SGC... Annual fluid changes regardless of mileage?

[GearheadGrrrl]

Thought I'd ask this here as you folks are pretty tech savvy, suspenders notwithstanding. I'm on my annual Florida retreat and keep a Buell 'tuber and a BMW airhead down here, and at most they get ridden 2000 miles during the month or two I'm down here. By mileage the Buell ain't due for an oil change, and I hate to dump $20 of 5W-50 synthetic without good cause. Besides, the Buell seems to blow out a quart or so over those thousand or two miles, kinda a de facto oil change. The airhead got a fresh oil change last year, thanks to a leaking fuel valve.

Adding it all up, I've got 3 cars and 7 motorcycles and usually only one car and a couple of the bikes see enough miles to require an annual oil change based on mileage alone. I check oil level regularly and don't hesitate to do an early change if I find oil contaminated by fuel, water, etc.. On several occasions I've had to pull a vehicle out of storage and put it to work when it hasn't had a fluid change in years, and I've had no problems. I did a literature search for any academic research that would justify annual fluid changes, and found none... Perhaps the oil companies have done this research but found no justification for annual changes and thus aren't publicizing it?

So Guzzi techies, is their any scientifically based argument for annual fluid changes?

[Triple Jim]

You'll get a lot of opinions with that question.   

For me, it depends on the conditions the engine in question is stored in.  If it's a climate controlled building that's always at 70 degrees F and dehumidified, I would base the oil changes on mileage alone.  It it's an unheated, uncooled garage, or outdoors under a cover, I'd changed the oil annually, even if the miles added that year were very few.

Last week I met a friend at his compartment of a modern self-storage facility.  He had several motorcycles in there.  Even with a nice concrete floor, all his motorcycles were soaking wet.  It had rained a lot, and had been warm, and I bet the water I saw on the bikes wasn't only on the outside surfaces of the bikes.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I have that situation out here in California. The Mighty Scura sits for months at a time, and gets 1-2000 miles a year. I change the oil annually. Rust is an engine's enemy, and by products of combustion cause it. An air compressor (no combustion) will happily go for years without an oil change.

[Perazzimx14]

As long as the engine gets up to ideal operating temperature for 10 or 20 minutes to boil off the volatiles and moisture prior to storage I go by mileage.

I also find it funny that you have 3 cars, seven bikes and I'm guessing a summer and winter home/place to stay and are worried about $20 in oil.

[Sheepdog]

It's not the oil breaking down that is a problem...it is the condensation that takes place inside the engine case that leads to trouble. Regular use takes care of the H2O, converting it to steam and sending it out through the breather, but if it just sits it causes oxidation and the formation of that mayonnaise-looking "smag" that you sometimes find in old motors.  If I don't run up enough miles for an oil change in 12 months, I change it anyway...

[K250]

Gearheadgirl, pull an oil sample and send it to Blackstone labs.  $28 later you can make a decision based on a lab report.
Definitely the way to go.   

[GearheadGrrrl]

In most cases the oil analysis would cost more than an oil change, but would be tempting to try it on my most ignored engine (Ford Ranger pickup whose Mobil1 hasn't been changed in over 5 years and 2k miles) and see what the results are.

[Aaron D.]

I've pulled apart some car engines over the years, some had sat a while. Never saw a problem with vehicles that were sheltered.

All your engines have Nikasil or equivalent cylinders. I wouldn't worry if it sat a year between getting up to temp.

[canuguzzi]

Change the oil, inexpensive maintenance. At the oil change if you want, take a sample for analysis and base your future oil change schedule on that.

Since you don't know right now, a fresh oil change takes care of the maybe, the oil analysis takes care of the next time. You'll have peace of mind and won't rely on various opinions and they can't all be right.

[v65tt]

my v65tt lives in a heated workshop and does about 4000 miles a year, mix of short 9-10 mile trips and some longer 80-100 a day two up with luggage.

my valve covers have signs of condensation  when removed so I change all of the fluids every 6 months.

We are only looking at 3 1/2 litres of fluids to do the engine/box/bevel and a small bottle of brake fluid to cover the rest!

[Cool Runnings]

Changing fluids for off season storage is a myth.

[Wayne Orwig]

Blinker fluid.

[jetmechmarty]

Blinker fluid.

Synthetic blinker fluid is good for 1,500,000 blinks.  It says nothing about changing it for time.   

I ride year 'round.  In the winter, I get brown froth in the crankcase due to cold and moisture.  I think the first response you got was good, but there are going to be several variables, IMHO.

[K250]

How often do you guys change engine coolant ? More often in hot climates ?

  Dusty

Somewhere in the ten year area is what I do.  Don't have any real strong opinion on it one way or the other. 

[Tom]

Change if you have doubts.

[tpeever]

How often do you guys change engine coolant ? More often in hot climates ?

  Dusty

A little off topic but the maintenance schedule for my 2015 Subaru Outback (all aluminum engine) calls for first coolant change at 11 years or 137,500 miles! I was surprised by that. Similarly, CVT oil does not get changed for the life of the vehicle.

[Nic in Western NYS]

If the level of fluid is good, and it is as clear as new, any reason to change?  I thought the color would darken if it picks up moisture and works as good as new if no moisture in it.  Wiser heads, tell me I'm wrong.

[ohiorider]

I've done the following for the past 30 years, 25 of them on one bike, my 1991 R100GS purchased by me in 1991.
- as season comes to an end, warm up, drain, and replace oil and filter. 
- take a short ride to circulate fresh oil through the engine. Park bike and cry a bit over the season ending.
- if there's no reasonably warm day in the winter, engine stays cold, not started.
- come springtime, I ride the oil and filter I put in late fall to the recommended change mileage.
Couldn't tell you whether that has contributed to the longevity of the GS, or any of my other bikes.

