Breva 1100 tuning to eliminate pinging. Suggestions? (GuzziDiag content)

[Doppelgaenger]

Hi everyone, I'm trying to tune the pinging out of my Breva 1100.

It pings only at full throttle and only when it's quite hot. I have been doing this with someone who has the equipment and the software and knows what they are doing to an extent. But the bike can be counted on to pi

So far we did manage to get the bike to not ping by retarding the spark by 2 degrees above 41 degrees of throttle opening, adjusting the fuel trim up by 25 and leaving the bike in open loop. The problem with that tune is that the bike reeks of fuel at all times and average MPG dropped from about 30 to 24. The bike ran noticeably cooler with this map

We next took away the fuel trim and set it back to 0 but kept the retard in the spark. The bike is now back in closed loop too. This has had the effect of actually increasing my avg fuel economy to about 36 (yeah I know one tankful isn't representative) the bike feels livelier too. The problem is that when very hot it pings again, and with temps up in the 80s now the bike is like sitting on top of a goddamn stovepipe when riding around town.

I need to get this thing to stop pinging. What is the point of having something as fun as a guzzi when you can't explore all the fun???!!!

Suggestions to try for the next time we try to adjust the tune?

[Vasco DG]

OK. More info. Who is supplying the maps and advice?

Pete

[molly]

Assuming the bike is set up properly I would start again with the factory map with the lambda switched off. Then using Guzzidiag/TunerPro edit the 'Fuel engine temp correction' and 'Ignition engine correction' tables only. If you notice these tables retard the spark and weaken the mixture for high engine temps.
Changing to cooler BPR8ES spark plugs won't do any harm either.

[Doppelgaenger]

OK. More info. Who is supplying the maps and advice?

Pete

A long time guzzi mechanic.

[Vasco DG]

A long time guzzi mechanic.

I see the sig line. I have no interest in other people's businesses. I do have an interest in getting Guzzis to run well.

PM me if you are interested in further help.

Pete

[Kev m]

This is EXACTLY the problem I chased on my B11 for years, except that it would do it with less that m than WOT.

This was before Guzzidiag had a map reader and writer, but Todd at Guzzitech managed to fix it with a much better map. Not only did the pinging stop but fuel economy increased on spirited rides and normal fuel economy stayed the same.

Perhaps he might be willing to share some tips.

Or perhaps the current owner of that B11 (Jas67) might be willing to give you a peek at that map for ideas.

[Doppelgaenger]

Success! so far... I hate to cry victory just yet but we got good results with a slightly modified Breva 1200 map.

The key to the pinging seems to be that the Breva 1100 map is running way too much advance real low in the rpm at high throttle settings. Where the Breva 1200 will have 12-14 degrees of advance, the 1100 will be running 18. So far we seem to have been successful in getting the pinging to stop and still maintain decent fuel consumption.

The guy I'm working with says this has been by far the hardest bike to tune that he's come across so far. We tried 7 maps plus a few other settings before we finally got it to behave.

Just FYI for posterity and for anyone who ends up at this post by search engine: Running the Breva 1100 in open loop is really not recommendable, it can be done, but it smells bad and gets horrible gas mileage., and there is a drop in power too that you don't notice that much, that is until you put it back into closed loop.

Still to come, we're going to do an experiment where the advance tables from the stock Breva 1200 are, used in the Breva 1100 map. I'll report when we have the results from this attempt

[pauldaytona]

which breva 110 map do you use? Try the whole breva 1200 map.
open or closed loop doesn't matter at 7k rpm.

 first you tell the problem is in high revs at high temps, then I read:
>the Breva 1100 map is running way too much advance real low in the rpm at high throttle settings
What is it now?

[Doppelgaenger]

I said full throttle at high temps.

The actual problem spot is between 3500 and 4500 rpm, the advance is too high at high throttle positions and there lies the ping, right in the most fun spot in the rev range.

In TunerPro you can actually see the problem spot as a reddish tinge at high throttle low rpms, this color is not present in the Breva 1200 map

[pauldaytona]

If your problem spot is in the 3500-4500 range, copy that part of the ignition map from the breva 1200 map and paste it there. Only need the part above the tps position from steady running. When I look in my logging, I have 10 degree at 3500 rpm and 15 degree at 4500 , and 12 and 15 at 4000


Other way would be, since it's only at high temperatures, to change the "Ignition Engine temp Correction" table.

When I look there I see when engine is 111 degrees or higher and tps is> 9 there is a reduction in degrees, maybe it needs more reduction or also at a lower temp range. You can try that in a few steps.

The norge map does it in the last 4 rows, so starting 2 earlier.
If you find it scary to edit maps, send me your actual map and I will make you a few to try.  pauldaytona at gmail.com