Why Do We Buy a Guzzi?

[Gaertn]

I think my old Sport 1200 is close to the greatest motorcycle engine I've every experienced, character wise. My 1100 Griso was essentially the same engine, but the 1200 had just a smidgen more of a polished feel. My V7 is nice but a far cry from the bigger engines. Not to start a big debate, but I feel something was lost in the V7's. I've had two ('14 & '17), and they both lacked the midrange I thought they should have. Yes of course less displacement, but they don't (to me) feel like the little brother of the big blocks, they feel like something else.

Last summer I bought a 1200 Sportster Custom on a bit of a whim, and the amazing character of that engine caught me off guard. I was never into Harley's. I wasn't a hater, but had no interest in them. But the the Sportster gives me a grin every time I get on it. I find it a much better all-rounder than my V7. It has the bigger tank so I might even tour it a bit this summer.

[rocker59]

Last summer I bought a 1200 Sportster Custom on a bit of a whim, and the amazing character of that engine caught me off guard. I was never into Harley's. I wasn't a hater, but had no interest in them. But the the Sportster gives me a grin every time I get on it. I find it a much better all-rounder than my V7. It has the bigger tank so I might even tour it a bit this summer.

Sportsters are great.  I've owned two.

I got lost in your sentence structure.  Guzzi should have the edge on range.  My 2014 V7 Classic would go forever on a tank of fuel.  250-miles on several trips.

The 1200C has a 4.5 gallon tank.  The 08-12 V7 Classics have a 4.5 gallon tank.  The 13-up V7 Classics have a 5.5 gallon tank.  HD and Guzzi get about the same fuel economy.  The Sportster 1200C has good range, but the V7 Classic's is better.  The extra rear suspension travel of the V7 Classic would make me lean that way for long distance travelling.

[Bulldog9]

Not to start a big debate, but I feel something was lost in the V7's. I've had two ('14 & '17), and they both lacked the midrange I thought they should have. Yes of course less displacement, but they don't (to me) feel like the little brother of the big blocks, they feel like something else.

You skipped over the sweet spot of the V7 range before the 850's..... The 2016 (1 years only) V7ii was the last year of the Heron Head V7, 6 speed transmission, and ABS/TC....  I found the V7iii to be too vanilla and boring. I like the 5 speed V7, but the gearing on the 6 speed felt spunkier.  But there is NO comparison to a Big Block CARC, and why I will have one in the herd as long as I can physically handle it. I'll miss the 1200 Sport, but the 4V GRiSO and 8V Norge will soothe out any loss.....  Heck, the GRiSO is better than therapy, and the Norge is so smooth.

[Kev m]

Meh, like what you want to like.

The big blocks have punch and feel more like a freight train. Ironically that's what I like about Harleys too, and my last XL1200Lr (low turned into a Roadster) was no exception. I had it set up for touring with an HB topcase and detachable hard bags, and a decent windshield. But in the end I actually gave it away in favor of my 2013 and 2018 V7's.

Even with the 4.5g tank it was tough to get much more than 150+ miles on the Sporty and I don't think I ever made it to 200.

But both my V7's regularly see 200 before the low fuel light and easily pass 250. I like that. Yeah, they don't have the punch of the big blocks, but they don't have the mass either. They're something else and I dig em.

I bet the 26+ models have some punch though.

[johnwesley]

I loved my 2000 Sportster, but in the end it was the big-block Tonti that won my heart. I tried an Airhead in between, thinking it might be the answer, but it wasn’t quite what I was looking for—though I wasn’t entirely sure what that was at the time. I took it on a couple of big tours and was genuinely impressed, but eventually it rolled out of the shop.

Then the Guzzi came along. It just fit. It ticked all the boxes for me—character, capability, and performance—in a way the others never quite managed. Right balance, right feel, right bike.

[faffi]

Meh, like what you want to like.