To me, it is simply peace of mind, to know the engine pieces and parts have been bathed in fresh oil prior to being parked, vs sitting in oil with combustion components in it.

In the scheme of things, it may make no difference at all, except how I feel about how I personally treat my machines.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I've done the following for the past 30 years, 25 of them on one bike, my 1991 R100GS purchased by me in 1991.
- as season comes to an end, warm up, drain, and replace oil and filter.
- if there's no reasonably warm day in the winter, engine stays cold, not started.
- come springtime, I ride the oil and filter I put in late fall for the recommended change mileage.
Couldn't tell you whether that has contributed to the longevity of the GS, or any of my other bikes.

To me, it is simply peace of mind, to know the engine pieces and parts have been bathed in fresh oil prior to being parked, vs sitting in oil with combustion components in it.

In the scheme of things, it may make no difference at all, except in how I feel about how I personally treat my machines.

 :1:

[Cool Runnings]

I've done the following for the past 30 years, 25 of them on one bike, my 1991 R100GS purchased by me in 1991.
- as season comes to an end, warm up, drain, and replace oil and filter. 
- take a short ride to circulate fresh oil through the engine. Park bike and cry a bit over the season ending.
- if there's no reasonably warm day in the winter, engine stays cold, not started.
- come springtime, I ride the oil and filter I put in late fall to the recommended change mileage.
Couldn't tell you whether that has contributed to the longevity of the GS, or any of my other bikes.

To me, it is simply peace of mind, to know the engine pieces and parts have been bathed in fresh oil prior to being parked, vs sitting in oil with combustion components in it.

In the scheme of things, it may make no difference at all, except how I feel about how I personally treat my machines.

Waste of money and labor. Used to do the same thing.

[canuguzzi]

I've done the following for the past 30 years, 25 of them on one bike, my 1991 R100GS purchased by me in 1991.
- as season comes to an end, warm up, drain, and replace oil and filter. 
- take a short ride to circulate fresh oil through the engine. Park bike and cry a bit over the season ending.
- if there's no reasonably warm day in the winter, engine stays cold, not started.
- come springtime, I ride the oil and filter I put in late fall to the recommended change mileage.
Couldn't tell you whether that has contributed to the longevity of the GS, or any of my other bikes.

To me, it is simply peace of mind, to know the engine pieces and parts have been bathed in fresh oil prior to being parked, vs sitting in oil with combustion components in it.

In the scheme of things, it may make no difference at all, except how I feel about how I personally treat my machines.

 :1:

Because in the end, its your bike and how you feel about it and that is what matters most.

Unless you start calling it Betty, love it and think it is a woman.

[ohiorider]

:1:

Because in the end, its your bike and how you feel about it and that is what matters most.

Unless you start calling it Betty, love it and think it is a woman.

No .... it isn't that bad!  But I do love any of these machines that treat me well.  Probably wouldn't call her 'Betty,' but perhaps 'Elizabeth!'

Got yer point!

Bob

[tpeever]

Don't have any data but I think it depends A LOT on climate. I live in a pretty dry climate and I don't think any of my oils absorb much moisture. All this talk about "mayonnaise" etc. is foreign to me but I think it's because I live in a dry place.

[krglorioso]

Don't have any data but I think it depends A LOT on climate. I live in a pretty dry climate and I don't think any of my oils absorb much moisture. All this talk about "mayonnaise" etc. is foreign to me but I think it's because I live in a dry place.

Ditto, here in San Diego.  Dusty, I change the Guzzi's coolant when I adjust the valves on my two Hydro Stones. 

Ralph

[MGPilot]

... I live in a pretty dry climate and I don't think any of my oils absorb much moisture. ...

I live in the Seattle area where managing moisture is important.

Although commercial advertising for oil-change products talks about removing oil that has absorbed water, I have searched and have never found a credible, independent source that confirms that oil actually absorbs water. If anyone has a source, I'd like to see it. (This is genuine inquisitiveness, not being argumentative.)

I agree that water can collect in an engine (either from the combustion process blowby or from drawing in moist air from the environment when an engine cools). Engines that are run regularly simply last longer (as most small aircraft owners will tell you).

I also agree that moisture in an engine can get mixed into the oil, increasing corrosion and wear. (Which just reinforces the need to run engines to full operating temps [preferably for at least 30-60 minutes] before shutting them down.)

Those are different from oil absorbing water.

If anyone has a source please share.

[Scud]

The topic is fluids, and most of the discussion has been about oil. Remember that brakes have fluid too - and the DOT 3 and 4 types absorb water, which lowers the boiling point of the fluid. If you're riding with old fluid that has water in it, you are more like to suffer brake fade. I think the case for changing brake fluid annually is more compelling than that for changing engine and driveline oil annually.

Perhaps it is time to order speed bleeders for your 7 bikes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid

Actually, Wikipedia, now, at this point in time, has a bitchen table with data, so.
*the above sentence is my response to the recent thread about words and phrases that should be banned.

[tpeever]

Don't have any data but I think it depends A LOT on climate. I live in a pretty dry climate and I don't think any of my oils absorb much moisture. All this talk about "mayonnaise" etc. is foreign to me but I think it's because I live in a dry place.

Should have clarified oils versus other types of fluids although I think I may also get away with longer intervals on brake fluid changes compared to more humid climates.