Any difference in state of tune of B11 and G11?

[ohiorider]

Did the Griso 2v 1100 and Breva 1100 use an identical engine (same state of tune,) or did Moto Guzzi configure the Griso to have higher performance?

[Kev m]

Did the Griso 2v 1100 and Breva 1100 use an identical engine (same state of tune,) or did Moto Guzzi configure the Griso to have higher performance?

I can't say if there were different camshafts off the top of my head (though a check of Harper's OEM parts list might answer that), but exhaust system and muffler differences and probably different mapping, and possibly different gearing (I believe the B11, B12, and Norge had different final drive ratios) all seem to show in different rwhp ratings.

[ohiorider]

I can't say if there were different camshafts off the top of my head (though a check of Harper's OEM parts list might answer that), but exhaust system and muffler differences and probably different mapping, and possibly different gearing (I believe the B11, B12, and Norge had different final drive ratios) all seem to show in different rwhp ratings.

Thanks for the Harper's suggestion.  At this time its simply a curiosity thing.

[guzziownr]

Reviews commented on the Griso's lower gearing.  No mention of a higher state of tune.

[Moto]

Same camshaft and throttle body; different air box, filter, and exhaust. Griso had 4.5 more rwhp, per MCN.

Lower gearing per se doesn't affect rwhp; it's a measure of work per unit of time.

[flip]

Didn't the Breva 1100 have the tallest gearing of the CARC bikes?

[Kev m]

Didn't the Breva 1100 have the tallest gearing of the CARC bikes?

It's been a while, but I think the Norge or B12 Sport was even taller geared.

[ohiorider]

Same camshaft and throttle body; different air box, filter, and exhaust. Griso had 4.5 more rwhp, per MCN.

Lower gearing per se doesn't affect rwhp; it's a measure of work per unit of time.

Yep  -  confirmed the cams are the same ..... same PN on Harpers for the G11 and B11 camshafts.

[guzziownr]

Same camshaft and throttle body; different air box, filter, and exhaust. Griso had 4.5 more rwhp, per MCN.

Measured at the brochure?

Lower gearing per se doesn't affect rwhp; it's a measure of work per unit of time.

Professor, is this going to be on the final?

[Moto]

Measured at the brochure?

Professor, is this going to be on the final?

Measured by Motorcycle Consumer News, on the same dyno, four months apart.

You bet your bippy it will be on the final.

Moto

[Moto]

And the ECUs have different part numbers. I think they are the same model with different software, but I don't know.

So, intake, exhaust, and ECU must account for the 4.5 hp.

Moto

[Kiwi Dave]

It's been a while, but I think the Norge or B12 Sport was even taller geared.

No, the Breva 1100 was the taller geared version.  The Norge, Griso, and 1200 Sport are all lower geared.  (for the 2V).

[Kev m]

No, the Breva 1100 was the taller geared version.  The Norge, Griso, and 1200 Sport are all lower geared.  (for the 2V).

I could have sworn that JohnVT or someone else insisted one of them was taller... But I'll take your word for it, <shrugs>

[guzziownr]

You bet your bippy it will be on the final.

Moto

Verry interesting!

[Vasco DG]

Roy is correct. The B11 is the tallest geared. The 4.5 HP difference is almost certainly down to how badly one was tuned compared to the other. While the pipes and induction system will make a difference it is unlikely to make that much of a difference on otherwise identical engines.

As for the ECU's. Yes, different mapping, but all the W5AM units used on Guzzis are interchangeable, they just require having the correct map loaded. Things like the speedo correction factors for ABS bikes are different which makes it fun as you can go really, really fast just going out of the driveway! :D

Pete

[Moto]

The 4.5 HP difference is almost certainly down to how badly one was tuned compared to the other. While the pipes and induction system will make a difference it is unlikely to make that much of a difference on otherwise identical engines.

Yes, no doubt you're right. I just found reviews of both by Rider magazine, in which the Breva came out 1.2 hp ahead.

[guzzisteve]

Yep  -  confirmed the cams are the same ..... same PN on Harpers for the G11 and B11 camshafts.

If you look up the Vintage internals, it's also the same motor parts, same homogenized crap

[Kev m]

it's also the same motor parts, same homogenized crap

That strikes me as a strange attitude, mind if I ask why you say that?

[guzzisteve]

There was a time w/hot rods had different cam, heads, etc, not just some different fueling.
 

[Kev m]

There was a time w/hot rods had different cam, heads, etc, not just some different fueling.

You can still find that, but not from a small company with minimal sales who only charges another grand or two for one model over the other.

[ohiorider]

You can still find that, but not from a small company with minutes sales who only charges another grand or two for one model over the other.

There's a company that just may be doing that.  Though I haven't yet seen a good set of specs on the new Bonnies and Thruxtons, Triumph alludes to the 1200cc Bonneville T120 as having a "high torque" engine vs the Thruxton's "high power" engine.  When we attended the showing of the new bikes in early December 2015, the factory reps also made a point of the difference.  Unfortunately, unless it's been published within the past few days, I've seen no comparative dyno charts or a side by side comparison chart.

[Kev m]

There's a company that just may be doing that.  Though I haven't yet seen a good set of specs on the new Bonnies and Thruxtons, Triumph alludes to the 1200cc Bonneville T120 as having a "high torque" engine vs the Thruxton's "high power" engine.  When we attended the showing of the new bikes in early December 2015, the factory reps also made a point of the difference.  Unfortunately, unless it's been published within the past few days, I've seen no comparative dyno charts or a side by side comparison chart.

Yup, and Triumph WW annual sales figures are what in the 55k range or as much as 11x MG's annual sales.

[guzzisteve]

They (Triumph) just had a schooling on the new motors here this past week, at their newest dealer here in GA. Massive amount of room at that place. GA needed a good Tri dealer in their home based state.