2004 Cali HYDRO. Engine Noise and Oil For Warmer Climates?

[Tom H]

Well, I think that I have found the source of my engine noise. Too thin of oil? Per the recommendations, I am using Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic. When I bought the bike I think it had Motul 20W-50 or 60.

I looked through the old posts on oil for a Hydro, but most were 5 or more years old. I did find this and I think I have the same problem:

"Wish I could give you the scientific answer but it amounts to what my ears tell me. When I go for a long cruise in the hotter weather a light tapping sound develops. Probably not much to worry about but when using the 20/50 I do not get the tapping. Just a comfort thing I guess."


When I changed to the Shell, I seemed to get some odd engine noises at idle when the bike was hot after a freeway ride. When cold or after about a 15 minute rest, the noise would go away until hot again.

The noise seems almost like it's in the lifter area? Yes the upgrade has been done. Could the oil be too thin for my climate in southern California?

Not another oil thread, but.... What brand and weight oil do you use in the warmer climates? What is the most recent choice other than Rotella?

I'd like to stay with synthetic. I was thinking of trying 10W-40 in either Mobil 1 or Valvoline. I've had good luck with Valvoline 40W dino in my old bikes.

Thank you very much again!!!!!!
Tom

[Wayne Orwig]

Rotella 5w-40.
Only 120,000 miles on my hydraulic EV..
When does this noise start?

[StuCorpe]

I have been using Amsoil 5W-40 since the final recall was done on my 03.

[Tom H]

Rodekyll, I understand the weight. The SG is the rating right?

OMG, the bike does not make the sound until after a 70-75mph freeway ride of about 15 miles. My commute consists of a 2 mile 35-40mph run, then about 15 miles of 70mph then about 5 miles at 55mph. Then reverse this back to home. 2 miles all is quiet to the freeway, get off freeway and noise is there. Do the 5 mile and all is quiet, get off freeway noise is there. 1/2 mile off freeway on the return trip, make a 15+/- minute stop and the noise is gone. It does seem heat related.
I did have the tank off this weekend looking for anything that could make a noise. That was fun removing the tank, NOT!! The pliers that were in a post are NOT the correct tool. Now that I know what it needs, the next time I take the tank off, I'll make/modify a tool and post the results. I also removed the valve covers looking for anything loose. Nothing on all the above.

StuCorpe, from MI. It's been in the 75 degree range out here. When it get's that hot there, all is still good?

Thank you,
Tom

[egschade]

Running the 20w50 may have damaged the lifters from too much pressure. Try the 10w60 as suggested and if that doesn't work then you may need to take a closer look at those lifters.

Also check to see that the recall work on the lifters was performed. My hydro was very quiet on the 5w-40 so I don't know if you have an issue or not. Here's the link to the GuzziTech discussion: http://archive.guzzitech.com/Hydra-valve-DR.html

[Wayne Orwig]

I have to wonder if you have a lifter that is bad. Leaking down too fast with hot oil.

[Cam3512]

I had a n '03 Hydro Stone.  The book called for 5/40 so the thin oil could reach the lifters after a cold start.

Stick with that, and wear ear plugs.

[Mr Revhead]

What kind of noise? Change with revs?

[pete roper]

Running the 20w50 may have damaged the lifters from too much pressure. Try the 10w60 as suggested and if that doesn't work then you may need to take a closer look at those lifters.

Also check to see that the recall work on the lifters was performed. My hydro was very quiet on the 5w-40 so I don't know if you have an issue or not. Here's the link to the GuzziTech discussion: http://archive.guzzitech.com/Hydra-valve-DR.html

Oil pressure has nothing to do with lifter pump up. They self prime from a sump,of oil surrounding them. This is the reason for the light weight oil specification. In a warmer climate this will be less important but unless there is a mechanical fault a heavier oil will be counter productive to the system and if there is a problem all it will do is mask it.

Pete

[brlawson]

10/60 SG.  'nuff said.

