Unlikely twins

[faffi]

Similar, but not identical, the Yamaha BT1100 Bulldog and the Moto Guzzi 1100 Breva.

https://www.1000ps.com/en-gb/comparison/61088/yamaha-bt-1100-bulldog-2006-vs-moto-guzzi-breva-1100-2007

[SIR REAL ED]

Interesting!

I wonder if the Yamaha Bulldog would have sold in the US if it were available?

I always like Yamaha's bold wilingness to experiment with new models that did not sell well.

Like the MT-01, SRX600, The Vision, etc.

[faffi]

I agree, I believe Yamaha traditionally was the boldest of the Japanese companies.

To add a few more:
TX500 and TX750 with balancer shafts, AFAIK the first in the motorcycling business
The 650/750/900 Seca plus the mentioned XZ550 Vision sportbikes with shaft final drive
Said Vision with a V-twin going against inline fours
TZ racebikes sold to privateers
Racing two-strokes when "everybody" was winning on 4-strokes - and eventually beating them
A triple 750 to go up against the fours
The V-Max

[SIR REAL ED]

I agree, I believe Yamaha traditionally was the boldest of the Japanese companies.

To add a few more:
TX500 and TX750 with balancer shafts, AFAIK the first in the motorcycling business
The 650/750/900 Seca plus the mentioned XZ550 Vision sportbikes with shaft final drive
Said Vision with a V-twin going against inline fours
TZ racebikes sold to privateers
Racing two-strokes when "everybody" was winning on 4-strokes - and eventually beating them
A triple 750 to go up against the fours
The V-Max

Back in late 1981, Cycle Guide magazine had a article that raved about the Seca 650, only available in Europe at that time.  Letters came in that sounded like everyone wanted to buy one.  It did not sell well.  IIRC, it was more expensive than the horrendous looking Seca 750.  I think they geared the 750 lower to get better 1/4 times.  The Seca 900 (853cc, IIRC) was a sharp looking bike, but I think the 150cc deficit compared to the 1000cc fours killed it's sales.

I owned two 1978 XS750 triples (a standard model and the Special), my brother also bought a 750 Special.  Great bikes.  He sold his to buy an XS1100 Special.  He never liked the 1100 as well as the 750.

Americans are very fickle consumers.

[Moparnut72]

I always thought the Secas were cool bikes but I was heavy into Airheads at the time. There is a bike that has been parked alongside his house for months now, if not longer. I think it may be a Seca. Could be next winter's project.
kk

[turboguzzi]

faffi, looking at your last posts, seems like it is still too cold to ride up there ;)

anyways, was hoping to read a story about those twins, not two data sheets 

Bulldog BT1100 sold here in italy, it was quite an odd ball, power plant from the 1100 cruiser in a roadster chassis, result: a totally character-less mix, whats not to like? :P

might have seen two in the last 20 years....

shitty bike or not, nowadays used prices are about the same for both, but would take a Breva any day over Bulldog

here's a proper road test for the japanese "Breva challenger":

https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/yamaha/first-ride-yamaha-bt1100-bulldog-14318.html

[mhershon]

Strange no one mentioned the XV920 V-twin with monoshock and enclosed chain...

[Tusayan]

Back in late 1981, Cycle Guide magazine had a article that raved about the Seca 650, only available in Europe at that time.  Letters came in that sounded like everyone wanted to buy one.  It did not sell well.  IIRC, it was more expensive than the horrendous looking Seca 750.

By 1986 you could buy a left over ‘82 Seca 650 for $1600 out the door, tax included.  I waited until the early 90s and had one for $1200 or so.  Not my favorite motorcycle of all time, but it did the job for a while and didn’t break. 

[faffi]

The BT1100 was a pretty lame dog compared to the Breva. So lame that MOTORRAD magazine made a comparison test between the BT1100, the 750 Breva and a Harley Sportster due to its lack of engine performance. Still, I think it looks great and other than limited cornering clearance a bike I would not mind owning. Brakes were similar to those on the R1 IIRC. Engine was based on the one from the DragStar 1100, which again was based on the Virago 1100, which was a bored and stroked Virago 750. According to some who have a lot of experience with all these engines, the BT1100 was the least reliable, but I cannot verify that.

[faffi]

I think a stock 650 Seca came on the podium in a 24hr race in Canada. It was a good handler, limited by too soft suspension and heavy shaft drive reaction.

The 750 and 650 had exactly the same drive train and gearing. I owned a 750, and the reactions from the shaft drive was horrendous, completely locking the suspension under full acceleration in the two lower gears. And dropping the rear dramatically under trailing throttle. And the suspension was harsh, front and rear, and the front brake numb thanks to the master being operated via cable. Cornering clearance was OK, but far from great. Pegs went down early, followed by stands and exhaust. Engine vibrations were really pronounced, but it was very flexible; full throttle from 1000 rpm in 5th gear was a piece of cake the one time I tried.

In Europe, the 900 sold extremely well and was made through 1994. In 1984, after they stopped making the Seca, they released a 750 in the same guise as the 900, but it was dropped after two years due to lack of sales, probably a result of the arrival of the FZ750. In 1985, IIRC, capacity of the 900 was increased to 891cc. The 650 Seca sold really well here at first, but did not stay on after the XJ600 (FJ600 in USA) arrived.

Impressively, the 900 was lighter than the Honda CB900F, despite the shaft drive.