V7 Scrambler Exhaust Options Arrow vs. Agostini

[pocphil]

We decided to go ahead and do a head-to-head comparison between the Arrow Scrambler Exhaust ($1724) and the Agostini  Scrambler Exhaust ($1200).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aX9xji0MLA

The Arrow does not give you the option of a removable dB killer.

As far as the Arrow goes, we'll be interested to see how it dissipates heat. I've ridden the Agostini on some very warm days and you could lay your hands on the heat shields after 30 minutes of spirited riding.

This is our first experience with the Arrow Scrambler pipe, I will keep you posted.

[JeffOlson]

Thanks for doing that and posting a video of the results!

The Agostini system for the win!

On my Norge, with the DB killer in, my Agostini can was quieter than stock. With the DB killer removed, it was louder than stock, but not obnoxiously loud like some Harley-Davidson. It had a manly, authoritative sound, just like the Agostini in your video.

[bigtex]

Good info, thanks for the video.  Look forward to more impressions.

Does Guzzi specify a different map for the Arrow, and did you need anything different for the Agostini?

[dedave]

I'm thinking of taking option 3, just some carbon fiber slip ons  like Akropovic and angle them up from the stock connector on each side. Eliminate the passenger pegs and mount to that part of the frame, then get a nice racer seat or cush solo seat.

I didn't care for the sound on either pipe.

Thanks for posting it up, it helps when deciding what route to take. Of the two, I did like the Agostini better. The arrow makes the Guzzi sound like a sewing machine.

[pocphil]

Keep in mind the audio is coming from the microphone on my Iphone - it's a mediocre representation of what's going on. The consensus around here is Arrow=Stock
Agostini dB Killers IN = Look at you Mr. Rumbly-Pants
Agostini dB Killers OUT = Sploosh aka I'm having a crisis.


They do not specify a different map, and the Arrow is the "advertised" exhaust in all of their US marketing materials. As of today there is no specific "arrow" or "aftermarket" map in the dealer PADS system for either the Mk1 or Mk2.

My method is to install the pipe, install the latest map, do a TPS / adaptive parameters reset and then let the bikes adaptive parameters sort things out. I'm sure there are MUCH better ways to get a perfect map on these bikes, but alas, I am a dealer, and that means keeping things stock, (yeah, I know that's a total cop out, but you can go map-crazy once it's in your garage and I'm no longer responsible for trying to get your warranty claims approved).

Just a heads up to folks considering buying the Scrambler Kit in the US Market, it does NOT come with Tires. They are an optional extra. I would much rather NOT use the tires Guzzi is shipping out to their US dealers. There are plenty of fantastic options out there for every budget. Remember the spokes require tubes and the cast wheels don't. We've got Kenda's on our shop-scrambler and they're cheap and cheerful and mounted up easy. If you're doing a scrambler and need sizes give me a call at the shop.

[Cool Runnings]

Thanks for doing that and posting a video of the results!

The Agostini system for the win!

On my Norge, with the DB killer in, my Agostini can was quieter than stock. With the DB killer removed, it was louder than stock, but not obnoxiously loud like some Harley-Davidson. It had a manly, authoritative sound, just like the Agostini in your video.

Does the Norge pop now on deceleration?

[rob-mg]

Just a heads up to folks considering buying the Scrambler Kit in the US Market, it does NOT come with Tires. They are an optional extra. I would much rather NOT use the tires Guzzi is shipping out to their US dealers. There are plenty of fantastic options out there for every budget. Remember the spokes require tubes and the cast wheels don't. We've got Kenda's on our shop-scrambler and they're cheap and cheerful and mounted up easy. If you're doing a scrambler and need sizes give me a call at the shop.

First, thanks for the video comparing the two exhausts. I actually saw it before seeing this thread.

That said, what are you saying about the Pirelli Sport Demon tires that the V7 IIs ship with? Do you have problems with them, or only in the "scrambler" configuration? If the latter, is anybody taking these "Moto Guzzi Garage" bikes seriously as scramblers, other than in Brooklyn?

[JeffOlson]

Does the Norge pop now on deceleration?

Yes, it still did (though it sounded much better while doing so!).

[fossil]

Rob,

the Pirellis are not even able to cope with slightly wet grass or gravel. Not to mention cool weather. They are acceptable on a good road when it´s warm.

I like to ride on earth roads (not offroad!) with my V7 Stone. Normally a nice thing to do with this bike. But the tyres!

[pocphil]

 The scrambler kit is pictured with the knobby tires on the corporate website, consumers should note that the scrambler kit does not come with knobby tires, they are the responsibility of the buyer.

 The Pirelli tires that are on the bike from the factory are fine Street tires.

 The tires that are listed in the accessories column for the V7 scrambler are in my opinion of suspicious Asian origin.

 As far as the usually incendiary question "but how is it as a scrambler?" Here's the data:

Lighter than A triumph scrambler,  higher ground clearance, way better grunt down low, narrower at the bottom too.
  More powerful, lighter and More ground clearance than a Honda CL450.