+1


Living here in the Southeast I encounter the same issue. Since the recall I have been running Mobile 1 20/50 and it's been doing well for the last 50k. 10/60 was not available at the time.

Stick with that, and wear ear plugs.

This is never good advice. This is what folks told me when I had concerns about a certain flat tappet engine.

[Cam3512]

+1


Living here in the Southeast I encounter the same issue. Since the recall I have been running Mobile 1 20/50 and it's been doing well for the last 50k. 10/60 was not available at the time.

This is never good advice. This is what folks told me when I had concerns about a certain flat tappet engine.

I'm assuming the PO has had the "fix" done on the engine.  I'm not suggesting ignoring an impending problem, but hydro engines tappets are not totally silent.   

[StuCorpe]

All good in the summer here, hottest weather I was out in was 90°F.

[Tom H]

As far as the "fixes" for the Hydro's go, all appear to have been done on my VIN. On the Guzzi web site I think it was you can enter your VIN and see what campaign's have been done. For my bike it only lists the trippletree. From my understanding from reading about this, if it does not have anything else listed, it was done at the factory. Only bikes that had to have things done at the dealer are listed.
I cannot verify the cam itself was done, but the valve spring retaining caps are the aluminum color, it has the two disc clutch.

After trying to chase down this noise, the best I can tell is that it's in the valve train. I know that hydro lifters do not make a silent valve train, they just minimize the noise. From the limited amount that I understand about hydro lifters in a car or bike is that when they go bad, they make noise at all rpm.
Also I do not "remember" the noise before I changed to Rotella 5W-40. It does vary with the rpm, but is most noticeable at IDLE and seems to quiet down as the rpm's increase.
While I had the oil pan off I tried to get a good look at the cam, the one lobe I could see looked fine.

This morning when I started the bike up, all was quiet, just normal sounds of a nice running engine. The engine was cold from sitting all night. On the freeway, I could not hear anything other than a decent running engine. Once off the freeway and making the 5 mile section, I stopped at a light and at idle the noise was there.

I plan to change my oil to either Mobil 1 syn. 10W-40 or 20W-50. I'll try to find the 10W-60, if I can locally, I'll try that.

Thanks again!
Tom

[guzzisteve]

If you are worried about it, you could readjust the clearance w/slug lifter from install kit. If fix was done you have a locknut on adjusters.
I have done this on fixed Hydros already w/no problem.

[Cam3512]

To my knowledge, Guzzi didn't do the cam/valve train fix on any bike before it left the factory.  All were done LATER at dealers with the proper kit.

Correct me if I'm wrong - Pete, Steve?

[Wayne Orwig]

The fix came out almost two years after the hydraulics were discontinued.

[Tom H]

The bike is a 2004 EV Touring. Edit, per VIN, workshop manual and title all is 2004 no month specified.

The rockers are not the dark metal color that I saw in a picture comparing the two, but a bronzeish color. The adjusters on the rockers have the tips broken off (as in there is no flat tab like on my old Eldo to grab) and a standard nut to lock it (just like my old Eldo). The valve springs have the aluminum keeper/hat on them.

Somewhere I thought I read that if a campaign/fix had been required it would show up under my VIN on either Guzzi or Piaggio web site. I went there and found only the trippletree and that it was done. So either the valve area was fixed and not reported, or it was not needed as it had already been done before the bike was released for sale. My clutch has the 2 disc flywheel per my local repair shop, he normally does not work on the new bikes but does know them. He mainly works on the old ones and has been very helpful with those when I have been stuck or needed a second opinion.

I was looking into the 10W-60 oil and found Castrol Edge or Motul. Both are about $13 per litre or quart. Like Pete said, I don't want to hide the problem, but it sounds like I'm not alone with the noise using 5W-40 at least in warmer climates. I guess I'm looking for a compromise between the 5W and the 20W to quiet it down a bit. I also do not want to kill my engine with the wrong oil wheather that be 5W, 10W, or 20W.

