MCN - Retro Roadster Review

[Kev m]

I just got the email with the link to the electronic copy of next Month's Motorcycle Consumer News and they've got the oddest covers story.

They call it a RETRO ROADSTER REVIEW.

But maybe they should have entitled it THREE DEAD MODELS?

That's a weird one.

Why is MCN just now going to compare 3 outgoing models:

CB1100
Griso 1200
Bonnie T100

I guess their press lead time is longer than I thought, but still man, they should have some idea of what is going on in the market. And it's not like the neo-Bonnie hasn't been on the radar for almost a YEAR.

Strange choices.

[tazio]

I'll sometimes read older mag reviews of a used bike I am thinking of getting.
These comparison tests may be of use down the road..
But, yes. I see your point.

[rocker59]

Maybe the OEMs wanted the compare done, so that the publicity would help move the leftovers !!!

[kirkemon]

Is the CB1100 dead?
I liked the size of it but not the weight.
They still have it on their site:
http://powersports.honda.com/2014/cb1100.aspx

Oh dear, just realized it's a 2014 doh!

[Arizona Wayne]

Is the CB1100 dead?
I liked the size of it but not the weight.
They still have it on their site:
http://powersports.honda.com/2014/cb1100.aspx

Oh dear, just realized it's a 2014 doh!

Well if it's a sales loser, once again the Jap. MC companies listened to the wailing public about how they would buy a new old CB standard bike, it was offered and the sales never met expectations.  Nothing new about how talkers don't match buyers.   

[professor]

Well if it's a sales loser, once again the Jap. MC companies listened to the wailing public about how they would buy a new old CB standard bike, it was offered and the sales never met expectations.  Nothing new about how talkers don't match buyers.   

Amen on steroids. MG listening to this forum???? Or any forum for that matter. Caution. MG never gives us what we want.....really?

[rocker59]

MG never gives us what we want.....really?

GRiSo was a near-miss, as far as I'm concerned.

There would've been more buyers for the SE, had it been equipped with ABS.  That's just a fact. 

I don't care about ABS, myself, but the 4.4-gallon tank killed it for me. 

[professor]

Every thing MG makes is a near miss. Naked bike...near miss. Touring...near miss Adventure ...near miss. Cruiser...near miss Entry level V7 most successful in Europe as an A2 bike. In US underpowered...near miss. Reborn California...near miss. Restyled 1400s ...near miss. V9 Roamer...near miss (by some of the post). V7R looks great, but my back won't handle the riding position, my stomach won't fit near the tank, my butt is too wide for the seat....near miss.  I'd buy one but it has less power, less suspension, less fuel capacity, less color options, less you name it.  Do you think that maybe we expect MG to be something it cannot ever be. It is a Vespa. Iconic on the outside, true to history, true to original design, yet new and up to date with out loosing that iconic feel and look. They will  not dump the V engine. Vespa made Piaggio wealthy. This is where they learned their chops. Want more HP buy a Aprilia. To be happy with MG you need to have expectations that match what they are capable of doing. And frankly want to do. You either love them or not. Plenty of other options. Complaining won't change it. You have to march to their drum beat.

American seem not to be able to do that. But true to American mentality we certainly will bitch, moan, complain and cry foul. If we could, we would sue Piaggio because it is all their fault. Guys MG is what it is. They are not going to reinvent the company for the paltry sales in the US. Accept that. MG has not found a way to meet the expectations of US consumers in volume. And I doubt they ever will. This is a niche, bouquet motorcycle. Keep your ten year old bike, get on the forum and keep it running. But don't expect the world to revolve around the US market. The Big Four have far more resources and they certainly don't. Piaggio has a very strong base in Europe (20 Pulse % market share) and building elsewhere and doing just fine. In a single phrase...they don't need us.

