LED v halogen side-by-side

[rodekyll]

I bought a trucklite series 7 7" LED DOT headlight module.  I installed it in a vetter-style headlight bucket.  It was literally plug-n-play.  The headlight is thicker than oem so it protrudes a few mm more than a standard bulb.  It's not an issue for my vetter housing, but ymmv.  It has an extended pigtail with a standard H4-type male plug that simply plugs in to the existing harness plug.

The headlight is 35w for both high and low beam.  Compared to the halogen it replaces there is no noticeable drop in voltage -- maybe 13.8 on v 14 off.  the halogen drops me to about 13.5v and 13.2v lo/hi.  Alternator starts charging at 15mph in high range (convert content) which is just off idle.  Light is bluer than the decidedly yellow halogen in its aging bosch reflector.

I promised to install this light in a car and compare it to a halogen.  To do this I borrowed a jeep with 7" round headlights and a pair of halogens already installed.  I replaced the RH headlamp with the LED.  Then I adjusted them with actual headlight adjuster equipment to 0/0 (I know that values vary from vehicle to vehicle, but this seemed to be a good point to compare to a bike).

A few nights ago I ran out to the end of the road and brought the camera.  I set it on a tripod at 400iso, 1/2sec f3.8.  Focal length doesn't matter.  I set the tripod next to the driver's door and after initial setup did not touch it again.  With the camera preset I used a remote trigger.

Now remember that the halogen is in the left and LED in the right.  Camera is to the left of the headlights and slightly behind.  I took two sets of pictures, "long" and "short", unplugging first one and then the other headlight.  The photos are raw -- only editing is to change resolution for the web.  1/2sec@3.8 might not be capturing the actual amount of light (it's a bit dim, but I wanted to show the untouched pics) but it's equal for both bulbs.  I'll let you judge the 35w/35w LED against the 50w/55w halogen:

Halogen low, close


LED low, close


Halogen hi close


LED hi close


Halogen low long


LED low long


Halogen hi long


LED hi long


I drove home with the halogen unplugged and liked it.  The LED seems to do a good job as a main light.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Very scientific study

Good enough for the girls I go with anyway 

[pauldaytona]

The led doesn't show that much more bright. Only more blue. Most pictures in internet show the led as 5 times as bright. What is the experience when you see it live?

[flangeman_70]

Thanks RK. As Kiwi stated very scientific approach and the results are nice.
This is timely as I was searching last night for a unit and I see now the the JW Speaker 8700 Evolution 2 has hit the market which has lowered the price on the Evolution I series on fleabay. I also noted that there is a flood of various suppliers with multiple iterations of the same looking unit.

Interesting also that you used a Jeep because if you search under them they are cheaper than if you search under motorcycle.

If anyone is interested in buying a set (I am open to various makes of known good quality) and sending the other on to me (at my expense of course, PM and we can work something out.

Adam.

[rodekyll]

The led doesn't show that much more bright. Only more blue. Most pictures in internet show the led as 5 times as bright. What is the experience when you see it live?

The halogen has a hot spot (visible in the close shots) that the LED does not -- at least not that pronounced.  I was able to pick out its center 'spot' against the trees, but not as pronounced.  The LED light is more evenly distributed.  That could be one reason why.  If you notice in the pics, the LED has a more even 'fill' than the halogen, and even though it's on the right side of the car it lights up the left and right shoulders better and higher.  The bright center is wider and lower than the halogen, which puts a lot of light downrange.  I'd say the 'reach' of them are about the same, but it's hard to tell on our windy roads.

Yes, it's bluer.  I don't like that, but there's no 'warmer' choice right now.  This shade of blue sits right on the edge of annoying color abberations -- reds going to purple and yellows to green, etc.  Contrast increases too, making it harder to tell a patch of oil from a hole in the road.  Any bluer and I'd be offering it for sale.  I think more yellow is easier on the brain for night driving.

But LED is definitely brighter in the pics and in real life.  Remember that these are dim pics because I made a guess about the camera settings.  If I played with them in photoshop I could uniformly brighten all of them, but then one could question if I was really being fair about it.  Considering it's using about 35% less power to get there, I'm impressed.  I'm not sure I'm $150 impressed yet though.  I need to get it on the open road in some nasty conditions to tell you that.