The big blocks have punch and feel more like a freight train. Ironically that's what I like about Harleys too, and my last XL1200Lr (low turned into a Roadster) was no exception. I had it set up for touring with an HB topcase and detachable hard bags, and a decent windshield. But in the end I actually gave it away in favor of my 2013 and 2018 V7's.

Even with the 4.5g tank it was tough to get much more than 150+ miles on the Sporty and I don't think I ever made it to 200.

But both my V7's regularly see 200 before the low fuel light and easily pass 250. I like that. Yeah, they don't have the punch of the big blocks, but they don't have the mass either. They're something else and I dig em.

I bet the 26+ models have some punch though.

I like the torque that comes with big engines, especially when they are tuned for low-end power instead of top-end. Mostly because bikes with go-fast engines are so tempting to ride fast. However, more often than not, big engines comes with significant weight penalties. And heavier thirst. Neither of which I like.

My once-Virago-now-standard Yamaha with an 1100 engine is a gem to ride, but 550 lb is a lot to push around if you must push it up a stair or hill. The Roamer is 475 lbs wet, including aftermarket center stand, and the performance is not terribly far off the once-Virago, partly thanks to lower weight.

However, I still think 300-350 lbs is the perfect range for a street bike, including fuel. But they are rare, and if you want one that has some grunt, you practially have to build it yourself.

[chuck peterson]

I saw this poster.

Then several years later, one found me, leaking from every seal possible.

for cheap. (Guzzi content)

[MikeP996]

"However, I still think 300-350 lbs is the perfect range for a street bike, including fuel."

That's pretty light!  I don't think I've ever owned a street motorcycle in that weight range - well, maybe my first motorcycle, a 125cc Kawasaki two-stroke.  Re that - a couple of my riding "buddies" in Mexico have switched to KTM 390 Dukes and are very happy with them.  They were previously riding big (heavy) BMWs, etc and marvel at the fact that, "If it falls over in the parking lot I can actually pick it up!!" 

I prefer Motos under 500 lbs - though my BMW R1200RS is well over that "limit."  I'd like to trade it on a new MG V7 sport or special here in Texas but I'm not liking ANY of the current V7 sport or special colors, at least based on internet pics/videos. I've not seen any in real life. 

There's a local dealer but he only has one '26 V7, a white special.  I'm not a fan of white motorcycles.

[Kev m]

Meh, like what you want to like.

The big blocks have punch and feel more like a freight train. Ironically that's what I like about Harleys too, and my last XL1200Lr (low turned into a Roadster) was no exception. I had it set up for touring with an HB topcase and detachable hard bags, and a decent windshield. But in the end I actually gave it away in favor of my 2013 and 2018 V7's.

Even with the 4.5g tank it was tough to get much more than 150+ miles on the Sporty and I don't think I ever made it to 200.

But both my V7's regularly see 200 before the low fuel light and easily pass 250. I like that. Yeah, they don't have the punch of the big blocks, but they don't have the mass either. They're something else and I dig em.

I bet the 26+ models have some punch though.

I'm quoting myself as evidence that I really didn't answer the original question so much as respond to one or two posts.

So I'll offer my response to the OP.

For me, it was about a time when I was rebuilding my life. I have myself a budget of $10k to find a bike (I had been without one for 6 months and was going nuts) and forced myself to look at every brand I could find.

I had previously owned both Harleys and BMWs (air and oil heads) and enjoyed traits of both.

When I found my Jackal it occurred to me that I'd found something with the traits I valued in both other brands - the visceral v-twin grunt/torque and ergos of a Harley with the shaft drive, dry clutch, Brembo brakes and decent handling of a BMW.

I felt a connection to this red headed step child of the motorcycle industry.

Still do.

[faffi]

I saw this poster.

Then several years later, one found me, leaking from every seal possible.

for cheap. (Guzzi content)

The rider manage to make the bike look really petite.

[Bulldog9]

Meh, like what you want to like.

