Got PIP (Personal Injury Protection)? Calling Insurane Experts

[bpreynolds]

I admit, I used to be better versed in this stuff, especially after my accident a couple years ago.  My attorney told me I should have carried PIP coverage (not mandated for motorcyclists in KY).  Because I didn't, the opposing insurance company - whose driver was clearly faulted in the report - said they didn't have to repay me (actually my health insurance company) the first ten grand in medical expenses - 10 grand is the minimum required PIP purchase in KY on cars.  Effectively they stated stated if I had carried PIP, the first 10k would have been covered immediately regardless of fault by that per se. 

But then last week - when my renewal notice arrived and I could clearly see in black and white that I'm paying more for PIP than I am for the whole of insurance policy in general, then I wanted to go back and revisit this issue that is possibly relevant to motorcyclists since most insurance companies don't even tell ya about PIP since it's not required for motorcyclists in the vast majority of States.

So I was relatively happy to carry it these last couple years; however, then I started to think about it a little and thought, "Huh.  So the PIP coverage is covering my own insurance more than it's covering me specifically since the ten grand in my accident wasn't taken out of my pocket but denied, rather, to my own personal health insurance company who readily took care of all my medical expenses.  Beyond the ten grand they were denied, they were paid back in full  through subrogation and due to the opposing driver's fault.  So again, it appears in this instance the PIP would have merely covered my own health insurance since it is them who were actually denied the first ten grand.  So I started to think about that a little.  So I pay for health insurance and then I'm paying for PIP too to mostly cover my health insurance in the event of an accident?  Likely I'm misunderstanding this??? 

So then I started to check into the other benefits - if there are any - to PIP.  It does offer that extra health coverage if in fact your own health coverage is not so great or runs out.  But my insurance is pretty great - provided through my local government - I'm a sexy librarian, remember? 

So then PIP does offer lost wages reimbursement if you're injured in an accident.  That's great but I have copious amounts of paid sick leave at my job if I need to use it.  Seriously, like the last 15 years I've got something like 4 months of paid sick leave built up and then if I were to burn through that, I could use then use the month or more I have in vacation leave too.  Pray I never had to.  So the lost wages coverage for me personally doesn't immediately seem valuable.  But hey, you get seriously injured and out of commission for more than 3 months then yeah, it does start to look like a drop in the bucket to pay for the very valuable benefits beyond my leave if injured. 

I'm checking to see if PIP offers some kind of special benefit to passengers per se.  Like does carrying PIP cover my wife in some special way that regular insurance wouldn't in the event of an accident? 

I'm certain there are other things I'm missing here so that's why I'm creating this poll post.  I went asking to my insurance company about this and I even went to the Kentucky Insurance Department.  About the only answers I keep getting are from attorneys and others who just keep saying, "Oh yeah, always carry as much as you can" which may be true but kinda annoys me - guess I'm the kinda guy who wants examples of "why" I should since you can readily hand over your entire income to insurance company if you just want to spend up the coverage.

The vast majority of motorcyclists DO NOT carry PIP.  It is speculated this is due to lack of knowledge about it and too the price.  PIP coverage is cheap for autos in KY because it is mandated; however, because it's not for bikes, it's super expensive.  As stated above, it is more than half of my total annual premium. 

So do you PIP or don't ya?

[HDGoose]

You need t talk to an insurance agent.

[rodekyll]

The only person I ever heard of that carried pips was Gladys Knight.  Some would argue it was the other way around.

[bpreynolds]

The only person I ever heard of that carried pips was Gladys Knight.  Some would argue it was the other way around.

Are you kidding me?  The PIPs would be a bad joke without her.

[Aaron D.]

Why pay for personal protection insurance if the things covered are already covered by existing insurance?

My recollection is such coverage can be actually illegal in some states-but in any event, it seems to be a waste. Insurance companies will deny any duplicate benefits whenever possible.

Lost wages-don't you have disability there too?

[toma nova]

Why pay for personal protection insurance if the things covered are already covered by existing insurance?

My recollection is such coverage can be actually illegal in some states-but in any event, it seems to be a waste. Insurance companies will deny any duplicate benefits whenever possible.

Lost wages-don't you have disability there too?

Same here - I have fantastic health insurance through work so PIP is redundant and may even cause a conflict with co-insurance (since two insurance companies may disagree about who has to pay what).  If you have good medical, PIP is a waste of premiums.  Better to put that toward un / under-insured which you are more likely to need.

Agree on lost wages too - check you short and long-term benefits, probably better than what PIP offers.

I always complain about insurance premiums, but now that we're in a medical situation that will cost several $100k, I'm thrilled that our co-pays are only $35.

Not so clear benefits yet for our teen driver premiums though.

Tom

[Cam Lay]

Helicopter ride exceeds $20K. Kid's ambulance trip exceeds $2K. Five days in ICU hasn't been billed yet. I didnt get to keep the bighorn sheep so we will have to buy a cow this year. Deductible on state-government insurance is 20% with a cap at $10K or $20K -- I'm not good with memory or numbers, yet, and don't recall. PT and other rehab hasn't started.

Rough estimate looks like it will take Progressive 25-30 years to break even on my injury coverage. Between USAA covering us during Hurricane Hugo and this, I'm making out like a bandit in this insurance thing. That's not serious, please note. The stories to tell arent worth the price. Not that I can remember anything anyway...

[Lannis]

Helicopter ride exceeds $20K. Kid's ambulance trip exceeds $2K. Five days in ICU hasn't been billed yet. I didnt get to keep the bighorn sheep so we will have to buy a cow this year. Deductible on state-government insurance is 20% with a cap at $10K or $20K -- I'm not good with memory or numbers, yet, and don't recall. PT and other rehab hasn't started.