 

[pauldaytona]

compared to halogen, a good led does 5 times the lumen output, so 35<>55 watt, should have at least double the light intensity, when measured. But maybe it does have that.

[rodekyll]

Dunno.  I didn't bring the light meter.  I took pics and made observations.  I'm leaving it up to the readers to decide if the pics mean anything to them.  I'm not trying to sell anyone on LED, but my assessment is that a proper 35w LED retrofit like the Trucklite Series 7 can put out as good or better than 55w of halogen under these conditions.  I see the energy savings with no sacrifice of light to be a good thing, especially with the anemic charging systems of the older bikes.  ymmv.

[dilligaf]

Thanks, 
Matt

[Bill Havins]

Thanks for the photos, RK.  I have been wanting to see a comparison like this for a long time.  I believe your camera settings give a real sense of the differences between the two light sources, rather than attempting to "overemphasize" the differences.  Very nice. 

As we grow older our contrast sensitivity/discrimination diminishes.  And if a person has a cataract developing in one or both eyes, or if one or both retinas have any damage at all, their contrast sensitivity/discrimination may be further diminished.  It is this contrast sensitivity/discrimination thing that allows us to "see the road" at night.

Headlights have traditionally illuminated the road with a "color" that is perceived as yellow-white.  In the last ten years or so we have seen headlights introduced that produce light that is perceived as blue-white (or purple-white in some cars).  IMHO this move to "blue" has the potential to increase problems with contrast sensitivity/discrimination, thus making it harder to "see the road" at night.  This can make it very difficult to perceive the difference between an old "grayed-out" road surface, the shoulder, and a caliche area off of the shoulder of the road.  This is especially true if edge-of-the-road markings are "washed out" or missing.

This issue of reduced contrast sensitivity/discrimination really makes driving/riding at night difficult.  Many older people will not drive/ride after dusk because of the problem.  If a headlight color limits contrast it just makes the problem worse.  My impression of the TruckLite photos causes me to believe it is not the choice to use if a person is already having problems with contrast sensitivity/discrimination.  Notice how the yellow lines in the middle of the road go from yellow in the halogen shots to white in the LED shots.  There is other evidence of color change in the LED photos; color change from blue light increases problems with contrast discrimination/sensitivity.

Thanks for the study, RK.  It helps me "see" the difference.

[redrider]

Nice work, RK. What settings did you use? I use Hyper Yellow bulbs and would like to compare to yours.

[Triple Jim]

Headlights have traditionally illuminated the road with a "color" that is perceived as yellow-white.  In the last ten years or so we have seen headlights introduced that produce light that is perceived as blue-white (or purple-white in some cars).  IMHO this move to "blue" has the potential to increase problems with contrast sensitivity/discrimination, thus making it harder to "see the road" at night.  This can make it very difficult to perceive the difference between an old "grayed-out" road surface, the shoulder, and a caliche area off of the shoulder of the road.  This is especially true if edge-of-the-road markings are "washed out" or missing.

Bill, why do you feel that changing the color of the light from yellow-biased to white, for example, reduces contrast perception?  I don't see that in RK's photos, and I haven't noticed it when riding at night with my LED headlight, which emits a very white light.  I'm not saying you're not correct, I'm just wondering what you base this on.

[donn]

Yes, it's bluer.  I don't like that, but there's no 'warmer' choice right now.  This shade of blue sits right on the edge of annoying color abberations -- reds going to purple and yellows to green, etc.

Interesting, it doesn't come out in the pictures, to me anyway.  I'd put it pretty close to 5000K.

[Dean Rose]

Been looking for something to improve the lighting on my '02 EV.

Dean

[andrewdonald1]

In installed the Denali D2's with the 10 deg lens on my Stelvio a couple weeks ago.
They are great! 
Bright too.
Overall a major increase in safety/visibility in the day.
Night is amazing as well.

Frankly I am amazed how much light comes out of those little suckers for 10 W, and how small they are.
I ended up fender mounting them, and now that I have them there.. there's nothing wrong with them there.

