Question about Guzzi's and bad knees

[flip]

     So, a week or so back, I had the opportunity to ride a little over 200 miles(100 miles down and then return) to take some stuff to my daughter in college. I took my Breva 1100. I think that is by far the longest ride I've done on it in the last 3 years or so. The route had me on country roads for about 15 miles, maybe 5 miles in town and 80 or so miles on an Interstate Hwy.

     In the last couple of years, I've had 3 surgeries on my left knee and one on my right. There were a couple more surgeries in that time frame but they don't really matter in this discussion so...

     My knees were hurting when I got there. They were much worse when I got back home. My Breva has a Corbin seat on it that I think sits me a little higher than stock and a little further back. The seat helps. Not installed but I have a set of MFW adjustable pegs and a set of Goldwing pegs along with adjustable toe pieces for the shift and brake pedals. I'm not sure if they will help enough to matter.

    By the way, I'm about 6'1" with a long torso and arms.

     So, finally to the question. I know that on average, we are a bunch of old guys on here. There has to be several people on here with bad knees. What Guzzi's work best for you, Stelvio and Quota? If you left your beloved Guzzi and moved on to something else, what did you pick? Or, am I the only wimp on here and y'all just ignore the pain?

   

[nick949]

Here's my two cents worth Flip.  I'm 6'2" 34 inseam, so leggyish. Recently became a pensioner.

I found my unmodified Breva 1100 comfortable for long days. Knees bent, but not too much and a mild, pleasing forward lean.

The Quota has plenty of leg room, but surprisingly, not a massive amount more than the Breva. Riding position is very upright, but still with feet below the buttocks where they should be.

The 72 Eldorado is fine for long days. My knees rarely complain - my backside sometimes does, but usually only after 8 hours or so, and any discomfort is offset by the massive cool factor 

The Nuovo Falcone is probably the most comfortable of the lot.  No need for a forward lean - you're never going to be going that fast - bolt upright riding position and gallons of leg room.  It's a good job it's comfortable as it takes an age to get anywhere 

The 750s is the worst of the lot. Bends my knees like a pretzel. Huge stretch to the bars. Seat like a plank. But it's worth it  .

Final analysis?  I don't think switching bikes is likely to make much difference. Exercise and practice are the key.

Nick

[flip]

Thanks Nick. I work out at the Y and I have an elliptical and weights I use at home.

My Shiver has more legroom than my Breva. The knee and hip angles are more open on it. I really, really like my Shiver but it doesn't have that undefinable something that makes Guzzi's so special.

[nick949]

Thanks Nick. I work out at the Y and I have an elliptical and weights I use at home.

My Shiver has more legroom than my Breva. The knee and hip angles are more open on it. I really, really like my Shiver but it doesn't have that undefinable something that makes Guzzi's so special.

Flip,I'm lucky to have good knees (so far) and you are obviously doing the best you can with the cards you've been dealt. I don't know if I'd be brave enough to ride after multiple surgeries, so  to you.

I do understand about the Guzzi thing though. I ride quite a few friends bikes and no matter how fast / comfortable / smooth etc. etc. I'm usually bored within a few minutes.  Good luck.

Nick

[rodekyll]

Don't suck it up and ride till you drop --  find the proper ergos for your condition.  There's just no glory in tipping over at a stop because the knees took a nap.  Experiment with padding/blocks etc for a better seat height and look for different/additional pegs.  handlebar geomery is also important.  There might not be anything on the shelf for you -- you might have to diy.

While you research, take your miles in lower doses -- 70% of tolerable distance -- and get out of the saddle for 5 minutes.  You'll get a lot more fun miles out of your day.

$0.02

[webmost]

I play indoor four wall handball thrice a week. I'm 68. Several years back while scrambling for the ball in the usual manner I ripped the tendon that goes from quad over kneecap to shin off the top half of my left kneecap. Sounded like bubble wrap and felt like fire. I dunno your exact injury, so you'll have to figure out what applies.

