Author Topic: Quota Oil Leak (Read 6850 times)

Lesman · « **on:** May 23, 2016, 01:26:01 PM »

I recently had my Quota apart for maintenance/enhancement/other stuff. My Quota was leaking from the timing cover and it appeared to be weaping near the drain plug/bell housing. I replaced the timing cover gasket(old one was definitely bad). I replaced it with a paper gasket that I bought last year. I destroyed the new seal during installation.I bought a new seal/timing cover gasket as a spare. The new timing cover gasket is metal. The one that I installed was paper. I put a new gasket on the oil pan. I put a new copper ring gasket on the drain plug. 2 items also worth mentioning. I had 4 aluminum spacers welded to the bottom of oil pan for a future skid plate. Ihad the oil pan and timing cover powercoated in a black wrinkle(looks great). I go riding yesterday. It's raining for 125 miles out of the 175 miles that I rode yesterday. At 125 miles no evidence of a leak. I get home there is weeping at the bottom of the bell housing.
I wipe it off. I wipe it later,it stops leaking. When I go out this morning. The timing cover has a nice leak running out from the bottom. It's right at the front of the oil pan dripping down the oil pan. So it appears the rear oil leak is coming from the front of the bike running down the oil pan. When it gets to the back of oil pan the wind appears to push the oil up.
The old seal and the new seal that I installed on the timing cover don't appear to leak oil. (Larry at MPH showed me a trick way to install the new seal without screwing it up).
How to fix it right? I've owned the bike for 5 years this leak will not go way. The bike was 10 years old with 4500 miles. It sat for long periods of time. When I bought it. I took it apart to clean it . I was apart for 13 months. I just don't seeing a gasket failing after 175 miles.

pehayes · « **Reply #1 on:** May 23, 2016, 04:49:35 PM »

What kind of alternator does this model have? My 98 EV had a front oil leak from the timing cover seal. Replaced the seal and it still leaked. I finally realized that there is an o-ring inside the spacer that spins on the seal surface. It really irked me that the timing cover seal and the o-ring were not sold as a set. Surely they should BOTH be changed at any sign of failure. Also irked me that the timing cover seal is displayed on Table 1 of the parts catalog while the related o-ring can't be found until Table 38. See the image to show that o-ring #8 resides INSIDE of the alternator spacer #9. Said o-ring was hard as a rock and cracked. Replaced that o-ring and all is good.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Lesman · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2016, 05:39:39 PM »

One more mention. I'm am running Mobile 1 15-50. I didn't replace the o ring.It appeared OK. My original seal was good. The gasket was definitely bad. I screwed up the original seal while removing it. The new seal I screwed up installing it. The 2nd new seal went in great. If the seal and the o ring leaked. There would be oil behind the rotor. It would be leaking out the rotor cover.The rotor area was pretty clean and dry. Mine is leaking out the timing cover and or the oil pan.
The new timing cover is metal not paper. I'm looking into a silicone oil pan gasket. I can change the timing cover gasket & seal in 1-2 hours. Need to drop the exhaust and remove an engine bolt. The whole point of this thread is why did this happen? What did I do wrong? What should I do make an improvement in my process. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the wrenching...at times. I don't enjoy redoing a repair because I did some thing wrong and then repeat the same mistake . I do not like a motorcycle leaking oil.
In the olden days I had 1973 Sportster.It really could mark a spot.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2016, 06:46:29 PM »

Quote

The whole point of this thread is why did this happen? What did I do wrong? What should I do make an improvement in my process.

Sorry, but it's hard to tell from many miles away. <shrug> I would think you'll just have to open it up again and find out. Education is expensive.

And.. Experience is a tough teacher. It gives you the test first, and then the lesson. Trust me.. I've had many lessons.

Lesman · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2016, 10:44:26 AM »

A quick look last night revealed that all the bolts on the bottom of the timing cover had loosened up. I only checked those bolts. In the past I did not use Thread Locker for this particular application. Should I be putting Thread Locker on the Timing Cover bolts and the Oil Pan bolts?

pehayes · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2016, 11:03:34 AM »

You used a new gasket. With several heating and cooling cycles, that gasket would get gradually compressed and result in apparently loosening bolts. I doubt the bolts actually moved to get more loose. I would really advise against any threadlocker here. I have never had such bolts loosen spontaneously. I have on occasion had bolts that seized into position and wrung their heads off when trying to remove. Just re-snug the bolts and check periodically. Careful on the torque as these are all easy to strip.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2016, 11:07:59 AM »

FWIW, *removable* thread locker is a pretty good anti seize.. at least that's what they told me when I went to a Loc Tite class back in the day.