Rough estimate looks like it will take Progressive 25-30 years to break even on my injury coverage. Between USAA covering us during Hurricane Hugo and this, I'm making out like a bandit in this insurance thing. That's not serious, please note. The stories to tell arent worth the price. Not that I can remember anything anyway...

So YOU'RE that guy.   I and my company paid in about $450,000 in insurance premiums in my life, and I've spent maybe $20,000.

I've paid $40,000 or so in car insurance and have never claimed anything .....

I knew there was someone out there leeching off of me .... 

Lannis

[rocker59]

The medical coverage add-on for motorcycle insurance is called "Medical Payment" in Arkansas and is capped at $5,000.

And I dropped it years ago because paying more than $130 for only $5,000 coverage seemed silly.

[oldbike54]

 Bipper , Kentucky has some weird laws  Insurance is a numbers game , and most of the time the providers have the advantage , although as Cam Lay's situation shows , a few customers do come out  ahead . Yes , find an expert in Kentucky Ins law .

  Dusty

[Kentktk]

I have VA Medical and Medicare, so hopefully something will be there if I crash.

Seriously, "hopefully" 

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Being a military retiree mean my medical is covered fully regardless of what the insurance thieves do.
 When I had my BAD experience with that deer 6 years ago, it was 750 for the ambulance to carry me a few hundred yards to where a helicopter life flight took me the next hundred miles to land me on the roof of Harbor View Hospital.  The flight would have cost 13,000.
 Emergency room fees and a week in intensive care followed by more hospital room service and then a month in a recovery facility, probably rang up the bill to more money than I had earned in my life.  The G.I. insurance and VA picked up the whole tab.
 I may have had some bad thoughts about service life but they certainly came through for me when I needed it most.
 They sent me a letter stating that they wanted to know who the other driver was and what insurance he had.
 I explained that I didn't know the name of the deer since he died before anyone could ask and I doubted that he carried insurance anyway.

[bpreynolds]

  Being a military retiree mean my medical is covered fully regardless of what the insurance thieves do.
 I may have had some bad thoughts about service life but they certainly came through for me when I needed it most.

  The way it should always be. 

[kingoffleece]

I've got every option for UIM/PIP/SUM etc. as I know from a friend firsthand what happens when it goes all south.
I also have the MedJet option thru the BMWMOA.  As a former professional diver I've seen folks chew up over 10K in emergency airlift events.  Away from home, which I do several times per year, the last thing I want to deal with is a mountain of paperwork and bills if I mess up.

Just one man's opinion, mind you, but I've seen enough "I was TOLD it was covered" but in fact was not to be very active with my insurance guy to know just what is and what is not covered.

[toaster404]

Tennessee - I had $5000 in medical payments each, which got chewed up with no deductible and no questions.  Even had the insurance guy ask me if I was sure there was no more medical work I needed because I had some left.  The company coordinated with my regular insurer.  So this type of issue never came up.  We did exceed the evac insurance level and ended up paying something like $500 for ambulance.  I keep thinking I really need some kind of evac insurance.  Can join or otherwise give $50/year to the local heli place and get your evac insurance, but I go all over, and it isn't universal. 

UIM is very important from what I can tell.  I've considered looking into that as a field to get into - forcing insurance companies to pay their insured.  I have heard several times about people told something was covered when it wasn't.  Am aware of a suit where the cheap insurance did not have general liability, and the liability suit for injuries in a motorcycle suit is for well into six figures. 

Another way to protect is to put one's personal assets into some vehicle, a trust or something.  Need a specialist.

[Orange Guzzi]

I am insured for everything.  Dead or alive.  For being bad, but not good. 

The problem I have with these policies is the fact that the Federal Government mandates that I buy health insurance for myself and family.
Since this is a Federal Law and all living Americans are required to have health insurance, why am I required to carry health insurance to operate a motor vehicle or workman comp. on employees? The insurance companies that are carrying the liability will fight over who is going to pay the bill.  The subrogation of payment will take place. 

I am a free market kind of person, but the insurance companies have gotten away with having our State and Federal Government mandate various and duplicate coverage for healthcare.    Why do I have to have a separate health care coverage to operate a "wheeled" motor vehicle, but not for injuries sustained by a bicycle, boat, porch swing, skate board or a swimming pool?  We are being ripped off. 

If you have health insurance, I would not buy additional health coverage unless you want to have some type of gap coverage for you high deductible.  If you have a personal liability policy, your insurance company may require you to have higher amounts of coverage.

[bpreynolds]

I appreciate the further discussion here regarding health insurance and that sort of thing, but with this thread I am more specifically interested in whether an individual carries PIP on your motorcycle policy?  I should have specified that in my initial post. 

[Lannis]

I appreciate the further discussion here regarding health insurance and that sort of thing, but with this thread I am more specifically interested in whether an individual carries PIP on your motorcycle policy?  I should have specified that in my initial post.

No.   Not worth it to me.   I spend enough on insurance as it is.

Lannis

[LowRyter]

I thought a $10k medical was part of any basic insurance coverage even liability policies (guess I better check because I don't have full coverage on my bikes).

[roofus]

So YOU'RE that guy.   I and my company paid in about $450,000 in insurance premiums in my life, and I've spent maybe $20,000.

I've paid $40,000 or so in car insurance and have never claimed anything .....

I knew there was someone out there leeching off of me .... 

Lannis

My insurance broker split up with his wife and he said she took him for a bundle!!!

Then he went out an bought a McLaren Sports Car (not the P1, but  it cost approx $400,000 plus tax) His everyday car is a Beemer!


Any more questions?