Griso / Stelvio Clutch Issues Recall ?

[Karl Von]

It seems Piaggio is not wanting to recognize the clutch issues in the Stelvio and Griso's.   (Groaning Noise, Hard Lever, Clutch Failure).  Here is a link to the National Highway Safety Transportation board for those of you who want to file a complaint.  If we get enough people on board, maybe we can get Piaggio to issue a recall.   

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

BTW Piaggio only warranties the clutch and brake system for 6 months and is not covered under the 2 year warranty

[Hellgate]

Thanks Karl. At 1, 700 miles mine still moans if not fully warmed up. I was not expecting that to begin with let alone at 1, 700 miles. I think a call to my dealer is in order.

<Edit>

Having eaten lunch and getting my blood sugar back to normal I had some time to think on this. Unless it is a direct safety issue I don't think a recall will be issued.

[Bill Hagan]

FWIW, NHTSA wasn't at all interested in the early Norge's oil-pump failures.

Mine was under warranty, but not all.

Not sure what number is "enough people," but suspect affected Guzzisti aren't enough.  And, not sure NHTSA would pay any attention -- nor should they? -- to unaffected third parties chiming in. 

Bill

 

[Karl Von]

Thanks Karl. At 1, 700 miles mine still moans if not fully warmed up. I was not expecting that to begin with let alone at 1, 700 miles. I think a call to my dealer is in order.


Just don't let them tell you that is normal.   It might be a normal noise for a bad clutch assembly ready to go out. 

[Karl Von]

FWIW, NHTSA wasn't at all interested in the early Norge's oil-pump failures.

Mine was under warranty, but not all.

Not sure what number is "enough people," but suspect affected Guzzisti aren't enough.  And, not sure NHTSA would pay any attention -- nor should they? -- to unaffected third parties chiming in. 

Bill

 

Well I had enough recalls on my 03 Cali.   Camshaft / Valve Train, Fuel Pump, Triple Tree, then there was the new clutch under warranty..  Anything is possible

[ohiorider]

Does anyone know how many service hours Piaggio will reimburse a dealer for a clutch warranty repair?  If not, does anyone here know approximately how many hours a shop would generally charge to replace a Griso or Stelvio clutch out of warranty?  I'm thinking it would take a few hours to get to the clutch assembly, an hour or so to install the new clutch parts, and a few more hours to put it all back together.  I'm guessing 8 hours (+ -).  For an inexperienced individual like myself, perhaps a few days, assuming no special tools were required.

[Karl Von]

The dealer told my father it is a nightmare and you have to tear down a good portion of the bike.

[Vasco DG]

Comparing a Stelvio, at least an early one, and a Griso is like chalk and cheese. A 'Big Tank' Stelvio would be easier but still more complicated than the Griso. A Norge, ssimply because of all the plastic that has to come off is more time consuming and the 1200 Sport/Breva platform is closer to but longer to do than the Griso.

I've done several 'Gearbox Off' jobs now including one 1200 Sport I had to yank the box on four times to get it right! The first time it took me most of a day to get the box on the floor. By the last time I'd got it down to about two hours! :D

The long and the short of it is there is no short of it! I do know, much to my chagrin, that because of the factory not updating their info, (The reason why I had to pull the engine on the Sport four times!) I was given a couple of hours extra time for doing the rear main bearing flange on that bike, (At the factory's paltry pay rate of $65PH!). For that job I was credited a mere four hours! And there is further work after the clutch is out to do a rear main flange!

In all honesty unless your shop has a lot of experience I'd guess that on a Stelvio there would be eight to ten hours in it. Obviously with time and experience the time taken will diminish but it is still going to be a big job. Having said that its still fairly simple and straightforward, just time consuming!

Pete

[Wayne Orwig]

I'm thinking it would take a few hours to get to the clutch assembly, an hour or so to install the new clutch parts, and a few more hours to put it all back together.  I'm guessing 8 hours (+ -).  For an inexperienced individual like myself, perhaps a few days, assuming no special tools were required.