Lesman · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2016, 12:42:23 PM »

I was planning to use "medium" Threadlocker. I would clean each bolt and thread bore. I did 8 lbs when I torqued the bolts on the oil pan and the timing chain cover. I've seen 12 lbs strip bolts on a BMW.

twhitaker · « **Reply #8 on:** May 25, 2016, 04:07:29 PM »

Here is a handy torque chart. Although it's for Loops with a few exceptions the torques are the same. As in all M8 threads are torqued to 22 lb/ft and all M6 at 7

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_torque_specifications.html

Lesman · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2016, 05:56:42 PM »

On the Quota part of This Old Tractor. The torque is listed as a range of 6-9 lbs. I picked 8lbs. I retorqued all bolts & plus lock tite this morning. If I hadn't replaced the timing cover gasket myself. I would say that the torque on the bottom area bolts were in the 1-3 lb range. The ones on top through the middle area seemed tighter. The one on bottom area were just barely tight. The two bolts behind the rotor were fine. I'm going riding tonight before the weekly monsoons start to check for leaks.

Lesman · « **Reply #10 on:** May 30, 2016, 07:04:00 PM »

Timing chain cover is nice & tight and not leaking. Oil pan nice and tight .. not leaking. I now have some weeping from the weep hole area of the bell housing. Some times there is a leak (drop or three). Other times nothing. I thought it might be residue from the cam chain cover gusher flowing down the oil pan. I check the hose on top of the bell housing area. It appears "OK" Am I down to a rear main seal leak or a gasket off the rear main bearing area?

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2016, 06:31:55 AM »

Quote from: Lesman on May 30, 2016, 07:04:00 PM

Timing chain cover is nice & tight and not leaking. Oil pan nice and tight .. not leaking. I now have some weeping from the weep hole area of the bell housing. Some times there is a leak (drop or three). Other times nothing. I thought it might be residue from the cam chain cover gusher flowing down the oil pan. I check the hose on top of the bell housing area. It appears "OK" Am I down to a rear main seal leak or a gasket off the rear main bearing area?

Are you sure it's engine oil?

Lesman · « **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2016, 07:50:21 AM »

I was absolutely sure until you asked me. There is none right now to check. I rode 160 miles this weekend. I saw 3 drops . I cleaned it. I didn't check the smell of the oil. I don't know if it's trans oil. If it's 90wt? What's the possible prognosis?
The bike is still a pup with 18.5k miles.

Lesman · « **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2016, 08:23:24 PM »

Engine Oil. If it isn't residual oil from the previous leak?.......next steps ? and should I worry or obsess over the oil?

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #14 on:** June 01, 2016, 05:26:44 AM »

Quote from: Lesman on May 31, 2016, 08:23:24 PM

Engine Oil. If it isn't residual oil from the previous leak?.......next steps ? and should I worry or obsess over the oil?

Well, a little oil is like a little blood. Looks bad, doesn't mean it's terminal.

Just the same, it's aggravating. I'd clean everything really well and watch it. You can use the baby powder or foot powder trick to see if it's coming from somewhere else. If it *is* coming from the bell housing, there's only one way of finding out where it's leaking.

Lesman · « **Reply #15 on:** June 01, 2016, 12:14:13 PM »

The Timing Chain Cover has been annoying for about year(It didn't seem like that long until I look at my maintenace log). It became AMF Harley esque about ninety days +/- ago. About 120 days ago my left valve cover gasket just sprung a massive leak when I was out riding.It covered my left leg in oil. I have checked the flatness of the valve cover, timing chain cover and oil pan on marble slab that I have in my garage. Now that I'm near no oil nirvana. I would rather ride right now. My only concern is if this is my real main seal. How much longer before my clutch is fouled and I need to replace it?

Best Regards,
Les

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #16 on:** June 01, 2016, 03:21:17 PM »

Quote from: Lesman on June 01, 2016, 12:14:13 PM

The Timing Chain Cover has been annoying for about year(It didn't seem like that long until I look at my maintenace log). It became AMF Harley esque about ninety days +/- ago. About 120 days ago my left valve cover gasket just sprung a massive leak when I was out riding.It covered my left leg in oil. I have checked the flatness of the valve cover, timing chain cover and oil pan on marble slab that I have in my garage. Now that I'm near no oil nirvana. I would rather ride right now. My only concern is if this is my real main seal. How much longer before my clutch is fouled and I need to replace it?

Best Regards,
Les

Transmission oil is more likely to foul your clutch. A leak at the rear main gets thrown against the side of the bell housing, gravity takes over and it goes to the bottom to eventually leak out.
So. I'd say a long time.