[rocker59]

Every thing MG makes is a near miss. Naked bike...near miss. Touring...near miss Adventure ...near miss. Cruiser...near miss Entry level V7 most successful in Europe as an A2 bike. In US underpowered...near miss. Reborn California...near miss. Restyled 1400s ...near miss. V9 Roamer...near miss (by some of the post). V7R looks great, but my back won't handle the riding position, my stomach won't fit near the tank, my butt is too wide for the seat....near miss.  I'd buy one but it has less power, less suspension, less fuel capacity, less color options, less you name it.  Do you think that maybe we expect MG to be something it cannot ever be. It is a Vespa. Iconic on the outside, true to history, true to original design, yet new and up to date with out loosing that iconic feel and look. They will  not dump the V engine. Vespa made Piaggio wealthy. This is where they learned their chops. Want more HP buy a Aprilia. To be happy with MG you need to have expectations that match what they are capable of doing. And frankly want to do. You either love them or not. Plenty of other options. Complaining won't change it. You have to march to their drum beat.

American seem not to be able to do that. But true to American mentality we certainly will bitch, moan, complain and cry foul. If we could, we would sue Piaggio because it is all their fault. Guys MG is what it is. They are not going to reinvent the company for the paltry sales in the US. Accept that. MG has not found a way to meet the expectations of US consumers in volume. And I doubt they ever will. This is a niche, bouquet motorcycle. Keep your ten year old bike, get on the forum and keep it running. But don't expect the world to revolve around the US market. The Big Four have far more resources and they certainly don't. Piaggio has a very strong base in Europe (20 Pulse % market share) and building elsewhere and doing just fine. In a single phrase...they don't need us.

What the Hell are you going on about? 

Stelvio and Norge are very nice, competitive bikes in their niche.  I like the Stelvio, but due to limited range of motion, can't comfortably swing a leg over one, so didn't buy.  Not the bike's fault.  It's pretty much perfect.

My Nero Corsa and my Sport 1100 are perfect.  Guzzi built the perfect sporty sport-touring bikes for me and I love them.  Still have the Sport 1100 after almost 19-years.

I've bought two V7s and like the things.  Other than the expected bargain basement suspension, the bikes are great for what they are: versatile retro standards.

Guzzi woke up and put larger fuel tanks on the Stelvio and V7.  ABS, too.  They didn't do either on the GRiSO, and it withered.  Great bike, but two big negatives that kept them from being successes.  By Guzzi standards.

The V9 Roamer is going to be a great bike.  Not crazy about the 3.9 gallon tank, but with 50 mpg, should more than satisfy most customers.  As a commuter, I might even give it a pass on the fuel capacity, as long as I had another bike in the garage for LD riding.

I'm mostly happy with Guzzi under Piaggio.  I do wish I could buy a new V11 Nero Corsa, but the lineup is continuing to improve over time.

[Kev m]

Maybe the OEMs wanted the compare done, so that the publicity would help move the leftovers !!!

Wouldn't have any bearing on an MCN decision as they do not take any advertising dollars.

No they even put a note in about how at press time the new water Bonnie had just been released.

[rocker59]

Wouldn't have any bearing on an MCN decision as they do not take any advertising dollars.

No they even put a note in about how at press time the new water Bonnie had just been released.

It was a joke.  I forgot the emoticon...

 

[bad Chad]

I know conventional wisdom is that the mighty Griso is on its last legs, but has their been any kind of official release that would support this conclusion?

[Devildog]

My Nero Corsa and my Sport 1100 are perfect.  Guzzi built the perfect sporty sport-touring bikes for me and I love them.  Still have the Sport 1100 after almost 19-years.

 
If MG re-introduced the Sport 1100 today I would buy another one...this time in black. 

