1935 GTS

[Dave Swanson]

For those that don't know here's a short recap about this bike.

It is a Guzzi 1935 GTS 500cc model built just 14 years after Moto Guzzi began.   

It had spent its life in Europe until it was shipped to the 2016 Vegas Mecum auction from Germany.  A fellow in Northern CA bought it at the auction and after 5 years of ownership decided to sell.  An acquaintance of the seller tipped me off that it was for sale. 

The picture makes it look a bit better than it really is.  It has imperfections and is a mix of repaint, with some evidence of original paint here and there.  It is not so perfect that you might be afraid to ride it which I like, because it is very fun to ride.

The California owner had it on display during his tenure of custodianship. He never rode it or even started it until he decided to sell it.  He added oil and gas and it started on the 2nd kick.   

I have always been amazed at just how well this bike runs.  The German restorer had it sorted quite well.  It is always a risk buying an auction bike, but this one worked out.

I moved it onto the lift today for some periodic maintenance. 

I wish I knew more about the history.  I bet there's some tales to tell. 

[turboguzzi]

Wow, exactly what im after.... a prewar bike with rear suspension.... might have to settle with a Falcone at the end....

Piaggio has a dating service (not cheap) they will often tell you who was the dealer it was sent to...so at least a start.

in the mean time, heres something for your docs collection

https://www.rpw.it/Files/Guzzi_depliant_1935-36-37-38.pdf

[Dave Swanson]

Wow, exactly what im after.... a prewar bike with rear suspension.... might have to settle with a Falcone at the end....

Piaggio has a dating service (not cheap) they will often tell you who was the dealer it was sent to...so at least a start.

in the mean time, heres something for your docs collection

https://www.rpw.it/Files/Guzzi_depliant_1935-36-37-38.pdf

That is great!  Thanks for that.  I did not have it.   I just may contact Piaggio. 

Here's a little video for you.

https://youtu.be/e4EPWc4_NPo?si=HGq5kw6PSfsKub0f

[guzzisteve]

More reliable than a V100!!

[chuck peterson]

Here's a little video for you.

https://youtu.be/e4EPWc4_NPo?si=HGq5kw6PSfsKub0f
[/quote]

Sounds just like my grandfather’s Allis-Chambers (sp?) TRACTOR!! And we wonder how Guzzi became known as having tractor like motors…

Such a distinctive and regal color combo too

On the much later Cali III full fairing that color was called Merlot. The chrome and pinstripes are stunning

Having one 50 yr old bike, i wonder who will be my successor at taking care of it. This at 90 years old….wow

[turboguzzi]

Very sweet bike. looks like a regal ride.

and boy, seen your other bikes, good on ya'!

there is a link to the data request form at the bottom of this page.

https://wide.piaggiogroup.com/en/articles/garage/moto-guzzi-vintage-how-to-request-documents-from-the-factory-archives/index.html

[Anomaly]

Wow, exactly what im after.... a prewar bike with rear suspension.... might have to settle with a Falcone at the end....

What's your budget? I saw this (below). I suppose it depends also on your definition of "rear suspension"...
https://www.subito.it/moto-e-scooter/moto-guzzi-pe-250-treviso-613413302.htm

edit: or, this! But, again, do springs on the rear of the seat count as rear suspension??
https://www.subito.it/moto-e-scooter/moto-guzzi-sport-15-sassari-640051976.htm

[turboguzzi]

What's your budget? I saw this (below). I suppose it depends also on your definition of "rear suspension"...
https://www.subito.it/moto-e-scooter/moto-guzzi-pe-250-treviso-613413302.htm

edit: or, this! But, again, do springs on the rear of the seat count as rear suspension??
https://www.subito.it/moto-e-scooter/moto-guzzi-sport-15-sassari-640051976.htm

Thanks Anomaly
Im in Milan, where in Tuscany are you?
Im pretty tall, so those small 250 are really cramped for me. And i like to do long rallies..... a PE250 can maybe do 60 km/h... so itll have to be a 500... :)


Springs on the seat is not suspension, well, at least not in my book. 

I of course look in subito and other european sites all the time!
If you have a lot of cash, beautiful bikes are always there, but im looking for a bike to ride, so prefer a imperfect or even unrestored bike that i dont mind putting kilometers on. Im classic bike user, not a collector.
But then of course it has to be at a lower price than 12,000-15,000.
If you look in subito, youll see that a lot of the expensive bikes are there for 8, 10, 12 months without selling.
 

[PeteS]

Beautiful bike Dave! Do you plan one of your pristine restorations or just ride it? I am curious what keeps the rear wheel on the ground? Are there springs in those dampers?

Pete

[Dave Swanson]

Beautiful bike Dave! Do you plan one of your pristine restorations or just ride it? I am curious what keeps the rear wheel on the ground? Are there springs in those dampers?

Pete

I have considered giving it a high end restoration which it richly deserves, but I also like it just as it is.  It functions perfectly and I am not scared to ride it as is.  If I was to go down the restoration rabbit hole the list of things to do would be endless.