Lesman · « **Reply #17 on:** June 01, 2016, 06:48:16 PM »

Thanks

Idontwantapickle · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2016, 07:29:38 PM »

Les,
In many cases engine oil at the bottom of the clutch housing is coming from the breather hoses at the top of the housing. The oil from them will drop down inside that area. Check those hoses and connections before stripping your bike to pull the clutch off. At the age your bike is they may well be the culprit.
Hunter

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2016, 08:25:02 PM »

Quote from: Idontwantapickle on June 01, 2016, 07:29:38 PM

Les,
In many cases engine oil at the bottom of the clutch housing is coming from the breather hoses at the top of the housing. The oil from them will drop down inside that area. Check those hoses and connections before stripping your bike to pull the clutch off. At the age your bike is they may well be the culprit.
Hunter

He said..

Quote

I check the hose on top of the bell housing area. It appears "OK"

Lesman · « **Reply #20 on:** June 02, 2016, 07:15:31 AM »

Now I am confused.I check "a" hose. There are more than 1 hose? I just visually checked the hose and rather quickly.I'm just trying to understand the breather hose setup. 2 hoses run from the cylinder/head area to the frame then to the air cleaner box then back to rear of the engine? The hose back to the engine can leak(outside or inside the case?)causing oil to leak in the bell housing area?

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #21 on:** June 02, 2016, 07:43:10 AM »

If the big hose on the top of the bell housing is cracked, oil will travel down it and get inside the bell housing, making you think it is a rear main leak.

Lesman · « **Reply #22 on:** June 02, 2016, 11:34:02 AM »

Thanks for the info. I need to check the clamp for tightness? Do I need to remove the hose and inspect a check valve or tube for wetness?

Idontwantapickle · « **Reply #23 on:** June 03, 2016, 11:36:26 AM »

Quote from: Lesman on June 02, 2016, 11:34:02 AM

Thanks for the info. I need to check the clamp for tightness? Do I need to remove the hose and inspect a check valve or tube for wetness?

Yes, disconnect the hoses and make sure they are not cracked. If the hoses are good clean it up and put it back together. If they are cracked or broken then of course you would replace them. If it has Oetiker clamps, the ones that crimp on, replace them with screw type clamps.
Hunter

Lesman · « **Reply #24 on:** June 06, 2016, 12:08:16 PM »

I have not removed the breather hose. Wouldn't the amount of oil from the breather hose being expelledwould be in the droplet range vs "Spot"marking range. I rode 280 miles yesterday between our daily monsoons. I saw 3-4 drops at 150 miles and 2-3 drops when I got home.
Just really annoying. I will be checking the breather hose pretty quick. If it isn't the problem Then I'm thinking of pulling it all apart in December replacing rear main seal and checking the clutch.

Lesman · « **Reply #25 on:** July 06, 2016, 02:30:05 PM »

While my rear leak seemed manageable. I now have a another in the front off the front engine cover. I replaced the gasket and seal. It's not really aparent where it's coming from. It's either the new front seal, someplace higher on the cover or even the cam sensor?. I had no leak for 900+/- miles. Can the breather get plugged up and cause the rear/front seals to leak? I just did a quick look at the breather hose. It appeared fine. If there some pvc valve on the breather hose? I would love to say that I'm the world's greatest Guzzi mechanic. This would be an untruth. A seal going bad after 900 miles seems odd. I would expect it to go bad immediately. I really dislike oil leaks.

bmc5733946 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 06, 2016, 03:50:04 PM »

I would begin to wonder if the crankcase is getting pressurized from a blocked or intermittently blocked breather system. I forget the Quota breather layout but it shouldn't be too hard to figure it out. Remove the hose most directly connected to the crankcase without obstruction, replace with a piece of hose and direct it into a catch can, watch for more oil. I have found one bike with a porous casting at the back of the crankcase inside the clutch housing. Leaked oil after run hard, didn't when run easy or running standing still.

Brian

Lesman · « **Reply #27 on:** July 16, 2016, 03:27:22 PM »

I pulled off breather hoses to check them. There is a ball valve check valve in the breather that fits inside the tube of the breather. I checked it . It seemed OK. Is it OK to remove this valve. I have a theory it might be "sticking". I don't really see how it could. My leak starts after a while and not immediately .

pehayes · « **Reply #28 on:** July 17, 2016, 12:57:10 AM »

Quote from: Lesman on July 06, 2016, 02:30:05 PM

While my rear leak seemed manageable. I now have a another in the front off the front engine cover. I replaced the gasket and seal. It's not really aparent where it's coming from. It's either the new front seal, someplace higher on the cover or even the cam sensor?.

You replaced the seal where the crankshaft passes through the timing cover. Did you also replace the o-ring which resides inside the shaft spacer for the alternator? Easy place to get a leak and the presence of that o-ring is not well known. I chased a leak until I discovered the o-ring. Solved. See the picture. O-ring #8 resides INSIDE spacer #9. O-ring part number 90-70-61-78.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

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Author Topic: Quota Oil Leak (Read 6850 times)