[canuguzzi]

Every thing MG makes is a near miss. Naked bike...near miss. Touring...near miss Adventure ...near miss. Cruiser...near miss Entry level V7 most successful in Europe as an A2 bike. In US underpowered...near miss. Reborn California...near miss. Restyled 1400s ...near miss. V9 Roamer...near miss (by some of the post). V7R looks great, but my back won't handle the riding position, my stomach won't fit near the tank, my butt is too wide for the seat....near miss.  I'd buy one but it has less power, less suspension, less fuel capacity, less color options, less you name it.  Do you think that maybe we expect MG to be something it cannot ever be. It is a Vespa. Iconic on the outside, true to history, true to original design, yet new and up to date with out loosing that iconic feel and look. They will  not dump the V engine. Vespa made Piaggio wealthy. This is where they learned their chops. Want more HP buy a Aprilia. To be happy with MG you need to have expectations that match what they are capable of doing. And frankly want to do. You either love them or not. Plenty of other options. Complaining won't change it. You have to march to their drum beat.

American seem not to be able to do that. But true to American mentality we certainly will bitch, moan, complain and cry foul. If we could, we would sue Piaggio because it is all their fault. Guys MG is what it is. They are not going to reinvent the company for the paltry sales in the US. Accept that. MG has not found a way to meet the expectations of US consumers in volume. And I doubt they ever will. This is a niche, bouquet motorcycle. Keep your ten year old bike, get on the forum and keep it running. But don't expect the world to revolve around the US market. The Big Four have far more resources and they certainly don't. Piaggio has a very strong base in Europe (20 Pulse % market share) and building elsewhere and doing just fine. In a single phrase...they don't need us.

MG bikes are not known for reliability aside from the people who say their MG is the most reliable bike they've owned. Ease of maintenance, better be cause you're doing a lot of it.

MG has been making the same bikes for how long? By this time, after all those years of slow evolution and the decades of time, a MG should be the ultimate in reliability right out the door.

There shouldn't be anything you need to do to get it sorted, it should be sorted already. It isn't unrealistic to expect bikes that look like they are made a long time ago to be among the most reliable and trouble free bikes in existence.

Its not asking too much for a bike to leave the factory with a good map, grease, fasteners tight and secured against rattling loose, near perfect fit between parts and all the little things that niggle people as evidenced by a good portion of the threads here.

A MG should be  100,000 mile trouble free bike out of the crate.

Anyone can sell reliability. People buy pet rocks.

Right or wrong, reliability and trouble free operation is not synonymous with MG bikes. Your MG might be fantastically reliable and trouble free, they all need to be that way. No one wants to buy a toaster that doesn't work and MG has been around longer than most. Most people do not want to buy a bike they need to sort out.

Sales figures don't lie. There is a reason why MG sales are at the bottom of the rung. Blaming expectations is excusing MGs lack of attention to detail, customer respect and the proven make it and make it right manufacturing philosophy.

[tazio]

NP,
You must quit holding back your feelings, lest your head explodes
Without sugar coating it, I must admit that almost every conversation I've had regarding Moto-Guzzi involves having to hear
what a POS they are or how butt ugly they are. These comments have come from old crusty's who long ago, and for lots of excuses, had moved on from riding any kind of motorcycles. They have formulated these opinions from their limited personal experience and first hand accounts.
Delving further, they admit to owning their guzzi a very short time, and of the people that "knew somebody always working on their
guzzi"? it turns out these riders practically lived on their bikes and were always taking off on some trip somewhere.
I cannot defend the overall reliability of a Guzzi, I do know that I am on a very unique brand of motorcycle, built in limited quantities.
Lower production numbers can equate to less accuracy, throw in a pinch of mismanagement and a dash of limited support for this once proud brand, and it's a wonder so many of us have completed our cross country trips and our Iron butt rally's with no "mechanicals" whatsoever on our POS.

[Rox]

Is the CB1100 dead?
I liked the size of it but not the weight.
They still have it on their site:
http://powersports.honda.com/2014/cb1100.aspx

Oh dear, just realized it's a 2014 doh!

  At least in the US it is ... So is the VFR .... It's a shame too.. They could of had a real winner with the CB1100. It's a great bike but they could of done better.. More power, better styling better frame and suspension. Instead they remade an 80's bike with 70's power.. That's even more backwards than what Guzzi does... 