I first spent two days building a motor jacket to lower and raise the motor and not drop that to the ground.
Then probably two days to get the motor out and apart and all back together. (fixing a rear seal leak) I wasted a LOT of time because of interference with the crankcase vent on the front left and the frame. Next time around I would try to get that out of the way first.  :BEER:

My years of experience working on Kawasakis and Hondas helped.

Speaking of which, I have a Honda that needs the motor pulled now.  >:(

[beetle]

Yeah, but how many are actually affected? My Griso is fine. In fact I've not heard or read about a Griso with clutch problems that a bleed didn't fix.

On the interwebs, you only hear about the problems.

[canuguzzi]

JFYI, check out the warranties for Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki etc and you'll see that almost all of them exclude the clutch from their warranties starting day one.

No one wants to warranty a clutch. Not defending a bad design if that is the case.

[ohiorider]

Yeah, but how many are actually affected? My Griso is fine. In fact I've not heard or read about a Griso with clutch problems that a bleed didn't fix.

On the interwebs, you only hear about the problems.

Beetle - could you describe the condition that was cured by bleeding the clutch system?

[beetle]

IIRC it was on the GT site. Someone had a mushy clutch lever. I Googled it: CLICKY

..and I found one that had to do with the clutch lever pin: CLICKY

[ohiorider]

IIRC it was on the GT site. Someone had a mushy clutch lever. I Googled it: CLICKY

..and I found one that had to do with the clutch lever pin: CLICKY

Thanks, Beetle ..... that is some very good information to keep on file.  My Griso clutch is working ok, but it seems that it is taking up at the end of lever travel .... in other words, all clutch action is taking place at the last 10% or so of lever travel.  I'll check a few of the things that were outlined in these two threads.  I've always liked to feel the clutch take up before the lever is close to the end of travel

Bob

[leafman60]

I hate to read about Stelvio clutch failures.

Has anyone discovered what the problem is with the ones that have gone bad?  I'm guessing somebody on the assembly line didn't properly tighten a fastener or something like that....

[Vasco DG]

Oh fer f*cks sakes. David, sell your Stelvio and buy something else!

Pete

[Uzidzit]

They will warranty mine after their previous shitty service, it will be much cheaper and easier for them in the end....but mine actually broke parts and came unglued...if they only cover six mths I am still safe it has only been operable for 6 out of the 23 mths I have had it  ;-T

[Boulder Ed]

Well, my 2013 Stelvio just had a warranty clutch job.  It was bad when I bought the bike at 1800 miles, 15 months into service, (squeak and shudder on engagement), and stayed that way till 6500 miles when replaced.   It would do it hot or cold as well.    It was a good 10 hour job, for the experienced tech, spread over a few days.  It works great now.  They hesitated at first to accept the job, and I was leary of deeply tearing into a new bike right off the bat, but I agreed to ride it another period and after 4K more miles it still did the same thing, so we did it.   The dealer is great, and did a masterful job on the replacement. 

It is not known what the problem is, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had it reappear once fixed the first time.  I suspect the answer will be no.  The part number is the same and has not changed from the original number, so perhaps some clutch pack components were on one side or another of spec and cause the issue.  Another theory is that it had to do with early generation traction control.  Mine is a 2013 and this problem seemed to have been around for awhile, and I do not know for sure when it started or when first gen traction control was released.   BMW had a strikingly similar problem on many K1200R/S/GT models.  They never covered it under warranty. 

While it is disappointing to have had a major issue like this on a new bike, stuff happens, and the company stood behind the product and the dealer rocked in it's execution.   Better than any dealer I have ever dealt with.  That tells me they are trying to build the brand which is good for us all, as I really love my Stelvio and look forward to buying another Guzzi.   

 

[WitchCityGuzzi]

My Stelvio's clutch groaned when cold for quite a while. Usually it would disappear within 2-3 clutch engagements in the morning. I can't remember the last time it has done it now. It's been a long time. Must have finally bedded in at 65,000. 

The clutch lever pull on my 09 compared to the newer NTX's is night and day. The 09's is like your engaging the clutch on an Italian tank. I'm used to it now, and never give it a second thought.

I'm curious as to what kind of mileage people have gotten out of the clutch. I wonder if it'll make 100,000. Currently, it engages like it did the day I got it.

