2007 Norge Engine wants to die

[lemanorge]

Last week rode a hundred miles no issues.

Yesterday took off for a 130 miles of riding and when rolling up to a stop sign, with the clutch held in, the engine  stopped.  This was about 5 miles from the house. I hit the start switch and if started back up. I twisted the throttle and after a brief hesitation, it began acting normally. I suspected maybe old gas since I am running out the full tank of gas I parked it with last year. I made the rest of the trip with no issues.

Today, I refueled it and rode 65 miles at speed, and all seemed well. Then when I got into traffic on the interstate, it died while going 35 miles and hour. It restarted after hitting the start switch and completed the ride no issues.

Any ideas what might be happening?

Thanks!

[Vasco DG]

It's probably not tuned properly.

Any modifications?

Pete

[lemanorge]

It's probably not tuned properly.

Any modifications?

Pete

Negative.  I do have the VDSTS that was sold on guzzi tech a few years back.  I cant find the manual for it. Maybe I  can hook that up or the guzzi diagnosis and see if they offer any insight

[atavar]

My Norge sometimes does the same thing.  As mentioned in other posts try cycling the kill switch before starting.  It seems to help.  I have no idea why, maybe placebic or time for ecu to settle.

[Graham UK]

My Breva 1100 was doing exactly the same thing.  Friends suggested it was the TPS (throttle position sensor).  I took it to my local Guzzi dealer who quickly sorted the problem; he said all he did was adjust the tickover.  I'm not sure how helpful that is to you, but be reassured this is a common problem, and easily sorted by those who know how.

[atavar]

OK, I'll bite, what's a "tickover"?

[Vasco DG]

My Breva 1100 was doing exactly the same thing.  Friends suggested it was the TPS (throttle position sensor).  I took it to my local Guzzi dealer who quickly sorted the problem; he said all he did was adjust the tickover.  I'm not sure how helpful that is to you, but be reassured this is a common problem, and easily sorted by those who know how.

(Groan!) 'Tickover' is what most of us would refer to as idle. The idle speed is hard coded into the W5AM ECU and is NOT ADJUSTABLE. DO NOT TRY AND ADJUST THE IDLE SPEED. The speed is controlled by the 'Stepper motor' it's an air-over-idle system.

If the bike is dying when it comes to rest the most likely cause is that the tune is wrong. See if both the air bleeds are open. My guess is they will be. The solution is to get the bike serviced and tuned correctly.

Pete

[geezerboy]

 Had very similar thing happen on my 07 norge . For no apparent reason engine quit while riding and easily restarted and continued ride without issue . Thought little of it as it happened two times in a month and a half . Took a trip with the bride on back to western Pennsylvania and on he last of 4 days the bike would start up and die within 40 seconds . Eventually killed the battery restarting constantly . It was a Sunday , many miles from any dealer . Called my dealer in Derry , N.H. and he tried to assist over the phone bit there are dead people with greater mechanical skills than I .
  Rented a car , left bike in parking lot , drove home , dropped off bride , drove 80 miles to brother's house to pick up trailer . Drove to Pa to pick up bike . drove to dealer to drop bike off . Drove back to brothers and dropped off trailer , then drove home . A not too pleasant 930 mile day .
  Dealer reported problem with dirt/corrosion on ecu . Cleaned said unit and have not had the issue repeat in 3 years . Unfortunately the bride no longer trusts the norgie and refuses to ride on it . Sorry for the long winded response but hope it helps .

 geezerboy

[lemanorge]

Sorry haven't responded. Took some of your advice and got a ride report.

Rode from Indiana to Iowa to take bike to former dealer who sold bike to me to look at. Stayed on mostly Interstate 74. The situation happened once. Its almost like the throttle just closes, the engine begins to slow under load, then it decides to give itself fuel again.

At the dealer, had throttle bodies reset, had him do a full service on it. He said he didn't like the way it was idling, so he adjusted it. Sounded like it was getting air into the system around the throttle bodies. Said he could move them by touch slightly and the idle would change.