As for the MCN comparo I think it's silly .. If they had REALLY anything in common they're all naked and they're all getting discontinued ... I highly doubt you'll see the air/oil cooled Triumph 865 in 2017. .
  As for Piaggio phasing out the Griso with no word of a replacement? Dumb.
   

[fotoguzzi]

  This is a niche, bouquet motorcycle.

where is the flower emoticon?

 
 

all my Guzzi's have been very reliable, I did have to sort them.

[lucian]

Now that is one proper looking MC. And love the eldo sign

[rboe]

I own the CB and the Griso (and I'm not the only one, for some reason, for some of us having these two bikes is like having peaches and cream).

Over on the CB forum, the folks that sell them and move on, mostly because it lacks the horse power they expected. However; for the vast majority feel that the hp is a none issue. If you want hp then the CB is not for you. For the buyer it was intended for, there is plenty of hp. Thank you.

To top it off, it has better brakes than the Griso. Handles the twisty bits better than the Griso. Is a better town bike than the Griso. The Griso is nicer on the road and fast sweepers.

The CB is doing fine in Japan, I "think" it's still live in Europe. There is some guessing/hoping that the CB will make a come back to the US market once current stock is sold off.

Kinda like the Griso, the CB appeals to a certain person and pretty much the pox on the rest of you. 

Still can't believe folks compare the CB to the Griso (Bonnie yes, Griso no). Apples and whole grain bread. 

[kingoffleece]

I'm new(ish) to Guzzi but not to bikes.  Over 45 years on two wheels.  I've had all kinds of motorcycles of all sizes and some at over 145bhp.  I LOVE my V7, know exactly what I bought, and knock off 400 miles on it per day several times a year.  I don't find it under powered at all-but I get how many do-but they'd be wrong.  It's always the same answer.  Want more power?  Get a bigger motor.
Don't like what the OEM has done to the bike?  Don't buy it.  I don't see the need for all the noise about the 750 doesn't make enough power, or the new Bonneville.  It is what it is and lots of riders like these machines just fine.

I also have a Norge.  Love it.  I tries all the S/T bikes and the M-G hit all the buttons for me.  This goes on and on and many have very good and well thought out posts.  The market will decide in the end, as it always does.

[Sheepdog]

What gets lost in all this is the quality that has made my Guzzi the best bike I've ever owned: after the sorting-out and the personalizations, it started to improve with age. The motor loosened up, the reliability became extraordinary, the maintenance became routine. After eight years with my Vintage, it is actually a better machine in every way. I realize that not every rider values these qualities in our impatient, instant gratification world, but it is a Guzzi's most wonderful trait.

As for MCN; I was a long-time subscriber, but found the editorial direction becoming repetitive and stale. Despite their claims of objectivity, i kept seeing their personal bias' intrude in their copy. Perhaps, I also "discovered" the beauty of my Guzzi as described above...and realized that MCN's editorial approach would inevitably reward the same sort of machine over and over. They cannot stay with a machine of lasting worth long enough to truly evaluate it's most endearing qualities, but can only offer a snapshot at it's jejune outset. The only bike mag I still subscribe to is Motorcycle Classics.

[jas67]

The CB is doing fine in Japan, I "think" it's still live in Europe. There is some guessing/hoping that the CB will make a come back to the US market once current stock is sold off.

Hopefully, but, it also might be like the W650 (and W800 that replaced it).   We got it for two years.  Everyone that wanted one, and was willing to pay new price got one in that two years, then they disappeared from the US market, but, they kept building them and selling them elsewhere.    I think the same might happen with the CB1100.   We got the SR400 for what 3-4 years?    Yamaha kept building and selling them in their home market all this time.   Now, it has re-entered the US market, at least for a short while.    Maybe Honda will do the same with the CB1100.

[Joliet Jim]

Hopefully, but, it also might be like the W650 (and W800 that replaced it).   We got it for two years.  Everyone that wanted one, and was willing to pay new price got one in that two years, then they disappeared from the US market, but, they kept building them and selling them elsewhere.    I think the same might happen with the CB1100.   We got the SR400 for what 3-4 years?    Yamaha kept building and selling them in their home market all this time.   Now, it has re-entered the US market, at least for a short while.    Maybe Honda will do the same with the CB1100.

