My old man riding era

[YellowDuck]

Been mostly riding the V85 Strada this season, and my partner, who is new to riding, has been using my V7 850.  It's actually not a terrible starter bike, especially because of the low seat height, and the torquey motor that is naturally anti-stall, but otherwise not scary powerful.

Yesterday I was getting ready to head off for a ride, and saw the V7 sitting there and thought, heck, let's take her for a spin - we need to reconnect.

I was astonished at how different it was to the V85 that I am now used to.  Of course it is physically tiny in comparison, but the biggest difference is the suspension!  Holy cow.  It has Shock Factory rear shocks sprung for compliance, and Matris cartridges in the forks, but wow does it ever bounce around all over the place over the sketchy asphalt covering most of the rural roads around here.

The V85 just sucks up the bumps, and I guess I have gotten used to the relative luxury.  I am actually annoyed by the V7 now, with how busy it is.  The relatively weak brakes on the V7 are a big difference as well, as is the heavy clutch pull.  But mostly it's the suspension.

I never really understood the ADV bike trend, but I guess at 58, I have grown into it.  I get it now.  It's so much better for me than the V7 at this point in my riding career.  For sure I have gotten soft.

I guess the next transition is another 10 or 15 years from now, when I am too old and physically weak to push such a heavy, tall bike around the garage.  I plan to pile on as many miles as possible between now and then.

[Perazzimx14]

Long travel suspension is a thing of beauty and wonderment. I don’t care to ride bike w/o it.

[TN Mark]

Sounds like the aftermarket V7 suspension hasn’t been set up properly for you.

[faffi]

In my limited experience, the quality and tuning of the suspension is more important than travel. Of course, having brilliant suspension with extra travel will bring with it the ability to absorb bigger bumps, but how many really bumpy roads do most of us encounter?

Anyway, here are two examples from bikes I have owned. First, the 1987 Tenere. It has 10 inches of travel up front, 9 in the back. It was very softly sprung and damped. And very uncomfortable over bumps. Especially washboards, which could only be tolerated standing up. Standing up made the suspension work OK.

Second, the BMW F800ST set up with Ohlins shock and cartridge fork inserts, both upgrades from stock by a previous owner. The suspension flattened just about any- and everything the wheels rolled over, despite only 5.5 inches of travel at both ends. Best suspension I have every had the pleasure of experiencing. It was firm-ish, or should I say controlled?, but never harsh.

Third, Honda NT650V Deauville. In stock form, with standard preload on the rear shock, the ride was not too bad, but bouncy and it would bottom over bigger bumps or under hard braking. After cutting off 25% of the fork springs (the soft portion) and upping the shock preload to max, and also using thicker fork oil and raising the oil level, the suspension was very comfortable and offered decent control. Not BMW good, but still very good, despite only 4.5 inches travel up front and 4.7 inches in the rear.

Finally, of the examples I will present, is my friend's BMW K1300S with active suspension. He likes his bikes to ride firmly, so the suspension was adjusted to Sport. I immediately disliked the suspension, because every little grain of sand or the tiniest pebble was transmitted to me. While trying to find the knob in oder to adjust the suspension to a comfy mode, I did not pay enough attention to the road. Suddenly, I saw a rather big bump just in front of me, with no time to divert. This was when I had the Deauville mentioned above, but before modifying the suspension, and instinctively I braced for a massive jolt. To my surprise, the Beemer just absorbed the bump like it would a pebble. That was an eye-opener. And it did this despite just 4.5 inches of front wheel travel, 5.3 inches aft.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Old man of 58.. 
Grumbling and shuffling off. 

[kingoffleece]

Exacally.  From years of experience here.  Quality components set up incorrectly always underwhelm.  Take the time to set it up correctly, assuming the spring rates are correct nto begin with.

That said, the as delivered V85 is among the better Guzzis to leave the factory.  The stock stuff is very competent for regular riding.

[blu guzz]

I am working through setting up a Jim Hamlin modified fork that came on my new to me V9 Roamer.  There is no real substitute for taking time. I have spent 2 months and I believe I have achieved the best setting for me.  Many of my bikes have had aftermarket suspensions including Ohlins on a K1200 BMW. They always strike me as very firm at first, but then they are firm like BMW's cars in that they allow the bike to be much more stable when going over bad roads. What you should notice is the lack of bottoming and topping of the suspension over really bad stuff ideally resulting in one movement instead of several for the suspension to stabilize. 
Having said all that, neither this bike nor any other I have had matched the ride on my departed and missed V85.  Just my experience.

[faffi]

Sounds like the 85TT is well dialed in from the factory, and that the rave in the press was well placed.

[PeteS]

Old man of 58.. 
Grumbling and shuffling off. 

Thats what I was thinking. In 15 years he will be all of 73. A whipper snapper around here.
As for the V85 being setup from the factory, mine was like a buckboard. An Ohlins fixed the back end, and the front has been gradually improving to where its at least tolerable. Your opinion depends a lot on the roads you ride on.

Pete

[YellowDuck]

Sounds like the aftermarket V7 suspension hasn’t been set up properly for you.