They weren't cheap, but they are high quality and I would recommend them in a heart beat.
The nice thing is how small they are and the light output for the watts.

[dlapierre]

I just want to say that being on the receiving end of the blue-ish lights at night is a real irritation.

[andrewdonald1]

I just want to say that being on the receiving end of the blue-ish lights at night is a real irritation.

I agree.  But a 20 second irritation to some could mean your life (or permanent injury) if you are the one on the motorcycle and they don't notice you.

That's always been my way of rationalizing it. 

I would much rather be in the above situation then "dead wrong".
Meaning:  you follow the rules and someone else doesn't and you end up dead because of it.
Sometimes you have to modify the rules if the situation calls for it.

In my opinion being noticed is more important on a motorcycle as we are not of the same weight as 90% of the vehicles out there, nor do we have the crash or safety devices.

[Triple Jim]

To me, the pattern and aiming of the lights on oncoming vehicles are far more important than the color.  Unfortunately there are a lot of blueish "custom" lights on vehicles that seem to be aimed right in my eyes, and those are very irritating.

[oldbike54]

 I think the "blue" irritation may be less with LEDs than those goofy custom colored headlights that were so popular just recently . Yellow , blue , red , even pink  Those HID or whateverinhell they were seemed to be designed to intentionally blind oncoming vehicles , and create a surreal picture for the rider .

  Dusty

[charlie b]

The problems with oncoming drivers is the use of some LED's in reflectors designed for halogen.

The LED pattern does not have a sharp cutoff so more residual light is directed toward oncoming traffic.

I don't have a problem with contrast, but, with road signs.  The LED reflects from road signs and markers a lot 'better' than halogen.  I measured a distance of almost 1/2 mile to a yellow reflector I could see 'lit up' by the LED lights on a dark road.  That's good.

What is not good is the amount of reflected light from the huge road signs, those big green ones with big letters.  When you get closer to them the reflected light is enough to wipe out any dark vision I might have had.  Like driving toward someone with their brights on.

FWIW, that is the only problem I have had with mine.  Keep in mind I have only used them when commuting in the mornings so I have not done a 'real' test of riding on a rural highway in pitch black.

I would still maintain that if you want really good long distance light, then HID's are probably better.

[rodekyll]

The annoying part of oncoming traffic's HID and LED headlights is, as was pointed out above, the result of installing the bulb in a reflector/lens combination for which it was not designed.  With the light source somewhere other than the focal center of the reflector, the light column is not shaped well and much of it 'scatters'.  The annoying glare is the scatter.

I had wanted to do this test on a rainy night because you can see the light column better in the rain (same is true for sighting in a firearm -- you can watch the bullet).  It would have shown the scatter I saw when I stuffed HID and LED bulbs into my halogen headlight.  But the jeep I borrowed was very scary to drive due to some suspension/axle/steering type problem.  It was hard enough to keep between the lines on dry pavement -- I wasn't going to ride the squirrel on a slick surface.

I agree that HID should outshoot LED by a fair piece -- literally a country mile.  I've run 55w HID in my driving lights, and boy, howdy do they change the nightscape.  Even with the reflected scatter (that as someone above mentioned) from the street signs blinding me, the color aberration making the night look like a Dr Suess nightmare and almost binary contrast they were superior to anything I've ever had up front -- including aircraft landing lights.  I have a pair of 55w 2.5" HID projectors I'm tinkering with.  I'm convinced that if I can get the scatter under control I'll own the night, and the HID was made for projectors. 

Once again (3rd post of this information -- hope it's enough -- ) the camera was set to ISO 400, f3.8, 1/2sec.  The pics would do better with iso 400, f2.8 and 3/4sec.  Any more and I think you'll be showing more light than actually happens.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Loopers point of view:

Dan Eberhardt has one of the Truck-Lite units in his Eldo. It's fairly shallow with no prongs sticking out the back, so works great in Loop headlight buckets where space in front of the fuse block is at a premium. The original CEV "snuffbox" switch should be able to handle the draw without relays, but it's probably still a good idea to wire some in. Does stick out through the headlight rim a bit and can make getting it hooked back into the bucket a bit fiddly. I was surprised how much the LED headlight weighed as well.