At the time, I was riding a BMW R1200CLC big bagger named Annie. It was pure hell getting Annie home. I prolly have not ridden her but a couple hundred miles total since. The 90 degree knee angle and heavy bulk make Annie unrideable for me. Still have her; got to get rid of her. At the same time, I also owned a BMW K75C name of Ocelot. Bulk was not an issue there; but with Ocelot you cock your feet back under you. Absolutely could not take that. Sold. Wonderful lifetime engines on those brick engines. Wish I could have kept her. My third bike Biffy Bullfrog is a KLR650. With her, my legs are extended downwards, with my knees at maybe 120 degrees. What a world of difference. It can be a bit of a chore kicking my way over her high seat; but between stretched legs and less bulk, Biffy is a wonderful long distance bike. Does not affect my knee at all. Since that little bit of stretch downwards made such a diff, I then bought an Indian Scout, Sopowa (Blackfoot for WindMaker) to try out forward controls. I installed floorboards. I've taken three or four 800 mile trips and a 3500 mile trip on Sopowa. Knees absolutely problem free. So all my bum knee asks is don't bend me and don't make me carry half a ton of weight. Here recently, I bought a Jackal, Goldenbitch. I have buckhorn handlebars arriving tomorrow for GB. I feel confident that with the more pulled back bars I will be able to slide to the back of her big solo seat, and then I'll be good to go. She may, however, prove a bit too bulky, as the Jackal's weight rides so much higher than the Scout.

My advice, based on my own injured knee, is twofold:

1)Lighter bike
2)Relaxed knees

Good Luck

[Pisano]

Maybe try Motorcycle Ergos and compare other bikes you've ridden and see what will offer for more knee angle:
  http://cycle-ergo.com/

for what its worth...When I has riding my Cal II over long distances I remember stretching my legs as knees would cramp up.  Wished I had a little bit more forward foot controls while still being able to stand up. I'm 6ft 1".  It seems that the v9 will do it for me but have not ridden it yet.

[flip]

Thanks for all of the input guys.

My injuries were a patella tendon that snapped then some meniscus tears that got cut out. In between those surgeries I had to have a gall bladder removed and then I got 2 umbilical hernias while in physical therapy rehabbing the knees.

In 2013, I rode back from the Canadian National rally to NC in under 22 hours. It was 1019 miles. My butt was sore but I survived. So, I know my Breva used to fit acceptably.

I've been researching bikes in cycle ergo. That is a great site! On there, it looks like a Yamaha FJ-09 should be a good fit for me. I demoed one earlier this year along with some other Yamaha's but it didn't speak to me. I've been on nothing but 90 degree v-twins for the last several years so maybe I'm just used to more engine character.

Perhaps I should put on the Goldwing pegs and find somebody to make me an ugly seat. I've seen pictures of a Breva 1100 seat that was built up several inches. It was not pretty, in my opinion but I bet it was comfortable.

[kirb]

The Stelvio is a great touring rig and has great overall position. You can stand, move around, slide on the rear seat, etc. The seat is fantastic as well. I wouldn't know if you can tolerate the ride position of the Stelvio, so you should try one.

I would avoid anything that would bend up your knees. Griso, Norge, your Breva come to mind.

Some may find it hard to accept, but feet forward (ala Cali, Indian, Harley) might solve your problem. The california could be the solution for your knee pain. They do make that version with floorboard or pegs, so you might find a happy in-between. There are a lot of guys with knee problems logging miles on Harleys. Not saying the bike is for you, but the riding position might be.

[Dilliw]

The Stelvio is a great touring rig and has great overall position. You can stand, move around, slide on the rear seat, etc. The seat is fantastic as well. I wouldn't know if you can tolerate the ride position of the Stelvio, so you should try one.

I would avoid anything that would bend up your knees. Griso, Norge, your Breva come to mind.

Some may find it hard to accept, but feet forward (ala Cali, Indian, Harley) might solve your problem. The california could be the solution for your knee pain. They do make that version with floorboard or pegs, so you might find a happy in-between. There are a lot of guys with knee problems logging miles on Harleys. Not saying the bike is for you, but the riding position might be.

I have a repaired meniscus with a bad patella on my left knee and neither my EV (floorboards) or my Griso bother it.  The EV bothers my lower back and shoulder while the Griso is hard on the arse, but as different as the positions are my knees don't seem to be the issue.

The key to knee pain for me has been spin classes.  My doctor recommended spin and at first I hated it but once I found the right instructors I've sort of taken to it.  Kim and I also bought bikes and now we toot around the neighborhood and on the local trails (light trails). 

[Sheepdog]

I had to specify a higher seat to make my CalVin's ergos work. Much better when you get your knees over 90 degrees...

