time to bleed the Norge again

[atavar]

Well, spring is here and the Norge is doing great with the mild exception of a wimpy rear brake so I guess it's time to bleed the rear system again. 
I have been incommunicado with the community for a couple of years.  Have there been any breakthroughs on the issue of the norge rear brake?  better ways to bleed it or perhaps even ways to keep the system from getting mushy a few times a year?

[guzzisteve]

Haven't noticed any new fangled contraptions for the process. Just run the abs pump. Activating is supposed to help.

[Vasco DG]

The only *Fix* I've heard about for this problem is to hang something like half a brick off the brake pedal when the bike is parked up. Why air should get into the system when it is in an 'Open' state I have no idea but I do have a couple of customers who have found employing this trick prevented the 'Soggy Brake' issue.

That isn't to say you need to carry something around to hang off it every time you stop. Just if the bike is going to be left unridden for a few days or more. It's certainly a weird one.

Pete

[atavar]

Haven't noticed any new fangled contraptions for the process. Just run the abs pump. Activating is supposed to help.

Do you mean bleed, then force ABS by jamming the brake, then bleed again? 

[atavar]

It is almost midnight, so I'm not going to bleed the brakes now, but as Grandpa always said - "if you don't know what to do then do something" so i jammed a plastic handle screwdriver in the works holding significant brake pressure on the lever.  We'll see if that makes a difference before I bleed this tomorrow.

[Waterbottle]

The only *Fix* I've heard about for this problem is to hang something like half a brick off the brake pedal when the bike is parked up. Why air should get into the system when it is in an 'Open' state I have no idea but I do have a couple of customers who have found employing this trick prevented the 'Soggy Brake' issue.

That isn't to say you need to carry something around to hang off it every time you stop. Just if the bike is going to be left unridden for a few days or more. It's certainly a weird one.

Pete

This reminds of shitty front brakes on Z9's and Zukies , No amount of Bleeding would ever result in a hard lever. The fix was to pump up the brake, hold it in hard and wrap a bungee cord around the lever and grip and leave it overnight. Release Sloooowly in the morning and Hey Presto ..... Good brakes. Maybe the pressure compresses the tiny air bubbles small enough that they migrate back to the master cylinder ??? Anyway it works  ;)
So a weight on the pedal overnight should or could be your answer   ??? Report back

[Scott of the Sahara]

I have hung a weight off of the brake lever with pretty good results. Except when I forgot to take the weight off and I was almost on the freeway when I noticed it...
Last fall I replaced all of the brake fluid. I think they may still be a bit mushy.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I have hung a weight off of the brake lever with pretty good results. Except when I forgot to take the weight off and I was almost on the freeway when I noticed it...
Last fall I replaced all of the brake fluid. I think they may still be a bit mushy.

If you have a heavy enough weight to do the job, the bike isn't going to move. I used a machine vise, around 20 lbs. Regarding the ABS pump, I read on a French forum I think it was.. to bleed the rear with the ABS active. Of course, that would mean starting it up and riding it, leaving it running while bleeding the brake.  ::) I never tried that one. I've used the "keeping pressure on the system overnight" for years, though, and it just plain works.. for what ever reason.
For instance.. from the Lario Rehab thread..
Spongy lever pulled up as tight as I can get it..

The next day, Hard as a Rock, and Ready to (not) Roll.  ;D

[atavar]

Well, after spending the night with pressure on the brake is was better - but not great - so I went ahead and bled the brake.  Being lazy I connected a collection bottle to the bleeder fitting.  This makes things much less messy.  The other trick that makes things *much* easier with the Norge is to put brake fluid in a translucent catsup bottle with a chunk of fishtank tubing on the snout for refilling the reservoir. 


So I started the bleed and EEK!  WTF is that purple crap?  there were plenty of bubbles but there was also this really strange collection of purple globules in the fluid that was coming out of the master cylinder, sorta like a tiny lava lamp.  Is this a moisture indicator or something?


In any case the brakes are bled and feel better.

[JeffOlson]

I do not understand why this problem cannot be fixed once and for all. I am no mechanic, but is this really rocket science? Is this really something that engineers and mechanics cannot solve?

Over many decades, whenever I have experienced this problem, it was always due to air in the brake lines or, more often than not, a faulty master cylinder. What is the real problem here? (I want to know because I, too, have a Norge, and this sort of problem without a non-makeshift solution would be entirely unacceptable to me.)

[atavar]

The problem is that with the early ABS Norges the air somehow gets in to the rear brake system on a regular basis.  I too am surprised that there has not been a solution to this recurring problem. 

[John Ulrich]

I do not understand why this problem cannot be fixed once and for all. I am no mechanic, but is this really rocket science? Is this really something that engineers and mechanics cannot solve?

Don't forget.....You are dealing with a Moto Guzzi.   ;D

[atavar]

Does anyone have any idea what the purple stuff is?

[Vasco DG]

Not a clue! Different type of brake fluid maybe?

As for the "Why can't you find an answer? This is entirely unacceptable!" Brigade? Well, it's really quite simple. It defies logic so we, or at least I, am flummoxed. If you have any bright ideas how a sealed system can become contaminated while not giving any signs of leakage I'm all ears! Just shouting and saying its 'Unacceptable' is childish and contributes precisely nothing to the conversation so thanks for that!

Pete

[JeffOlson]

I meant no offense. I simply wanted to know why this situation has not been resolved. Others may be fine using a brick or some other work around, but I am not...

[old as dirt 2]

on the MP3's we have found bleeding from the bottom up is best, this eliminates even tiny air bubbles.  you have to be careful with the master cyl. and remove fluid often to not have it go everywhere. some guys bought new master cal. caps and fitted a bleed nipple to them. this way they could  run a hse straight to a empty bottle. I still found it was just as easy to use a turkey baster to periodically remove some fluid.

on the zip tie trick. save the zip ties and use a piece of velcro.  easy to carry with and never have to worry about cutting the tie off and possiby nicking the grips by accident.

[dilligaf]

Sooner or later a mechanic in a MG shop will figure out what is going on and come up with a fix.  Then the factory rep will show up, for  well what ever factory rep show up for, and the mechanic will show the rep the fix.  Then the rep will tell everyone else and be the hero.  ::(  :BEER:
Matt

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sooner or later a mechanic in a MG shop will figure out what is going on and come up with a fix.  Then the factory rep will show up, for  well what ever factory rep show up for, and the mechanic will show the rep the fix.  Then the rep will tell the factory and it will fall on deaf ears.  ::(  :BEER:
Matt

FTFY