The big blocks have punch and feel more like a freight train. Ironically that's what I like about Harleys too, and my last XL1200Lr (low turned into a Roadster) was no exception. I had it set up for touring with an HB topcase and detachable hard bags, and a decent windshield. But in the end I actually gave it away in favor of my 2013 and 2018 V7's.

Even with the 4.5g tank it was tough to get much more than 150+ miles on the Sporty and I don't think I ever made it to 200.

But both my V7's regularly see 200 before the low fuel light and easily pass 250. I like that. Yeah, they don't have the punch of the big blocks, but they don't have the mass either. They're something else and I dig em.

I bet the 26+ models have some punch though.

Don't be envious Kev..... I know you are stuck with 'small' blocks and you need to make yourself feel better about it.   

I've said many times that if it wasn't for my regular and easy access to the Griso and Norge (and 1200 Sport),  I would say the Mello Yello Stornello is the PERFECT motorcycle. After the 3K+ trip out West last year, I was extremely happy. 45-50MPG, flawless, and spunky fun on every turn. The trip was 100% OFF the super slab, and I wanted for nothing other than a little umph to pass on some roads, but it was a perfect trip. I was wondering why I even had the other bikes it was so good.

THEN............... I hopped on the GRiSO for a day trip, and took the 1200 Sport on a 1000 mile trip, followed by a couple day trips on the Norge, and I realized why I will always keep a big block. Nothing like them for character, feel, power. As I've said before, out of the box I prefer the 4V big block over the 8V, especially below 6K, but with some modifications like removing the cat, a good valve adjust and TB balance with a Beetle Map, the 8V can keep the 4V character, and bring the benefits of the 6K+ RPM power of the 8V.

It will be interesting to see what I think when I get the new V85 past the first service. I know that the V85 motor is higher strung than other Small Blocks, and more refined, and I'm OK with that, mainly because I have my old Heron Head V7 and big blocks. I rode several V7iii's and though they were smoother, and slightly more power than the V7ii, they felt meh to me. There's a reason you have kept your Heron Head, and it's the character of the Heron Head. I know you have a Hemi Head too.

I'm sure that the new 850's have more oomph and are closing the gap, especially in the spec sheets, but nothing can replace displacement. I rode a V9 Bobber Sport that felt great, but no comparison, even to the 1100 GRiSO. It is about preference, but also what you normalize to and accept. Loving what you ride, and riding what you love is what is all about, and I am glad we have so many options today.

But anyway, be of good cheer brother, you can borrow any of my Big Blocks for a REAL motorcycle fix whenever you want. 

[Kev m]

Don't be envious my Brother..... I know you are stuck with 'small' blocks and you need to make yourself feel better about it.   

< Snip >

But anyway, be of good cheer brother, you can borrow any of my Big Blocks for a REAL motorcycle fix whenever you want. 

All joking aside, if I wanted a big block today it wouldn't be a Guzzi.

Honestly, I had a love hate relationship with my Jackal, and I never really bonded with my B11. I was happy when I moved on from both with my V7 Stone.

My last RK was near perfect for me, I'm just not at a point now where I need or even want a big block. My smallblocks do everything I want and I'd rather not occupy that space in the garage or from my vehicle fund with one right now.

If and when I decide to go that direction again my current choice would be a new Heritage or more likely a Low Rider S with custom bag mounts for HB's. But who knows what will be available if and when they time comes.

And most importantly, I really have more fun with the V7's these days and I'm a good 6+ years away from us being empty nesters so I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I also like having a bunch of new 4x4's, especially with all the family road trips these days (soccer, soccer, soccer, snowboarding, soccer, soccer, soccer).

So, I'm good.

[Bulldog9]

All joking aside, if I wanted a big block today it wouldn't be a Guzzi.

Honestly, I had a love hate relationship with my Jackal, and I never really bonded with my B11. I was happy when I moved on from both with my V7 Stone.

