The problem with old bikes

[faffi]

- is that they are old. And here Guzzi big twins and BMW airheads have something going for them compared to just about every other motorcycle out there, although I probably should include Harley as well.

What they offer is a product constant that make it easy to find parts and keep the bikes going decade after decade. Meaning that if you want a motorcycle from the 60s or later that is reliable and functional enough that it can be used daily and overhauled and/or repaired easily if and when needed, these are generally the most sensible ones to go for. Although one (I, at least) can argue that bikes from Japan generally are better made and more sophisticated, they typically suffer frequent replacement by entirely new designs, meaning parts can be difficult to source at a respectable price. There are exceptions, but then you need to know what you are looking for.

[guzzisteve]

From what I noticed there is no problem with older Guzzi's only ones AFTER Aprillia & Piaggio ownership. other brands I really don't care about.

[nwguy]

I've recently realized how serious shops not repairing or even maintaining bikes older than 10 years is. Craigslist and FB marketplace are flooded with bikes well over 10 years old with less than 20k miles on them. I spoke with 2 shops recently and they both verified that they generally don't work on 10+ year old bikes, or at best it's on a case by case basis. I understand why; parts availability, brittle plastic and rubber, generally poor condition. But most motorcyclists (not MG people) do limited work on their bikes. I know you can find independent shops, but that can be hard far from home. Motorcycles are seeming more and more disposable these days.

[Vagrant]

Just wait until they say they can't fix your 10 YO $70,000. car because none of the electronic components are available. 

[nwguy]

Just wait until they say they can't fix your 10 YO $70,000. car because none of the electronic components are available.

That's exactly what I've been thinking. I know auto shops already have some kind of limit or do repairs on a case by case basis, but if it's profitable for motorcycle dealers to do this, auto dealers must be hot on their heels. My wife drives a 1999 Camry. Our mechanic says "cheap to own, cheap to fix". But parts for a Camry are easy to find.

[faffi]

It's at least 25 years ago that Ford said their cars where designed for an 8-year life.

[SIR REAL ED]

It's at least 25 years ago that Ford said their cars where designed for an 8-year life.

It becomes an interesting engineering/design problem.  If the average owner updates every 5-6 years, then designing a car that lasts longer than that is adding value and utility that many buyers will not appreciate, benefit from, or be willing to pay for.

Very similar to internet communication regarding someone getting offended, the buyer always determines what a "good design" is.

I think the same applies to many consumer items like clothes, or shoes.  Housing may be the best example.  An industrial ball valve will last forever, kitchen or bathroom faucets designed for looks, not so long.  Few people choose to live in Quonset huts.  Probably due to resale problems.

As other threads have pointed out, OEM's have little concern for design to make maintenance easy, since most buyers do not perform their own maintenance anymore.

Same for me and computers.

Let's face it.  Many of us are outside of the bell curve.  Those who have not lived thru the Great Depression or two World Wars or who grew up poor, have different ideas of durable than other ancestors.

On the plus side, there are always older vehicles available to buy and drive.  In my town, there is a cobbler's shop.  They stay very busy.

[SIR REAL ED]

Back to the original thread.  Old bikes don't have problems, only opportunities!

[blu guzz]

Our connected world is a double edged sword.  On the one hand, it brings us plenty of negative things.  However, it has made connecting with people you want to connect with easier as well as support of hobbies such as finding parts for old bikes.  You no longer have to subscribe and wait for a print magazine, you can generally find what you are looking for very quickly now.  This does not eliminate problems that have always existed regarding trustworthyness of sellers, but we have always had to make those decisions.
I hope we will continue to see great restorations of all manner of bikes and cars for decades to come.

[SIR REAL ED]

It's at least 25 years ago that Ford said their cars where designed for an 8-year life.

I hear you!

More than once I have thought:  "Why not buy something like this?  It is easy to work on, and will last the rest of my life!  Plus it is cheaper than a new vehicle!"