I was on yamahas website the other day and the sr400 was no longer listed.

[bad Chad]

You must have been looking at the wrong web site Jim,  http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/models/sr400

[Arizona Wayne]

I'm new(ish) to Guzzi but not to bikes.  Over 45 years on two wheels.  I've had all kinds of motorcycles of all sizes and some at over 145bhp.  I LOVE my V7, know exactly what I bought, and knock off 400 miles on it per day several times a year.  I don't find it under powered at all-but I get how many do-but they'd be wrong.  It's always the same answer.  Want more power?  Get a bigger motor.
Don't like what the OEM has done to the bike?  Don't buy it.  I don't see the need for all the noise about the 750 doesn't make enough power, or the new Bonneville.  It is what it is and lots of riders like these machines just fine.

I also have a Norge.  Love it.  I tries all the S/T bikes and the M-G hit all the buttons for me.  This goes on and on and many have very good and well thought out posts.  The market will decide in the end, as it always does.

 

[professor]

MG bikes are not known for reliability aside from the people who say their MG is the most reliable bike they've owned. Ease of maintenance, better be cause you're doing a lot of it.

MG has been making the same bikes for how long? By this time, after all those years of slow evolution and the decades of time, a MG should be the ultimate in reliability right out the door.

There shouldn't be anything you need to do to get it sorted, it should be sorted already. It isn't unrealistic to expect bikes that look like they are made a long time ago to be among the most reliable and trouble free bikes in existence.

Its not asking too much for a bike to leave the factory with a good map, grease, fasteners tight and secured against rattling loose, near perfect fit between parts and all the little things that niggle people as evidenced by a good portion of the threads here.

A MG should be  100,000 mile trouble free bike out of the crate.

Anyone can sell reliability. People buy pet rocks.

Right or wrong, reliability and trouble free operation is not synonymous with MG bikes. Your MG might be fantastically reliable and trouble free, they all need to be that way. No one wants to buy a toaster that doesn't work and MG has been around longer than most. Most people do not want to buy a bike they need to sort out.

Sales figures don't lie. There is a reason why MG sales are at the bottom of the rung. Blaming expectations is excusing MGs lack of attention to detail, customer respect and the proven make it and make it right manufacturing philosophy.

    You have said this before. So I believe you must have had bad experience. Exactly what happened? Why do you feel so strongly about MG reliability ot lack of it. You seem OK with your Norge.

[professor]

What the Hell are you going on about? 

Stelvio and Norge are very nice, competitive bikes in their niche.  I like the Stelvio, but due to limited range of motion, can't comfortably swing a leg over one, so didn't buy.  Not the bike's fault.  It's pretty much perfect.

My Nero Corsa and my Sport 1100 are perfect.  Guzzi built the perfect sporty sport-touring bikes for me and I love them.  Still have the Sport 1100 after almost 19-years.

I've bought two V7s and like the things.  Other than the expected bargain basement suspension, the bikes are great for what they are: versatile retro standards.

Guzzi woke up and put larger fuel tanks on the Stelvio and V7.  ABS, too.  They didn't do either on the GRiSO, and it withered.  Great bike, but two big negatives that kept them from being successes.  By Guzzi standards.

The V9 Roamer is going to be a great bike.  Not crazy about the 3.9 gallon tank, but with 50 mpg, should more than satisfy most customers.  As a commuter, I might even give it a pass on the fuel capacity, as long as I had another bike in the garage for LD riding.

I'm mostly happy with Guzzi under Piaggio.  I do wish I could buy a new V11 Nero Corsa, but the lineup is continuing to improve over time.

My point is all are nice bikes. They simply don't sell in the US. A hit sells out. A near miss lingers on and is eventually discounted. I hope the V9 sells well. MG are nearly always discounted in this area.They tend to sit in the showroom for protracted periods.