My last RK was near perfect for me, I'm just not at a point now where I need or even want a big block. My smallblocks do everything I want and I'd rather not occupy that space in the garage or from my vehicle fund with one right now.

If and when I decide to go that direction again my current choice would be a new Heritage or more likely a Low Rider S with custom bag mounts for HB's. But who knows what will be available if and when they time comes.

And most importantly, I really have more fun with the V7's these days and I'm a good 6+ years away from us being empty nesters so I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I also like having a bunch of new 4x4's, especially with all the family road trips these days (soccer, soccer, soccer, snowboarding, soccer, soccer, soccer).

So, I'm good.

So your saying NORGE...... I'll be by with it this spring ;-)

[Kev m]

So your saying NORGE...... I'll be by with it this spring ;-)

No, I'm pretty sure I said CONVERT.

[Bulldog9]

No, I'm pretty sure I said CONVERT.

LOL............ Will do brother.

[faffi]

Since there is a discussion going about big vs small twin: I will say that my Roamer have much better performance, especially in the midrange, than the Cali II, Cali III and Cali EV that I have ridden. And the 2009 V7 Classic of my son is also quite satisfying to ride, and will pull well from the midrange, unlike them big twins I mentioned. Considering that the majority of roads we travel are limited to 50 mph or less, there really is no need for more performance than a V7 offer.

[Bulldog9]

Since there is a discussion going about big vs small twin: I will say that my Roamer have much better performance, especially in the midrange, than the Cali II, Cali III and Cali EV that I have ridden. And the 2009 V7 Classic of my son is also quite satisfying to ride, and will pull well from the midrange, unlike them big twins I mentioned. Considering that the majority of roads we travel are limited to 50 mph or less, there really is no need for more performance than a V7 offer.

Agreed, but as this thread is all about the 'WHY' I have to say that while the V7 is more than adequate for sub 50mph riding, fun, light and agile even in the tight stuff, WHY I have a Big Block is not just about high speed superslab power, but how you can brake harder dive deeper into a curve, and power out with far more competence than on a V7. The Griso is about 80lbs and Norge 140lbs heavier and feel it, but the larger brakes, tire contact area, more capable suspension, and power make me faster through the turns than on the V7.

[Gaertn]

Sportsters are great.  I've owned two.

I got lost in your sentence structure.  Guzzi should have the edge on range.  My 2014 V7 Classic would go forever on a tank of fuel.  250-miles on several trips.

The 1200C has a 4.5 gallon tank.  The 08-12 V7 Classics have a 4.5 gallon tank.  The 13-up V7 Classics have a 5.5 gallon tank.  HD and Guzzi get about the same fuel economy.  The Sportster 1200C has good range, but the V7 Classic's is better.  The extra rear suspension travel of the V7 Classic would make me lean that way for long distance travelling.

Yeah, I was a bit clunky with how I wrote that. I meant the Sportster has the big tank vs the little peanut tank on many Sportsters... and that since I enjoyed the Harley much more than I expected, I might even consider touring on it.

I've had 4 previous Guzzi's: 850T, Sport 1200, Griso 1100, and a 2017 V7. I missed having a Guzzi in the garage and even though I found the V7 a bit underwhelming, it's very easy to live with, so I bought a 2014. Having it alongside the Sportster will take the pressure off the V7 needing to be all things, so hopefully I'll get it well sorted and put a bunch of miles on it. The big blocks are amazing but they have a bit of a weight penalty when pushing them around the garage or driveway. The Sportster is heavy but it's low height helps it feel lighter than it is.

Regarding the "why", I was an airhead guy for many years, but once I rode a Guzzi I knew my BMW days were over. Guzzi engines just hit different with more mechanical character that is really hard to shake off. I know there's lots of overlap between the Guzzi and Airhead communities, but I find Guzzi's more akin to Harleys with their kind of mechanical rowdiness, if that makes sense.

