I'll have to see where that solenoid wire is and make a decision. 

However, the same can't be said for my motorcycles.  The "oldest" ones I have are both '24s, a Triumph Scrambler 400X and a V100 Mandello.  I have a '26 Aprilia Tuono 660 Factory on the way, so all my bikes will be far from being "simple".  But I'm okay with that, I'll tinker with them for things like mirrors, windscreens, engine guards, exhausts, tail tidys, grips, chain adjustments, etc.  The fact that I won't be able to fully diagnose/fix a problem like one could on an older (simpler) bike doesn't bother me.  I don't ride that much anymore anyway, so if I get several thousand miles out of them without any major issues, I'll be happy with that.  And if I have to take it to the dealer for service and repair issues, I can live with that too.  At 65, I've got better things to do with my time than futz around with my bikes, and try to diagnose and fix something that I have neither the knowledge or the skills to deal with.       

[SemperVee]

 EXACTLY why I added a 2003 (fine example) of a Cali EV Hydro after looking at the complexity of the new motorcycles even as I can easily afford any new one I wanted.

[faffi]

You're talking about minimalism.

I can relate somewhat, but don't agree with your equating simplicity of a machine to ease or even ability to maintain it. Though you can run into complicated problems with a higher tech machine, they aren't guaranteed in normal lifespan. And maintenance isn't automatically more complicated. That's literally why I have a small fleet of modern bikes.

The rest is all preference on a sliding scale that runs between Elon and the Amish.

Minimalism? Yeah, that is probably the best expression so far, even if it is not quite correct. I would like to get rid of clutter, or what my wife call decorative items  , and not owning 3 or 10 items where a single item could do the job.

However, during the past year, we have acquired a cabin (bought from my wife's mother) that have taken a lot to renovate. And it has become more complicated - and practical - by adding running water, a complete (of cramped) bathroom and an upgraded kitchen, including a dishwasher. Still quite simplistic, though.

At one stage, though, we will likely sell our cabin as well as our house and buy either a flat or a single plane house near the sea to replace them both, leaving us with one building that can do the job of a recreational resort and a daily home. Still not what I would call minimalism.

True minimalism, the way I see it, would mean to cut back on everything not needed. Reportedly, native Americans used to say that if you own more than you can carry with you, you are prisoner of the stuff. There are people living just fine even here in snowy Norway without running water, electrical power, motorized vehicles and far away from the nearest town or grocery shop. I could do it, but I do appreciate a level of comfort typically associated with the modern society.

As to maintenance of modern vehicles - yes, I agree, my V9 is very easy to maintain. Easier than a 40 year old Guzzi. Still, there is something about drum brakes, points ignition and carburetors that I enjoy, even if it does mean more maintenance. Probably because it is very easy to understand how they work and maintain, even if more time consuming. Maybe I am just getting romantic in my later years

[Perazzimx14]

Minimalism? Yeah, that is probably the best expression so far, even if it is not quite correct. I would like to get rid of clutter, or what my wife call decorative items  , and not owning 3 or 10 items where a single item could do the job.

However, during the past year, we have acquired a cabin (bought from my wife's mother) that have taken a lot to renovate. And it has become more complicated - and practical - by adding running water, a complete (of cramped) bathroom and an upgraded kitchen, including a dishwasher. Still quite simplistic, though.

At one stage, though, we will likely sell our cabin as well as our house and buy either a flat or a single plane house near the sea to replace them both, leaving us with one building that can do the job of a recreational resort and a daily home. Still not what I would call minimalism.

True minimalism, the way I see it, would mean to cut back on everything not needed. Reportedly, native Americans used to say that if you own more than you can carry with you, you are prisoner of the stuff. There are people living just fine even here in snowy Norway without running water, electrical power, motorized vehicles and far away from the nearest town or grocery shop. I could do it, but I do appreciate a level of comfort typically associated with the modern society.

As to maintenance of modern vehicles - yes, I agree, my V9 is very easy to maintain. Easier than a 40 year old Guzzi. Still, there is something about drum brakes, points ignition and carburetors that I enjoy, even if it does mean more maintenance. Probably because it is very easy to understand how they work and maintain, even if more time consuming. Maybe I am just getting romantic in my later years

Yes ago we started a LEAN/5S initiative at work and it bled into home life. Getting rid of waste instead of buying storage bins and organizing the waste has been great. Next up the basement and the old wine making area. Haven't made wine in decades so its time to get rid of everything. If i ever get back into wine making I'll rebuy someone else's setup that is getting out of wine making.

[faffi]

Yes ago we started a LEAN/5S initiative at work and it bled into home life. Getting rid of waste instead of buying storage bins and organizing the waste has been great. Next up the basement and the old wine making area. Haven't made wine in decades so its time to get rid of everything. If i ever get back into wine making I'll rebuy someone else's setup that is getting out of wine making.