 Scrambler has always been more fashion over function,  to go in the dirt you need a proper dirtbike. Any motorcycle can be ridden in the dirt if you do it carefully and slowly enough.  I guess it depends on how much you actually plan on riding in the dirt.   It's always easy to criticize something  that is embodying a style.  How many Paris/Dakar BMWs will ever actually go more than a few hundred feet off Road?  I certainly don't expect to see safety wire and an oil catch pan every time my eyes fall on a café racer.

[rob-mg]

The scrambler kit is pictured with the knobby tires on the corporate website, consumers should note that the scrambler kit does not come with knobby tires, they are the responsibility of the buyer.

 The Pirelli tires that are on the bike from the factory are fine Street tires.

 The tires that are listed in the accessories column for the V7 scrambler are in my opinion of suspicious Asian origin.

 As far as the usually incendiary question "but how is it as a scrambler?" Here's the data:

Lighter than A triumph scrambler,  higher ground clearance, way better grunt down low, narrower at the bottom too.
  More powerful, lighter and More ground clearance than a Honda CL450.

 Scrambler has always been more fashion over function,  to go in the dirt you need a proper dirtbike. Any motorcycle can be ridden in the dirt if you do it carefully and slowly enough.  I guess it depends on how much you actually plan on riding in the dirt.   It's always easy to criticize something  that is embodying a style.  How many Paris/Dakar BMWs will ever actually go more than a few hundred feet off Road?  I certainly don't expect to see safety wire and an oil catch pan every time my eyes fall on a caf� racer.

The fact that the Moto Guzzi US web site shows only the Special in its scrambler guise, and doesn't even show the standard Special, just makes me smile.

It's such an obvious attempt to piggy back on Ducati's success with its "scrambler", and just comes off as cynical.

As I said, hard to imagine anybody outside Brooklyn taking this seriously, and those who do are in my view likely to wind up with the Ducati anyway.

Beyond that, it's maybe worth pointing out that putting knobby tires on the V7 is more than a fashion statement. It compromises grip on the street.

Personally, I don't think that the attempt by Moto Guzzi US (no other jurisdiction is doing this) to sell the Special as a pseudo dirt bike is helping the brand.

As someone who can buy in the US or Canada, I bought my 2016 Special in Toronto rather than New York because the Toronto dealer had a standard Special on the floor, which no New York area dealer has (including, of course, Piaggio's own store) to this minute.

Still waiting for Moto Guzzi to offer stuff that is actually useful, such as a centre stand and engine guards.

[BoatDoc]

Thanks for posting the comparison, it does not make the Arrow seem like a good deal.

I believe I saw someplace that the accessory "Scrambler" tires are from Golden Tyre and in looking at their website, http://www.goldentyre.com/en/
it looks like the rear is an "enduro on/off" GT201 and the front is a supermoto street tire GT260. Golden Tyre seems to be Italian but I'm not sure where they are made. Some online reviews are pretty good, but sparse.

Perhaps the Pirelli Scorpion Trail 2 tires would be a good alternative although for dual sport use they look like a 98/2, where the 2 is hard packed, dry, dirt!

I think the Guzzi Scramber is a pretty neat concept and looks good. Is it a dirt bike? Not a chance in comparison to a modern dirt bike. Is it better off-road than a Harley ElectrGlide Classic? You betcha, and one of them holds the record for the most countries visited, via mostly dirt roads, and they were two-up! It all depends on how hard you want to push it and how good you are. I recall a few of us pushing really hard in our "adventure bikes" one day in Mongolia, cruising along the sandy single track at about 50-60 mph when we got passed by a couple on their way to market on a Honda knock-off 200 street bike!

[rocker59]

The fact that the Moto Guzzi US web site shows only the Special in its scrambler guise, and doesn't even show the standard Special, just makes me smile.

It's such an obvious attempt to piggy back on Ducati's success with its "scrambler", and just comes off as cynical.
 

It's easy to forget these things, so maybe you don't remember, but Guzzi has been messing around with the Scrambler idea for awhile now.  This prototype was shown at the Piaggio International Dealers' Meeting four years ago:



And, in 2015 at EICMA, they finally showed the production ready "2016 Stornello".


One of our dealers can correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the 2016 V7 II Specials coming to the USA are coming with the Arrow exhaust, side covers, and a couple other items, to be installed at PDI by the dealers.  So, in a way, all USA V7 II Specials are scramblers.  A stop-gap measure, I'm sure, awaiting availability of the Stornello.

[pocphil]

The V7 Specials are coming in as Specials  -  No scrambler parts.

It's up to the dealer to order the "Scrambler Kit" and build the bike into a scrambler. Adding the price of the Scrambler kit brings the bike up to the price of a V7 Racer.

For what it's worth we have 2 Specials at our shop and 2 Scramblers (one of each color)  - The Scramblers are selling better.