[faffi]

Agreed, but as this thread is all about the 'WHY' I have to say that while the V7 is more than adequate for sub 50mph riding, fun, light and agile even in the tight stuff, WHY I have a Big Block is not just about high speed superslab power, but how you can brake harder dive deeper into a curve, and power out with far more competence than on a V7. The Griso is about 80 and Norge 140 and feels it, the larger brakes, tire contact area, more capable suspension, and power make me faster through the turns than on the V7.

I can see that several big block Guzzis offer better brakes and suspension than the V7 models, and because of that offer more confidence and performance within the Guzzi family. But everything else being equal, less weight should bring better handling and a higher level of confidence. Then again, very few will consider a Guzzi if high performance is their key motivation for riding - there are far, far more competent machines to be had for that.

[MikeP996]

"I have to say that while the V7 is more than adequate for sub 50mph riding, "

Are you saying the bike is not powerful enough?  My (850) V7 will easily exceed the ton; the bike/engine seem very comfortable to me at interstate/M-road speeds (70mph+).  Whether a rider is comfortable at those speeds re wind protection is a different issue.

Re wind protection - I have found that almost all bikes I have owned that have any sort of windscreen - like my BMW R1200RS - have an objectionable amount of helmet buffeting which I find FAR more debilitating on a ride than general wind pressure.  I tried three different screens on the BMW in addition to the OEM screen and all of them resulted in my teeth rattling from the helmet buffeting.  That does not occur on any un-screened machine I have ever owned or ridden.  IOW, for me helmet buffeting is far more bothersome than "clean" air at 70 MPH. 

[faffi]

I had a touring screen on my Deauville which I think was made by Givi, but not sure. It worked great, more silent than riding naked. And the way I could fit the Heavy Duty National Cycle screen on my Vulcan 800, see photo, also made it silent and gave full protection for from helmet down to and including knees, as well as hands. And once in a former life, I fitted a Windjammer V to a Honda 250 that worked excellent, and even increased the top speed of the poor little bike.

Those where the exceptions. I tried the same National Cycle screen on an Intruder 1400, a Virago 750 from 1982 and a DragStar Classic 650, and they were all making so much noise and helmet shake to be debilitating. I also bought a screen from USA, forgot the name, that promised to be free from draft and noise. Well, they were lying. The stock screen on the Deauville and not to mention the GSX600F katana were also noisy as heck.

In other words, in my experience the majority of screens add noise.

[Bulldog9]

"I have to say that while the V7 is more than adequate for sub 50mph riding, "

Are you saying the bike is not powerful enough?  My (850) V7 will easily exceed the ton; the bike/engine seem very comfortable to me at interstate/M-road speeds (70mph+).  Whether a rider is comfortable at those speeds re wind protection is a different issue.

Re wind protection - I have found that almost all bikes I have owned that have any sort of windscreen - like my BMW R1200RS - have an objectionable amount of helmet buffeting which I find FAR more debilitating on a ride than general wind pressure.  I tried three different screens on the BMW in addition to the OEM screen and all of them resulted in my teeth rattling from the helmet buffeting.  That does not occur on any un-screened machine I have ever owned or ridden.  IOW, for me helmet buffeting is far more bothersome than "clean" air at 70 MPH.

I'm talking about the 750's. They are 'adequate' and fun for sub 50mph, passable and able to hang in the 60's, and YES, can maintain 75MPH on the superslab, but let's face it....... When you are cooking along at 50mph on a state road, and come on grandma and her coffee clutch driving 35mph, you have limited space to pass............... . OR you are on a state highway moving at a steady 65 and need to pass or get out of the way or escape and evade an idiot.............. ...... Or you are loaded for bear on a long trip, and deep in the mountains, steep grade, up and down............... . The V7 is overmatched and the big blocks eat its lunch any and every day.  Try to pass with a V7 while scooting at 70 mph?  It's one of those "I think I can I think I can white knuckle little red caboose" moments. In a Big Block? Bang and it's over.... No sweat. 70-crack the throttle (downshift optional) 2 seconds your at 90, tuck back in the lane come off throttle and back to 70... Same on a Small block?  There is NOTHING in the tank.