[timonbik]

I too have had orthoscopic knee surgery and this spring started experiencing left knee pain on my Honda NT700V.  I rode all last winter in Florida on my 750 Breva with no issues and had no issues last summer on the NT.  I looked at adjustable pegs/floorboards and even considered getting an old guys cruiser, but instead started riding my bicycle again and taking a joint saver sup and now no more knee pain.   Exercise and some glucosamine supplement might do the trick.
Cheers,  Tim

[Murray]

Maybe get some extra foam in the seat in the quest for lower seat height to make bikes more appealing mainly to women (expanding demographic market etc etc) a lot of bikes have ended up with cramped riding positions, looking at the cruiser market where low seat height = good and no other variation is considered. Not i am considerably younger with less crap knees typically I ride around on an 1100 sport which I think for me would be more comfortable that a current V7 on a long trip and its all because of the leg room.

[Aaron D.]

My knees are fine, but most Guzzis do bend them quite a bit, the Jackal included. Our Scouts have a lot more room without being silly.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Exercise and some glucosamine supplement

They use MSM on horses knees. I take Glucosamine with MSM, and have for years. It makes a difference for me. For you? Who knows? It doesn't cost much to try.

[Mark Harpell]

I've tried everything...had to sell a couple bikes because it hurt so bad....the only thing that has helped, and I'm not being a smart a**, knee replacement.....all old issues gone.....no pain...wish I had done it years ago.....

[mjptexas]

Ride a Cali 1400 Custom or touring.  Different from your current ride but very comfortable.  I know a lot of people don't like floorboards but you can move your legs around which contributes to the comfort factor.

[Farmer Dan]

Just my 2 cents here, sounds to me like you need forward controls so you can stretch your legs out and keep from bending the knee so much.  That will in turn put more of the weight on your back side so you will need a better seat also.  I am 6'7" tall with a 38" in seam riding a '72 Eldorado, my knees and back side start to hurt after an hour on the road.  The highway pegs help because I can change position once in a while but not much.  This winter I will design and build forward controls for it since I know that on my past bikes it has solved my problems.

[ChuckH]

My progression in bikes over the last several years has been '09 650 Strom, '12 Stelvio and '07 R1200R.  Seating positions very similar on all of them.  A couple of years ago I began having pain in my knees, mostly the left side, after a few hours in the saddle.  A set of lowered pegs helped a bit but didn't completely eliminate the problem so they came off.

Then my wife and I started doing Yoga three days a week, we do the weights and treadmills the other three days.  The stretching that is part of the Yoga exercise program has really helped.  Now when I'm on the road, I get off every 150/175 miles for a brief walk-around (the R1200R makes that easy since it has a small tank and limited fuel range) and my knees have stopped complaining. 

[Dean Rose]

How about an EV with the floorboards and a Guzzi King/Queen seat?


Dean

[redrider90]

Don't suck it up and ride till you drop --  find the proper ergos for your condition.  There's just no glory in tipping over at a stop because the knees took a nap.  Experiment with padding/blocks etc for a better seat height and look for different/additional pegs.  handlebar geomery is also important.  There might not be anything on the shelf for you -- you might have to diy.

While you research, take your miles in lower doses -- 70% of tolerable distance -- and get out of the saddle for 5 minutes.  You'll get a lot more fun miles out of your day.

$0.02

Agreed Ergonomics is everything when it comes to distance or time on a bike. Even when I was playing basketball 3 days a week on outdoor asphalt courts I found it harder to do 400-500 mile days on my Mille than playing ball for hours on end.

[ed.bremner]

I think you guys have pretty much covered it all  and I ain't that old, but have had knee problems on and off since my early 20s.

In general my knees are better now than they used to be, largely I think due to first riding less miles and secondly riding a Guzzi rather than previous skinny in-line bikes.

The big thing for me is simply keeping my knees warm and I realise for many of you this just ain't a problem. 

One of my reasons for going over to a guzzi (29 years ago) was that they keep your knees out of the wind and out of the cold.  I found a direct correlation between having cold knees from riding with my knees in the wind and having bad knees.   I bought the guzzi, knees were warmer and have had considerably less problems since.   OK, they still give me gyp after a long ride or a day of skiing, but on the whole they are much better. 

So, if you are riding much in the cold, make sure you keep em warm!

later

eib

[webmost]

The big thing for me is simply keeping my knees warm ...

Need warm knees? I'd think most any American air cooled V twin would be the ticket.

[Penderic]

V1600 Recliner!