[WitchCityGuzzi]

MG bikes are not known for reliability aside from the people who say their MG is the most reliable bike they've owned. Ease of maintenance, better be cause you're doing a lot of it.

MG has been making the same bikes for how long? By this time, after all those years of slow evolution and the decades of time, a MG should be the ultimate in reliability right out the door.

There shouldn't be anything you need to do to get it sorted, it should be sorted already. It isn't unrealistic to expect bikes that look like they are made a long time ago to be among the most reliable and trouble free bikes in existence.

Its not asking too much for a bike to leave the factory with a good map, grease, fasteners tight and secured against rattling loose, near perfect fit between parts and all the little things that niggle people as evidenced by a good portion of the threads here.

A MG should be  100,000 mile trouble free bike out of the crate.

Anyone can sell reliability. People buy pet rocks.

Right or wrong, reliability and trouble free operation is not synonymous with MG bikes. Your MG might be fantastically reliable and trouble free, they all need to be that way. No one wants to buy a toaster that doesn't work and MG has been around longer than most. Most people do not want to buy a bike they need to sort out.

Sales figures don't lie. There is a reason why MG sales are at the bottom of the rung. Blaming expectations is excusing MGs lack of attention to detail, customer respect and the proven make it and make it right manufacturing philosophy.

Sales figures for Guzzi are low because of lack of dealers, lack of (until fairly recently) any real marketing and occasionally people stumbling on reviews by the few people that have had problems that most people would address and ride on. Some beat the dead horse and sell bikes because of fear that they're going to break down over crap they've read on the internet.

I remember a few years ago, there was a guy on the V11Lemans.com site that had just bought a nice Nero Corsa. He was so freaked out about the shifter spring issues and relay issues that he'd read about that he sold the bike after only owning for a couple of months and he never really rode it anywhere. He never had any problems or failures with the bike.

I have  a 2004 V11 Sport Ballabio with over 70,000 miles on it and it has never been down for anything other than a clutch at 60,000 or so miles. This was a bike that the internet warned were Guzzi's worst because it was the in between years of ownership of Aprilia and Piaggio, yada, yada, yade.  Not one failure. Not one relay failure, not one shifter spring failure. Nothing. Without question the most reliable bike I have ever owned and I've owned lots of Japanese bikes.

Other than the flat tappet failure on my Stelvio and my wife's Griso (which the factory stepped up and provided the parts for both of which long out of warranty) they both have been completely flawless. Both are currently running flawlessly. I wouldn't hesitate to jump on either and take them on a cross country trip tomorrow.

My swingarm, steering head bearings on both the Stelvio and the Griso were greased from the factory. I repacked them last year as I have over 65,000 miles on the Stelvio and figured it was time, the Griso has over 35,000 miles on it. Both have done cross country trips including going up to Alaska and I carried no tools other than the little factory kit. Didn't carry a list of dealers everywhere in the country and never once gave the mechanicals of the bikes a second thought.

Maybe the experiences you've had have soured you to Guzzi. Perhaps you should move on. Maybe it's not the bike for you. I (like many others) actually don't mind spending a couple of hours in the garage every once in a while checking things, tightening, servicing etc. It gives me the confidence that I'm familiar with most aspects of the bike and that makes me comfortable with it on long trips. For me, the character and charm of a small production, mostly hand built motorcycle, built in an old factory in Italy that is unlike anything  on the market with such an engaging motor is worth the price of admission.

[bpreynolds]

MG bikes are not known for reliability aside from the people who say their MG is the most reliable bike they've owned.

NP, dude.  I am being moved by the season and generosity this morning.  My Christmas wish for you is that in 2016 your posts will have something more than trashing MG every other thread.  I also hope Santa brings you that Suzuki you've been pining for.  Perhaps too he'll leave a factcheck book by your tree so that you can back up all these comments it seems like you are making where BMW and or ANY OTHER BRAND on Earth is so much better than MG.