But here is what I tell EVERYONE about the V7...... "It's the most fun you will ever have with 44-50hp......" 

Last year I did a 3000 mile trip with several Guzzi's. I think there were 3-4 V85's, another Stornello (lightly loaded) and some big BMW 6cy monstrosity. I wasn't exactly banging the Stornello off the rev limiter, but I had to work the thing and flog it to keep pace, and the other V7ii was always lagging, and it had a rider 30 lbs lighter than me, and 1/2 the luggage/load. There were some places where the V85's could pass at will, I couldn't and had to wait... and wait... and wait..... Had I been on the Norge, or 1200 Sport, or Griso, or on a V85, I could have ridden without such restrictions.

I imagine the V7 850 is a knotch better in every category than a 750, and even approaching the 1100 GRiSO on a spec sheet, but there is no real comparison for displacement and substance, except for MAYBE the new V7 Sport given the USD fork, twin discs, and other performance upgrades. Power is important, but displacement is reality......

Power and having 'enough' is relative......  You could have 500hp V8 in a Mustang and be completely satisfied, but many put a Whipple Super Charger and 300hp more on it feeling like it isn't enough.

[Moparnut72]

I bought a '26 V7 Special this past October. I haven't ridden an earlier 850 so I can't compare the '26 to earlier 850 models. According to what I have read the '26's have a larger throttle body, revised cam and a redesigned exhaust system for more low end power. I can say that my '26 has substantially more power than the V7lll that I traded for it. I was more interested in the cruise because of my messed up right hand however I was pleasantly with the increased power. I think it is very similar to the T120 I owned but that was a couple of years ago. The V7lll had to go into the higher rev range to realize decent power levels. The 850 not so much, newer rear shocks are much better as well.
kk

[Kev m]

But here is what I tell EVERYONE about the V7...... "It's the most fun you will ever have with 44-50hp......" 

Last year I did a 3000 mile trip with several Guzzi's. I think there were 3-4 V85's, another Stornello (lightly loaded) and some big BMW 6cy monstrosity. I wasn't exactly banging the Stornello off the rev limiter, but I had to work the thing and flog it to keep pace, and the other V7ii was always lagging, and it had a rider 30 lbs lighter than me, and 1/2 the luggage/load. There were some places where the V85's could pass at will, I couldn't and had to wait... and wait... and wait..... Had I been on the Norge, or 1200 Sport, or Griso, or on a V85, I could have ridden without such restrictions.

I imagine the V7 850 is a knotch better in every category than a 750, and even approaching the 1100 GRiSO on a spec sheet, but there is no real comparison for displacement and substance, except for MAYBE the new V7 Sport given the USD fork, twin discs, and other performance upgrades. Power is important, but displacement is reality......

Power and having 'enough' is relative......  You could have 500hp V8 in a Mustang and be completely satisfied, but many put a Whipple Super Charger and 300hp more on it feeling like it isn't enough.

I hear what you're saying and, I haven't ridden the latest version yet. I don't expect it to have the same freight train feel of the CARC big blocks.

But you keep comparing using a reference point there 4 generations old and the equivalent of the slowest bike I've ever loved/kept for any length of time.

The V7III is more powerful than the Heron head and more relaxed on the highway or passing.

The early V9 felt as good as my Jackal when it comes to that push.

The mk IV V7 850 was better than the MkIII still (not enough for me to sell the III, but better).

And everyone I've heard from on the 26+ MK V V7 with the same throttle body off the V85 says it feels much stronger than the IV.

I've seen favorable comparisons to the T120 Triumph which doesn't suffer for lack of displacement.


Yeah I get it's subjective and one might always want more but I'm starting to think it's gonna be the Goldilocks of smallblocks.

Or not.