I kinda doubt that's the problem.  I have accumulated a little bit of experience modifying and adjusting suspension, both for track riding and for the street.  For me on the track it is generally about getting enough spring and / or preload that I still have some travel left during long full-lean corners and full-effort braking, and then playing with rebound settings for whatever feel I like - generally I prefer slower rebound for a more buttoned-down feel, especially at the front, to avoid wheelies when transitioning from cornering in one direction to the other on the gas.  Just enough damping to control that, and no more.  That's my sweet spot.

Street riding is completely different.  I am really after compliance, rather than control, prioritizing comfort.  Almost all OEM suspension comes over-sprung, especially at the rear, because it has to accommodate a passenger at least in theory.  I find that even after-market suspension suppliers will over-spring the rear for this reason.  My evidence for this is that to get sag to around 1/3 of travel, I usually need to back the preload all the way off.  On my RE 650, the only time I ever felt like the OEM shocks were working properly was when I had a passenger aboard.  I weigh 200 lbs, for reference.  On both that bike with YSS shocks, as well as the 2Win units from Shock Factory on the V7, I ended up installing lighter springs so that I could access a greater % of the available travel.  It was an improvement in both cases.

With the Shock Factory units, there is only one damping adjustment, which affects both compression and rebound.  So, if you get the springing and preload set so that you are using lots of the travel but never topping out or bottoming out, then experimenting with the entire range of damping settings is a one-dimensional problem.  It's not like you have 2700 different combinations of rebound, high speed compression, and low speed compression.  This is my long-winded way of trying to convince you that I left no stone unturned in trying to optimize the setup on the 2Wins. 

The Matris fork cartridges are impressive.  As delivered, with their recommended preload settings, the sag was exactly 1/3.  Also, I experimented plenty with the damping settings (both compression and rebound), but never found a setup that was obviously better than the baseline they recommended.  But while they are a significant improvement over stock, they still don't make the front end of the V7 noticeably better then what came stock on the V85, at least for the type of riding I do, on the types of roads where I do it.

Apologies to all of the old(er) farts for suggesting that 58 is on the downslope.  It may be for me but not for you! Ride on.

 

[Bulldog9]

I kinda doubt that's the problem.  I have accumulated a little bit of experience modifying and adjusting suspension, both for track riding and for the street.  For me on the track it is generally about getting enough spring and / or preload that I still have some travel left during long full-lean corners and full-effort braking, and then playing with rebound settings for whatever feel I like - generally I prefer slower rebound for a more buttoned-down feel, especially at the front, to avoid wheelies when transitioning from cornering in one direction to the other on the gas.  Just enough damping to control that, and no more.  That's my sweet spot.

Street riding is completely different.  I am really after compliance, rather than control, prioritizing comfort.  Almost all OEM suspension comes over-sprung, especially at the rear, because it has to accommodate a passenger at least in theory.  I find that even after-market suspension suppliers will over-spring the rear for this reason.  My evidence for this is that to get sag to around 1/3 of travel, I usually need to back the preload all the way off.  On my RE 650, the only time I ever felt like the OEM shocks were working properly was when I had a passenger aboard.  I weigh 200 lbs, for reference.  On both that bike with YSS shocks, as well as the 2Win units from Shock Factory on the V7, I ended up installing lighter springs so that I could access a greater % of the available travel.  It was an improvement in both cases.

With the Shock Factory units, there is only one damping adjustment, which affects both compression and rebound.  So, if you get the springing and preload set so that you are using lots of the travel but never topping out or bottoming out, then experimenting with the entire range of damping settings is a one-dimensional problem.  It's not like you have 2700 different combinations of rebound, high speed compression, and low speed compression.  This is my long-winded way of trying to convince you that I left no stone unturned in trying to optimize the setup on the 2Wins. 

The Matris fork cartridges are impressive.  As delivered, with their recommended preload settings, the sag was exactly 1/3.  Also, I experimented plenty with the damping settings (both compression and rebound), but never found a setup that was obviously better than the baseline they recommended.  But while they are a significant improvement over stock, they still don't make the front end of the V7 noticeably better then what came stock on the V85, at least for the type of riding I do, on the types of roads where I do it.

Apologies to all of the old(er) farts for suggesting that 58 is on the downslope.  It may be for me but not for you! Ride on.

 

FWIW, more rebound damping Will cause her bike to follow the road imperfections and dips even more. The lower the rebound damping or the faster the suspension can rebound. It keeps the tire better connected to the road and allows the bike to ride more level to the bumps because the tire travels down faster. Higher rebound damping means a slower response and therefore the motorcycle will pitch back and forth. Try backing off the rebound damping and you may find the V7 is far more compliant with less pitching. That said, the V85 is fantastic out of the box.

I have the stock forks with Ktech springs and the Guzzi Bitubo shocks in the rear. Is definitely stiffer than the v85, but is extremely competent and compliant. One day I'll bite the bullet and drop a set of matris inserts in the front fork.

Because I spent the last 25 years of my life with the majority of the people around me being between 18 and 35, I always thought I was the old guy. But after hanging around with these old geezers I'm  relatively young at 62.