Again thank you!!
Tom

[Mr Revhead]

It might be a good idea to make sure you know what those numbers mean. The 2nd number is the vital one. That the viscosity at operating temperature. The first number is determined from a different test and is its cold viscosity (very simple explanation)
The lower viscosity cold number is as mentioned already so the lifters will be fed oil straight away.
I would not under any circumstances change to a thicker start up oil.
If you need to thicken the oil to cure a noise, you are band aiding an issue. An issue which might end up leaving you walking.
First thing I'd be doing is establishing if the noise you have is actually abnormal. All engines will sound different when fully warm

[Cam3512]

It might be a good idea to make sure you know what those numbers mean. The 2nd number is the vital one. That the viscosity at operating temperature. The first number is determined from a different test and is its cold viscosity (very simple explanation)
The lower viscosity cold number is as mentioned already so the lifters will be fed oil straight away.
I would not under any circumstances change to a thicker start up oil.
If you need to thicken the oil to cure a noise, you are band aiding an issue. An issue which might end up leaving you walking.
First thing I'd be doing is establishing if the noise you have is actually abnormal. All engines will sound different when fully warm

This!

[Tom H]

It might be a good idea to make sure you know what those numbers mean. The 2nd number is the vital one. That the viscosity at operating temperature. The first number is determined from a different test and is its cold viscosity (very simple explanation)
The lower viscosity cold number is as mentioned already so the lifters will be fed oil straight away.
I would not under any circumstances change to a thicker start up oil.
If you need to thicken the oil to cure a noise, you are band aiding an issue. An issue which might end up leaving you walking.
First thing I'd be doing is establishing if the noise you have is actually abnormal. All engines will sound different when fully warm

Well, you did get me to do some reading on how multi weight oil works. I know what the low number was, but always thought the high was for (protects like a ??) not flows like a ??. Very interesting reading.

The whole reason that I had a question about the noise that I hear and oil is because I changed from what a dealer had serviced it with, 20W-50 Motul,  to the correct oil 5W-40. If I didn't change my own oil and took it to this Guzzi dealer, I would still be blissfully running the heavier oil and never noticed what is most likely a normal noise for this engine. I wish I had someone here with the same engine so I could hear how their bike sounds.

I will have to rethink my oil replacement choice.

Sometimes ignorance IS bliss.

Thanks again!!
Tom

[Cam3512]

Tom, couple quick questions.  You say your engine was built in 2002, and has the dual plate clutch.  Is the black case coating smooth, or rough and crinkled?  Fuel pump inside the tank, or outside?

[gfritzmeier]

I bought my first Guzzi, 2003 Aluminum, 3 years ago. Bought with out having even rode one. While riding home from Indiana I was concerned about ticking noise and horrible shuttering while turning it up.  Stopped at shop in Madison and was told two things: the ticking I was hearing was normal and I had to learn how to drive a this Guzzi. Both OK with me. The shuttering at lower rpm's still bothered me though. I put on much louder mufflers and haven't heard a tick since. I then read the Motorcycle Diaries on MGNOC and found out the shuttering could be overcome with alterations made to airbox lid. I first called the shop in the article and was satisfied that doing so was OK to do. I love the way I now have low end torque and couldn't be happier the way it can be ridden in town.
That said I do have an issue and I'm guessing I need to have it remapped but would like your opinions. While going thru the gears fast it starts missing? at between 6000 and 6500 rpms.  Remapping be the answer you think???
As long as I'm on this thread I forgot to mention that I use the 5-40 rotella and have never had a issue.

[Tom H]

Tom, couple quick questions.  You say your engine was built in 2002, and has the dual plate clutch.  Is the black case coating smooth, or rough and crinkled?  Fuel pump inside the tank, or outside?

Smooth black paint. Pump inside the tank. And I miss typed, per the VIN and the updated service manual, and the digit before the M is 4. So it should be a 2004 build. Somewhere I thought I found an engine build date of 2002. Maybe while trying to find parts for THIS model. The title also says 2004. Sometimes I get confused with dates  My old bikes were much simpler!

Tom