Broke a clutch cable - now this...

[Mark Dasher]

93 Cal III with about 30K miles.  I broke a clutch cable last week while out on a local ride.  It was working fine prior, so no big deal I thinks...

Today I just installed a new one and now the clutch won't disengage.  What the hell? Did I break a clutch spring and jammed it up limping the bike home?  This doesn't bode well... 

At least it'll be an excuse to ride my trusty T tomorrow.  It's more comfy anyway! :)

--Mark

[oldbike54]

 Is the clutch lever moving through its normal arc and the clutch isn't disengaging , or is the lever stuck solid ?

 Dusty

[Mark Dasher]

The clutch lever at the trans seems to be moving fine.  There was very little slack on the cable to take up.  Something is amiss.

It feels like I'm gonna break the cable again if I pull on it any harder...

[pehayes]

The clutch lever at the trans seems to be moving fine. 

You didn't exactly answer the prior question.  I suspect he was asking about the hand lever and you were answering about the transmission lever.  So, please clarify.  Your transmission lever moves freely if you pry it with some tool but the hand lever will not move.  Correct?  Or explain some other symptom.

Have you run the engine since installing the new cable?  If you allow the cable to rest against the exhaust header, the heat of the metal melts the outer sheath and exposes the underlying steel coil.  That coil absorbs the exhaust heat and transfers it to the nylon liner of the cable which subsequently melts the nylon liner.  When everything cools down, the nylon solidifies and permanently binds the sliding inner cable core.  BTDT.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Mark Dasher]

You didn't exactly answer the prior question.  I suspect he was asking about the hand lever and you were answering about the transmission lever.  So, please clarify.  Your transmission lever moves freely if you pry it with some tool but the hand lever will not move.  Correct?  Or explain some other symptom.

Have you run the engine since installing the new cable?  If you allow the cable to rest against the exhaust header, the heat of the metal melts the outer sheath and exposes the underlying steel coil.  That coil absorbs the exhaust heat and transfers it to the nylon liner of the cable which subsequently melts the nylon liner.  When everything cools down, the nylon solidifies and permanently binds the sliding inner cable core.  BTDT.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Sorry about not being clear.  The hand lever and cable move freely.  The lever at the rear of the trans moves freely too.  It looks like the clutch or pushrod mechanism is bound up internally.


--Mark

[Mark Dasher]

Sorry about not being clear.  The hand lever and cable move freely.  The lever at the rear of the trans moves freely too.  It looks like the clutch or pushrod mechanism is bound up internally.


--Mark

I just realized I might have confused the question.  When pulled, the handlever is very hard and won't disengage the clutch.

The levers and cable are free when not hooked up...


--Mark

[Wayne Orwig]

Can you get a photo of the rear of the transmission where it pushes on the 'plunger', with the clutch released and with it pulled?
That might clear this up a bit.

[oldbike54]

 Mark , not trying to be snarky , but have seen this happen . Please do a simple test , put the bike in gear , don't pull in the clutch lever , and see if the bike will roll . Before I go into why , let us know if this is the case , humor us please .

 Dusty

[Mark Dasher]

Mark , not trying to be snarky , but have seen this happen . Please do a simple test , put the bike in gear , don't pull in the clutch lever , and see if the bike will roll . Before I go into why , let us know if this is the case , humor us please .

 Dusty

I will do Dusty.   When I get back into the shop, I'll report back!


--Mark 

[oldbike54]

I will do Dusty.   When I get back into the shop, I'll report back!


--Mark

 Thanks , the more info we have the better , and I always like to eliminate the simple stuff first .

 Dusty

[Tom H]

Ooo..Oooo I think I might know where this is going  

Tom

[oldbike54]

Ooo..Oooo I think I might know where this is going  

Tom

 Yep 

  Dusty

[oldbike54]

 Mark , yo , are you there Mark ? 

 Dusty

[Zoom Zoom]

Did the spring fall out on the lever in the back? If so, are you certain you put it back in the proper place?

John Henry

[guzzisteve]

OR did the inner race from cover bearing on clutch shaft come off and into the well for throw out bearing plunger. Which has happened to me, no locktite on shaft on a new bike.

[Sasquatch Jim]

 My clutch cable was getting stiff so rather than wait for it to break out on the road, I replaced it last month.
 I replaced both throttle cables at the same time.  No ned to wait for breakage.
 Seven years of usage and corrosive Hawaiian weather can take their toll.  This bike has lived most of its' life out in the weather. Did my valve rockers while I had everything open to view.  A little preventive work means peace of mind.

[Tom H]

Mark, don't keep us in suspense!! 
Tom

[Mark Dasher]

Sorry to keep y'all waiting...

I stepped back into shop today and it seems that the clutch is hung up part way.  If I put it in 4th gear, I am able to turn the rear wheel, with some resistance.  The lower clutch lever still has the little return spring behind the thrust washer.  Everything looks fine down there.

I suspect a broken clutch center/spline issue :(    Any more thoughts?


--Mark

[oldbike54]

 Mark , and once again I am not being snarky . You mentioned there was very little slack to take up on the cable . Is there any chance the clutch is already partly disengaged due to a cable that is too short ?

 Dusty

[Tom H]

Or the cable end adjusters adjusted too tight?? There should be a bit of freeplay at the hand lever before you feel the hand clutch lever start to move the clutch.

Tom

[Mark Dasher]

It's not the cable length (ordered from MG Cycle) and I checked it against the old one.  Also the adjustment has correct freeplay etc.

I'm not boasting here, but this isn't my first rodeo!      But there's always something new to learn!


--Mark

[oldbike54]

 Well dangit , seems maybe we were hoping it was something simple . OK so the rear wheel will rotate a bit while in gear , more than driveline lash would allow for ?

 Dusty

[Mark Dasher]

Well dangit , seems maybe we were hoping it was something simple . OK so the rear wheel will rotate a bit while in gear , more than driveline lash would allow for ?

 Dusty

Nope Dusty, it ain't driveline lash. I can literally turn the rear wheel and feel the clutch drag.   Nothing is ever simple - must be something to do with Murphy's Law.  Or maybe Luigi's Law? 

--Mark

[Zoom Zoom]

  The lower clutch lever still has the little return spring behind the thrust washer. 

--Mark

It fits into its own separate pocket. Not on top of the thrust washer/ bearing. (Not sure if you mean behind as in beside, or behind as in on top of.)

My thought is this: If everything was working prior to breaking the cable, something may not be assembled correctly. It is unlikely, (but not impossible), that something else broke while you were replacing the cable.

John Henry

[tris]

Left field maybe, but when the cable broke did the clutch actuator arm on the box spring back suddenly and far enough such the clutch push rod isn't located properly

[Wayne Orwig]

I would assume that the throwout bearing has somewhat disassembled itself. Take off the cable, unpin the lever, pull off the plunger, and inspect inside there.

[Mark Dasher]

I would assume that the throwout bearing has somewhat disassembled itself. Take off the cable, unpin the lever, pull off the plunger, and inspect inside there.

Definitely a possibilty.  That's the next thing I'll do and report back.  Thanks for the input everybody!

-- Mark

[Zoom Zoom]

Bump.

Any resolution yet?

John Henry