Well, on the way home across Illinois jumped off the highway to run on two lanes. Everything was ok UNTIL we stopped for lunch. As I rolled into the parkings spot the bike died. Then after we got back on the road, the bike would, about every 5 miles, do the same thing, react just as if I had let go of the throttle, which I didnt. My usual reaction was to close the throttle before, and the engine would die. if I held the throttle at the same position the bike would fire back up but i hated the feel of that engine suddenly coming under power with load on it. If I did roll up on a stop sign, I would expect it to die, and it would. Finally I filled the bike up and put her back on the highway for 200 miles nonstop to get her home. It was 90 degrees and muggy out for both trips.

[atavar]

The throttle bodies being loose is a condition that needs to be fixed before you go any further.  I am amazed the dealer didn't take care of that before sending you on your way. 

[lemanorge]

Is there a chance that the throttle bodies being out of sync could cause this issue?

My dealer said they needed resynced and did that for me.

I hooked up a diagnostic before I went over there and the TPS reading was 4.7, but if I held the throttle wide open, it read 86%.  This would have been prior to the dealer visit.

Now I hooked up the diagnostic (VDSTS) and am getting a TPS reading of 2.6, but the throttle bodies should be synced now.

Wondering if I just reset the TPS, which I thought was supposed to be at 4.5-4.7 if that would fix or help or do nothing.

[bratman2]

You need to reset the TPS. Looks as if he synced TB and did not reset TPS.

[oldbike54]

OK, I'll bite, what's a "tickover"?

 What happens when one is overcome by ticks  Seriously , English term for idle speed .

  Dusty

[Vasco DG]

Whoa! Hold on a minute! Don't touch anything yet.

We're you around when the bike was being worked on? Was it ever plugged in to any form of diagnostic scan tool?  The fact that the TPS reading is now 2.6 should flag alarm bells. When the TPS is re-set it can only end up at what it's supposed to be, in the case of your bike 4.6. If the reading isn't 4.6 then either the throttle bodies have been balanced but the TPS hasn't been re-set or the idle stop screw has been messed with.

Before you do ANYTHING you need to find out what has been done. Check that the paint is still intact on the throttle stop screw. Get hold of a manometer and check the throttle body balance. Ensure that the linkage rod hasn't been messed with. This has nothing to do with the original problem but if any of these things have been messed with it is vital that you establish what and how so the screw-ups can be un-screwed!

On the original problem? You say that it was hot when the problem occurred? I'd definitely go in and re-check the valve clearances again. It could be that a Tappet is riding the cam when the engine gets very hot leading to the stalling.

First things first though. It DEFINITELY isn't tuned properly so it sounds like whoever worked on it doesn't understand how the system works. You have to get that right before you go any further so,

1.) Re set the valves.

2.) Establish if the idle stop screw has been messed with or the linkage. See if both air bleeds are open or closed.

3.) If the paint on the LH throttle stop screw has been disturbed DO NOT re-calibrate the TPS until we've had a chance to try and un-f#ck what has been messed with. Hopefully the RH stop screw will be untouched.

4.) You can't 'Adjust the idle', it's hard coded into the ECU and stepper controlled. Another worrying pointer to the idle stop screw having been messed with.

Pete

[Vasco DG]

Bump.

Any resolution on this yet?

Pete

[rodekyll]

Also -- it is impossible to balance/synch with air leaks at the throttle bodies.  Those leaks must be fixed along with the other baseline settings.  If the band clamps on the rubbers have been overtightened they will crack the rubbers.  I've seen folks smear ATV on the cracks with the engine running to try to pull the gel into the cracks.  Sometimes it helps, but it's not a substitute for uncracked rubbers.

[beetle]

At the dealer, had throttle bodies reset, had him do a full service on it. He said he didn't like the way it was idling, so he adjusted it.

Bingo. There is no way to adjust the idle mechanically. If he has adjusted the idle by moving the throttle stop you are buggered. If you have since reset the TPS you are completely buggered.

If you haven't futzed with anything else, we can possibly save you.

[Vasco DG]

If the RH throttle stop hasn't been messed with I think Lucian's re-calibration method will probably work OK. If it has been messed with it gets a lot harder but it *is* possible to get the TB's very close again. It's just a lot more work. If the owner isn't confident in his abilities to fix it the best bet would probably be to buy a second hand set of TB's off fleabay but make sure they haven't been messed with as well.

Pete