I hear you! How many times have you hung unto something just because it could become useful one day? And then, after it has collected dust for 20-odd years, you finally throw it out. Then, just days or even hours later, you regret throwing it out, because you finally had use for it I now try to toss everything I do not need anymore. Yes, at one stage I may wish I still had it, but at least I had more room for a couple of decades 

[SIR REAL ED]

Great thread.

For a timeless guide, check out Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.  I prefer the translation by Maxwell Staniforth.

Reminds me of the old farmer saying:  "Never plant more tomato plants than you are will to carry water to."

First world problems are the best kind to have....

Having so much money, time, and resources that one has to discipline themselves not to do stupid stuff is a pretty good life.

I've known people addicted to buying nick-nacks.  A few decades later, their two car garage is filled to the ceiling with cardboard boxes full of nick-nacks they have not laid eyes on in years.

But hey, shopping is their thing and they really are not harming anyone.

Another guy i know has 90 acres of stuff.  Hundreds of old cars, old trucks, bulldozers, excavators, road tractors, farm tractors, engines, transmissions, wheels, etc.

I joked with him that he has over 500 years of projects sitting around.

He seems as happy as anyone else I have ever met.

"Different strokes for different folks!" as we used to say in the 1960's.

[Perazzimx14]

Great thread.

For a timeless guide, check out Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.  I prefer the translation by Maxwell Staniforth.

Reminds me of the old farmer saying:  "Never plant more tomato plants than you are will to carry water to."

First world problems are the best kind to have....

Having so much money, time, and resources that one has to discipline themselves not to do stupid stuff is a pretty good life.

I've known people addicted to buying nick-nacks.  A few decades later, their two car garage is filled to the ceiling with cardboard boxes full of nick-nacks they have not laid eyes on in years.

But hey, shopping is their thing and they really are not harming anyone.

Another guy i know has 90 acres of stuff.  Hundreds of old cars, old trucks, bulldozers, excavators, road tractors, farm tractors, engines, transmissions, wheels, etc.

I joked with him that he has over 500 years of projects sitting around.

He seems as happy as anyone else I have ever met.

"Different strokes for different folks!" as we used to say in the 1960's.

My buddy built 3 or 4 storage facilities in our area for these very people. He make a good living storing all the stuff they'll never use or likely ever see again.

[cliffrod]

About 25 yrs ago, my wife and I went to the local hardware store.  Some guy was in the aisle near the front door, sitting on the floor surrounded by at least 6-7 toaster ovens that he had removed from the boxes.    Boxes, plastic bags, styrofoam, owners manuals were all over the place- Looked like a kid with his presents on Christmas morning.  We got there just as one of the employees came over to inquire about the situation.  Guy looks up and says “I need to buy a toaster oven to simplify my life.”  Employee replied with the basic  “ok if I can help, let me know” and we all moved on. 

We did our hardware business and left to go to a couple other stores there on main street.  We were still amused so we checked the hardware store as we headed back to the van.  1 1/2 hrs had passed and guy was still sitting on the floor surrounded by toaster ovens….

Ever since then, whenever things have gotten to the complicated/aggravated level in life, one of us will say “I think we need to buy a toaster over” & the other will agree and finish with “we need to simplify our life”.  That’s the most consistent mantra of our life.

we often wonder if that guy is still sitting in that aisle or if the toaster oven he hopefully bought really did simplify his life.

[Motormike]

For instance, I do not need several motorcycles, or cars, or phones, or computers and so on.

How about you?

Of course I don't NEED them.  I just want them.  Big difference. 

[SIR REAL ED]

Erik,

Re-prioritization is the word you are looking for.

When your priorities change, so will the support hardware.

Yesterday's "greatest thing since sliced bread" becomes just another thing I might need to walk around.

[faffi]

Great thread.

For a timeless guide, check out Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.  I prefer the translation by Maxwell Staniforth.

Reminds me of the old farmer saying:  "Never plant more tomato plants than you are will to carry water to."

First world problems are the best kind to have....

Having so much money, time, and resources that one has to discipline themselves not to do stupid stuff is a pretty good life.

I've known people addicted to buying nick-nacks.  A few decades later, their two car garage is filled to the ceiling with cardboard boxes full of nick-nacks they have not laid eyes on in years.

But hey, shopping is their thing and they really are not harming anyone.

Another guy i know has 90 acres of stuff.  Hundreds of old cars, old trucks, bulldozers, excavators, road tractors, farm tractors, engines, transmissions, wheels, etc.

I joked with him that he has over 500 years of projects sitting around.

He seems as happy as anyone else I have ever met.