[rodekyll]

It's a heavyweight 'bulb'.  The weight is the first impression you have of it.

I agree that the wattage is minimal and the old pillbox switches should handle the load, but I'd still install a relay just on general principles.

I have heard that the front protrusion of the truck lite interferes with some headlight rings.  It did not with mine.

[canuguzzi]

Adding LED to light assemblies that aren't designed for them is a half baked kludge.  The reflectors won't work well and you end up with a very bright light as opposed to a lot of illumination down road.  They are great for visibility in the others can see you but you really gain little to no benefit unless the entire assembly is purpose built.

It is like adding a loud exhaust and thinking the noise is more power.

[lorazepam]

Thanks for the pictures. I recently installed a pair of 10w led lights on the forks of my V7 stone. I have been out of town all week, and have not had a chance to get them properly aimed and good pictures of the beams of light. I put a Hella yellow H4 bulb in the headlight to increase contrast and improve my daytime visibility.
I am hoping the two work well together for night driving, and daytime visibility. LED lights are going to be the standard of the future.

[charlie b]

Adding LED to light assemblies that aren't designed for them is a half baked kludge.  The reflectors won't work well and you end up with a very bright light as opposed to a lot of illumination down road.  They are great for visibility in the others can see you but you really gain little to no benefit unless the entire assembly is purpose built.

It is like adding a loud exhaust and thinking the noise is more power.

Yep, which is why I like mine the way they are.  99% of the time they are on for other drivers to see me during the day.

Although they are better than my old sealed beam halogens were at night.  Not as good as the replacement halogen reflectors and bulbs.

The other benefit for me is the very low current draw.  Less than 2A.

[Bill Havins]

Bill, why do you feel that changing the color of the light from yellow-biased to white, for example, reduces contrast perception?  I don't see that in RK's photos, and I haven't noticed it when riding at night with my LED headlight, which emits a very white light.  I'm not saying you're not correct, I'm just wondering what you base this on.

Jim, my comments were about headlights that have a blue quality to them.  "True" white (full spectrum light) is ideal for perceiving contrast.

As an example, here is a link to a, er, scientific article, that talks about the issue of "blue light" as it relates to contrast in snow skiing:  http://www.researchgate.net/publication/240756977_Contrast_Enhancing_Filters_in_Ski_Sports.

Of course, in the article above, they are talking about "filtering" blue from sunlight; that's not what RK's thread is about - it's about an LED headlight.  But the issue is the same - if you shine a light on a roadway, and if that light has a blue quality to it, you begin to lose contrast.  If the light is full spectrum that's about as good as it gets.

I could be all wrong on this.

Bill

[Triple Jim]

Jim, my comments were about headlights that have a blue quality to them.  "True" white (full spectrum light) is ideal for perceiving contrast.

OK, thanks.  I did find an abstract on the NIH site that said that yellow light enhances contrast perception a little:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8729569

And of course white LEDs have a mix of red, green, and blue emission to appear white, so it's not full spectrum.  On the completely subjective side, I rode at night a few weeks ago, with the Cyclops H4 LED bulb in my Bosch headlight reflector, and I really liked it.  It lit the road very well at a distance, and scattered a lot nearby, which I felt allowed me to scan the edge of the woods for deer a lot better than a quartz-halogen does.

[rodekyll]

The truck lite LED is not advertised as white.  It's blue @~6000k.  tri-color LED photographs slightly magenta.

[pauldaytona]

Not the same comparison, but also LEd, foglights next to the double H4 of the Stelvio. That has 30% brighter h4 from Philips.

I wanted LED fog lights, not the blinding cheap things from china.
I found only BMW to have a real flat bundle LED, sold for the GS. So I bought two, with a short cable on it to have the right plug.
I wanted them to be on the fork legs,  so I designed a mounting thingy in cad. I found a shop that made them for me and I mounted them.
I'm happy with it. Will use them as day running lights too.

BMW parts:
led light: 63178532147   105 euro
wire: 63177723139     10 euro