[JeffOlson]

My Norge had an issue after the shop replaced a bent clutch lever with a new one. (Don't ask me how the first lever got bent!)

Pete Roper diagnosed the problem from the far side of the world: a loose grub screw! The master cylinder pushrod pin was allowed to wiggle around willy nilly, causing my bike to feel like it had no clutch left.

Adjusting the pushrod pin and tightening the grub screw did the trick.

Sometimes the problem is simply a loose fastener. Moral the story: check all of your fasteners!

[Chuck in Indiana]

While it is disappointing to have had a major issue like this on a new bike, stuff happens, and the company stood behind the product and the dealer rocked in it's execution.   Better than any dealer I have ever dealt with.  That tells me they are trying to build the brand which is good for us all, as I really love my Stelvio and look forward to buying another Guzzi.   

Sounds to me like you need to name the Dealer.. great service should be rewarded.

[bad Chad]

As I understand, Stelvios don't have any kind of cush drive, that may put much more wear on the clutch?

[Wayne Orwig]

As I understand, Stelvios don't have any kind of cush drive, that may put much more wear on the clutch?

There are drive cushion springs built into the clutch plate itself.
There is a rubber cushion built into the drive shaft too.

[Bigtime]

Well, my 2013 Stelvio just had a warranty clutch job.  It was bad when I bought the bike at 1800 miles, 15 months into service, (squeak and shudder on engagement), and stayed that way till 6500 miles when replaced.   It would do it hot or cold as well.    It was a good 10 hour job, for the experienced tech, spread over a few days.  It works great now.  They hesitated at first to accept the job, and I was leary of deeply tearing into a new bike right off the bat, but I agreed to ride it another period and after 4K more miles it still did the same thing, so we did it.   The dealer is great, and did a masterful job on the replacement. 

It is not known what the problem is, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had it reappear once fixed the first time.  I suspect the answer will be no.  The part number is the same and has not changed from the original number, so perhaps some clutch pack components were on one side or another of spec and cause the issue.  Another theory is that it had to do with early generation traction control.  Mine is a 2013 and this problem seemed to have been around for awhile, and I do not know for sure when it started or when first gen traction control was released.   BMW had a strikingly similar problem on many K1200R/S/GT models.  They never covered it under warranty. 

While it is disappointing to have had a major issue like this on a new bike, stuff happens, and the company stood behind the product and the dealer rocked in it's execution.   Better than any dealer I have ever dealt with.  That tells me they are trying to build the brand which is good for us all, as I really love my Stelvio and look forward to buying another Guzzi.

Very interesting. I just bought a used '13 Stelvio(5600 miles) from AF1 Racing in Austin. They had sold the bike when new. Ed Cook( one of the owners and all round good guy) said they will replace the clutch under warranty before I pick it up.   JohnB   

[brenwin]

My Stelvio's clutch groaned when cold for quite a while. Usually it would disappear within 2-3 clutch engagements in the morning. I can't remember the last time it has done it now. It's been a long time. Must have finally bedded in at 65,000. 

The clutch lever pull on my 09 compared to the newer NTX's is night and day. The 09's is like your engaging the clutch on an Italian tank. I'm used to it now, and never give it a second thought.

I'm curious as to what kind of mileage people have gotten out of the clutch. I wonder if it'll make 100,000. Currently, it engages like it did the day I got it.

This is good news for me as my clutch on my 012 Stelvio has been groaning since new . She only does it when cold and so far so good . It is a concern though ! 8 to 10 hours on the bench is a lot of dough and the dealer says Piaggio won't cover the labor if it tanks .

[bad Chad]

There are drive cushion springs built into the clutch plate itself.
There is a rubber cushion built into the drive shaft too.

Ok but that's not the same shock absorption system as the rest of the CARC bikes, why?

[Vasco DG]

Chad, the 1100's/ pushrod 1200's and 12/1400 8V's use different gearbox internals and different clutches.

The later bikes don't have the face cam shock absorber on the input shaft but use the springs in the center of the friction plate to do the cushioning along with the bonded rubber joint in the driveshaft.

Pete