"Different strokes for different folks!" as we used to say in the 1960's.

Thanks for the tip!

As to collecting stuff one does not need; with our cabin came my mother in law's collection of stuff she had accummulated over the years. Note this was just for the cabin - her home is next to impossible to enter. Why do you need 13 frying pans in a cabin where you spend 6 weeks per year? Or three types of duvet for each of the 8 beds? Or 3 different sets of coffee-cups with plates, each for 8 people, just to have the right style for every occasion. A lot of the stuff was still in their original wrapping. We managed to give away 250,000 cubic inches of stuff, we threw away probably ten times that - and there is still far too much crap remaining, that we feel obliged to hang onto for a bit more, as mother in law was really heartbroken for seeing all her possessions go away. Even if most of it have never been used, and never would have been used.

[SIR REAL ED]

an inevitable result of getting older.  If you buy just one non-consumable every two weeks, after 20-30 years, that's a lot of stuff!

then as your list of enjoyable activities shrink, you need even less of what you previously used & enjoyed.

I probably have a lot of tools I will rarely use again, but when I need them they are invaluable..... assuming i can find them.

Other than tools for me, and animals for my wife, we live a life more spartan than most Westerners.

[faffi]

Sure, we accumulate stuff, most of us, although it good to hear that you have a solid awareness around it, Edward. But I also think most of us will be happy to clear out clutter we have never used, or does not use anymore. My mother in law, however, is a hoarder, and getting rid of anything really do take a toll on her. She needs help, as her home is crazy filthy and about to burst from all the crap piling up inside, but completely refuse it.

[SIR REAL ED]

Sure, we accumulate stuff, most of us, although it good to hear that you have a solid awareness around it, Edward. But I also think most of us will be happy to clear out clutter we have never used, or does not use anymore. My mother in law, however, is a hoarder, and getting rid of anything really do take a toll on her. She needs help, as her home is crazy filthy and about to burst from all the crap piling up inside, but completely refuse it.

I have several relatives and friends who have the same mental condition.  Even throwing out things like old newspapers and unopened junk mail is almost impossible for them to do.

It seems more common in older people.  Perhaps a subconscious attempt to cling to youth and memories, faced with the reality that most of life is now behind them.

Possessions become almost like friends.  Or perhaps for celebrities, possessions become like fans.

The human connection to our intrpretation of reality is an amazingly complex and subtle phenomena.

[YellowDuck]

Sometimes you can simplify too much.  If I sold all the bikes and kept only the V7, I'd die of boredom.  It needs nothing.  A valve adjustment takes like 20 min, which is very disappointing for someone who likes to tinker, and there are no raw alumin(i)um cases to polish or chain to adjust. What am I supposed to do on a rainy Saturday, check the tire pressures repeatedly?

[faffi]

Sometimes you can simplify too much.  If I sold all the bikes and kept only the V7, I'd die of boredom.  It needs nothing.  A valve adjustment takes like 20 min, which is very disappointing for someone who likes to tinker, and there are no raw alumin(i)um cases to polish or chain to adjust. What am I supposed to do on a rainy Saturday, check the tire pressures repeatedly?

You could own a Henderson and always have something to tinker with 

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

You could own a Henderson and always have something to tinker with 

The gentleman who ran a Henderson in the 2023 Motorcycle Cannonball joked to the other riders as he headed to dinner early while they were working on their bikes something along the lines of "Of course there's nothing to work on, it's a Henderson".

The rest is all preference on a sliding scale that runs between Elon and the Amish.

Wendell Berry has a quote on the Amish:
"They alone, as a community,
have carefully restricted their use of machine-developed energy, and so have
become the only true masters of technology."

I think a lot of motorcycle "luddites" can relate to that. We pick and choose which features we want, or don’t want, as much as the market of new and used bikes allows. If a certain technology doesn’t serve you, and you can avoid it, maybe you should.

That’s one thing I enjoy about my Moto Guzzi V7: aside from needing a pricey third-party tool to reset the maintenance reminder, it’s pretty accessible to work on. Service Manual PDFs are distributed for free (legally). By contrast, with modern Ducatis, the documentation often just says "take it to the dealer," and an owner-accessible service/workshop manual usually doesn’t exist until the bike has been out for a few years and Haynes eventually publishes one.

In that sense, I think we Moto Guzzi riders are doing a bit of our own "mastering of technology" by abstaining from some of it through our purchasing decisions.

[faffi]

I agree, the Guzzi family still consist of bikes that are easy to maintain. For whatever reason, the service lamp on my 2017 V9 has never come on during the 10,000+ miles the bike have covered.

[Tom]

Local saying on this island.  "If can.  Can!  If no can.  No can!"  Say it slow and repeat.  It'll make sense.