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/724053250093809/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

[MikeP996]

It's interesting that in many cases, parts for old vehicles are EASIER to find now than they were when the vehicles were in production.  For example, you could build a complete 1973 Norton Commando with new, readily available parts and have them in a few days.  Though not quite the same level of "all parts,", almost anything you would normally need is equally available for my '76 Honda CB400F.  Same is true for many "classic" cars.

Of course, as noted, modern vehicles with their computerized systems are problematic simply because the systems change so quickly.  It would be very difficult for any company to have all replacement electronics on hand for vehicles more than say 10 years old.  As an example, my wife's car (2022) was recently in for a service and, in casual conversation, the tech mentioned that there were 95 different sensors in the car's electronics.  The 2026 version has 140 and many of them are not interchangeable with the '22, even when they are serving what appears to be the same function. 

[Perazzimx14]

I've recently realized how serious shops not repairing or even maintaining bikes older than 10 years is. Craigslist and FB marketplace are flooded with bikes well over 10 years old with less than 20k miles on them. I spoke with 2 shops recently and they both verified that they generally don't work on 10+ year old bikes, or at best it's on a case by case basis. I understand why; parts availability, brittle plastic and rubber, generally poor condition. But most motorcyclists (not MG people) do limited work on their bikes. I know you can find independent shops, but that can be hard far from home. Motorcycles are seeming more and more disposable these days.

I get why shops have a cutoff. At around 10 years of age the bike is careening towards the bottom of its value. Now take that bike to a shop that has a labor rate of $100 an hour for some work and in short order you are approaching the value of the bike in labor and materials w/o increasing the value of the bike by one red cent. Hand an owner a $1,000 or $1500+ bill for a bike that is only worth a couple of grand and they will recoil. Then add in the fact that is no shortage of newer bikes to work it makes working on older stuff all the less attractive.

I would also imagine technicians and what they are trained on play a roll in this as well. I don't imagine many shops invest in training new technicians on old technology.

[Vagrant]

In Tucson the shop rate is about $200. with shop supplies. I hear $250+ for cars in Chicago.

[Perazzimx14]

In Tucson the shop rate is about $200. with shop supplies. I hear $250+ for cars in Chicago.

of tires

Imagine taking in a a 2016 V7 for a clutch replacement that takes 8 hours (probably more) of shop time. You have superseded the value of the bike before you rolled in on the lift.

Oil/water cooled BMW Boxers its not uncommon for a clutch replacement (Hex/Cam) or stator (water cooled) to be in the $4,500/$5,000 range if you have a dealer do it. Heck its nothing to spend $700+ on a set of tires at the dealership.

I am glad I can and and more importantly want to do most stuff myself when it comes to motorcycles.

I guess to answer: What's the problem with old bikes? Their value!

[faffi]

IMO, if you have a normal income, the only way to justify owning old vehicles for daily use is to fix them yourself.

[yrunvs]

I'm just hoping the computer in my bike doesn't brick up like my laptops seem to do every few years.

[guzzisteve]

I'm just hoping the computer in my bike doesn't brick up like my laptops seem to do every few years.

Which bike, they been pretty good.

[guzzisteve]

IMO, if you have a normal income, the only way to justify owning old vehicles for daily use is to fix them yourself.

I found a kid to come for $100, got all diag for my Jeep, otherwise I do it. My retirement Jeep, not buying anything else. Hell, I was DOA 3 mo ago, what else would I buy w/7Guzzi's I'll stick w/non Chinese stuff

[Gliderjohn]

It can be a dilemma. For some years I had both the 8V Norge and my T-3. Yea, I couldn't do much more than fluid changes on the Norge but after it's first year of sorting things out it was bullet proof after that. If I rode the T-3 only I would be thinking, damn this is still a nice ride, but then get on the Norge and think THIS IS A NICE RIDE! For feeding the ego the T-3 is the clear winner. Regularly attracts lookers with questions and complements.They both are what they are and both have been great bikes to enjoy.
GliderJohn