The rear springs are under the bike.  HD stole the idea for their Softail suspension.   

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Beautiful bike Dave! Do you plan one of your pristine restorations or just ride it? I am curious what keeps the rear wheel on the ground? Are there springs in those dampers?

Pete

http://www.ingegneriadepoca.com/pagine.web/inglese/telaistica.htm

[PeteS]

Interesting, thank you!

Pete

[Dave Swanson]

Beautiful bike Dave! Do you plan one of your pristine restorations or just ride it?

Pete

Ab opportune moment, as a few of my riding buddies were over for a bench racing session on just this subject tonight.  In essence, to restore on not restore?

Since it is not an original paint bike the freedom to give it a proper restoration would not raise any eyebrows amongst the originality police.

It is old enough, rare enough, and special enough to more that deserve a correct high end restoration.

As nice as the bike is, there are plenty of "shortcomings" that would need to be corrected during a full-on restoration. 

If any bike deserves the "full Monty" this one certainly does. 

There is also something special about the way it is in its current state.  Undefinable, but it just has that something special in its current flawed state. 

Do I leave it to the next caretaker to make this decision or do I give it the love it deserves?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Ab opportune moment, as a few of my riding buddies were over for a bench racing session on just this subject tonight.  In essence, to restore on not restore?

Since it is not an original paint bike the freedom to give it a proper restoration would not raise any eyebrows amongst the originality police.

It is old enough, rare enough, and special enough to more that deserve a correct high end restoration.

As nice as the bike is, there are plenty of "shortcomings" that would need to be corrected during a full-on restoration. 

If any bike deserves the "full Monty" this one certainly does. 

There is also something special about the way it is in its current state.  Undefinable, but it just has that something special in its current flawed state. 

Do I leave it to the next caretaker to make this decision or do I give it the love it deserves?

I'd leave it. The wabi sabi is strong with it. 

Wabi-sabi is a Japanese aesthetic and philosophical concept finding beauty in imperfection, impermanence, and the natural cycle of growth and decay. It centers on embracing flawed, rustic, and weathered objects, seeing them as authentic reflections of life’s transience. It finds value in simplicity and the "patina of age".

[wirespokes]

I like that viewpoint, Charlie!

You know, rather than a full restoration, a refresh might be a better option. Fix What's funky. Make things right. Leave the patina - it's gorgeous as is. No need to replace any bearings, bushings or seals, unless needed.

[Anomaly]

OK, here you go-- one year older than Dave's and an indication of the value of these beauties:
https://www.subito.it/moto-e-scooter/moto-guzzi-gtv-gts-500-1934-pezzo-unico-prototipo-varese-639771056.htm

[PeteS]

How fast do these go? That front brake doesn’t inspire much confidence.

Pete

[Dave Swanson]

OK, here you go-- one year older than Dave's and an indication of the value of these beauties:
https://www.subito.it/moto-e-scooter/moto-guzzi-gtv-gts-500-1934-pezzo-unico-prototipo-varese-639771056.htm

Thats a most interesting bike!  Here is the translation of the ad.

A one-of-a-kind piece—the only one in the world!!!!!
This is the "Prototype" of the very first twin-tube Guzzi model series produced before World War II. This motorcycle serves as the prelude to the mass-produced twin-tube models—including those from 1948—and was originally registered on April 25, 1934 (a date on which no motorcycle in Italy can ever be registered again). Only 2,000 units were produced in the series that followed this prototype—a fact underscored by its unique green color! However, only a few dozen are estimated to remain in circulation today. The motorcycle is completely original, fully functional, and has just undergone a complete service; it features a new battery, still retains its ORIGINAL LICENSE PLATE, and holds the prestigious FMI Gold Plate certification!!!!!!!
For true connoisseurs only—no time-wasters, please. The price is slightly negotiable (though only marginally).

Search the entire web—across Italy, Europe, and the world—and you will NOT find another one like it!!!!! Because this was the very first one ever made... A true MUSEUM PIECE!!!!

[Dave Swanson]

How fast do these go? That front brake doesn’t inspire much confidence.

Pete

Mine will cruise comfortably at 40 mph.  I have never tried to find out the top speed.  I ride in its own comfort zone.  The brakes are adequate. 

[turboguzzi]

Saw that ad, its an outlier, quite a few GTS, GTV, in the 10-12K euro range,

and thats what people request.... what they actualy sell for nowadays is another story

proof in hand, same guy published SAME bike in september, asking 25K ;)

https://www.subito.it/moto-e-scooter/moto-guzzi-gtv-gts-500-1934-pezzo-unico-prototipo-varese-617612974.htm

if you follow prices, auction results, etc. youll see that classic bikes prices are just not holding. Classic Bike UK talks about it all the time.

Not enough new blood wanting this kind of things anymore. in Subito i counted dozens of 1950s-1960s Falcones on offer. Dont think there are dozens of potential new owners with a wad of cash burning  a hole in their pocket having a go at them