Norge questions

[severely]

Have an Eldo with 250k+ miles, looking to move forward and have been looking at the Norge models. Any problems/issues with these models/engines? Thanks in advance.

[pyoungbl]

I had an '07.  The bike was fantastic on the road...except for the heat on my left knee.  That might have been due to my 32" inseam.  The plastic was a PITA to remove for even the simple stuff.  Both conditions were corrected in the later versions...not sure exactly what year model.  Last summer I did a 7500 mile trip with a buddy on his '15 Norge and I was on my '12 Stelvio.  He got great fuel mileage, never had an issue with comfort, and could hit 120mph with ease.  My Stelvio did great but at the top end I had way too much wind hitting me and the bike.  The Norge has you sitting down 'in' the bike where the Stelvio has you 'on top of' the bike.  Either is a winner.  Coming from an older Guzzi I think you will be amazed at the torque of the newer lumps.  They are sweet!

Peter Y.

[lost]

If you look at pre 2013 8v be sure it has been rollerized. Mid 2012 and up are already corrected. Most of the Norge's have the oil pressure switch go early but aside from that they are great bikes. They love the open road.

[ITSec]

Let's see what I can remember...

Early models (2007)

A relatively small number had a problem with the oil pump. This was for about a 3 or 4 month period of production of the 1200 2v engine in the winter of 2006-7.

2007 models did not have a pull-to-remove dipstick from the factory, and did not have an access port in the fairing to give access to allow oil level to be checked. The oil access plug had the traditional cap-and-dipstick of older Guzzis. 2008 and later models had a port (blanked with a rubber plug) and a normal dipstick. A retrofit kit to add this to 2007s was available, and at least one after-market alternative was offered for the earlier bikes.

2007 models had a weak rear spring - OK for one-up, but not great 2 up or with loaded luggage. This was beefed up in 2008, but many riders of the 2v model (2007-2010) have chosen to upgrade the suspension. My own 2008 has a HyperPro shock and spring at the rear, and HyperPro progressive rate springs in the stock forks.

Factory supplied tires were awful Metzelers - and I like this brand for most products. If the previous owner never wised up, the handling can be dramatically improved with Pirelli Angel GTs (my old favorite) or Michelin Pilot Road 4 GTs (my current favorite). In both brands a heavy-duty version is available in these sizes, which is highly recommended for 2-up, loaded, or long-distance riding.

These models had lower and slightly narrower risers for the grips. Many riders purchased the HeliBar risers. The later 8v models had risers that were virtually identical to the Helibars, eliminating the need for them for most riders.

2v engines used a 4-plug setup. The inner plugs can only be reached by removing the air-box (inside the V), and using an extremely thin-wall socket. Since these are such a pain to reach, plan to have them on hand and replace them whenever you have a good reason to remove the air-box. It'll save you complaining later. You may have trouble finding a thin-wall socket for this plug; they are available on Amazon (sometimes), or you can buy a high-quality one and have a machine shop grind it down for you. The 8v engine doesn't have this issue, as it has only a single plug per cylinder.

If you need to replace the front brake rotors, the factory product is stupidly priced. By getting the ABS ring for the later models, you can use any correctly sized after-market rotors. I used this technique to install EBC rotors on my 2008. Kudos to the gang at Moto International in Seattle who published the info on how to do this.

Later models (2011-2016)

From 2010 to 2012 (mid production year), these bikes have the same problem as all other 1200 8v engines of that period - sooner or later, the original valve train needs to have the roller tappet head installed. Many bikes have had this done, many more have not - since the factory required a dealer to officially say the original valve train had been damaged. This can be checked for visually, and if it has not been done then allow for this in the purchase price. Much info in other threads.

Suspension has seen continued improvement, but many owners still prefer after-market upgrades.

Factory tires changed to the Pirelli Angels (ST then GT). These are not the heavy-duty version (see note above).

While the 8v engine's spark plug wires are not as fragile as the ones on the Stelvio, care should still be taken when handling the spark plug wires and jackets.

All models

Factory ECM maps generally range from poor to adequate but not spectacular. Loading of new maps is highly recommended. While I highly respect Pete Roper, if the previous owner put in a Power Commander 5 with AutoTune I would not immediately rip it out; either method can be made to work effectively. Both require some dialing-in to get what you most want. There's no reason to buy the PCV setup if it's not there, as Pete and Beetle have got the right answers using the stock ECM without it, I just wouldn't waste the investment if the previous owner made it. I bought this stuff for my 2008 before Guzzidiag or other solutions became available. It was the right decision then - it would not be the right decision today.

Oil pressure sensors are notoriously poor (not for function, but for ongoing reliability). In my 120,000 miles, I am just about to install my 4th unit. Some give spurious readings (especially after getting wet), some leak, some fail intermittently and some outright. It's not hard to learn the signs, and to know that what might indicate a serious lubrication failure is actually just a bad sensor or sensor connector. Again, many threads on this issue and how to solve it (though the supplied sensors remain a weak point, but not fatal).

Startus interruptus (poor power supply and switch/relay design to the starter) was again common to all models, as it was for all 1100-1200 models of this period (and all small block, when it comes to that). Easily fixed with either a purchased solution (MPH supplied) or if you're handy it's easy to do for yourself.

Some riders have used Buell Ulysses or Honda GoldWing pegs to get a bit more legroom, These generally work well, but may result in some contact with (and resulting vibration from) the sidestand. A variety of solutions have been used, including a bit of metal grinding, or use of the Euro spec sidestand.

Both side and center stands need lube (where it should move) and blue loctite (where it shouldn't).

Swingarm splines and lower shock mounts are notoriously unlubricated. Simple but necessary.

The seal at the rear axle will last about 70-80,000 miles. It will likely fail before the bearing does, but replace them both at that point.

The alternator drive belt will last about 50,000 miles, or 5 years (3 in the desert).

Removal of the evaporative emissions canister is a common thing. I removed mine - not for engine performance, but because it made it really easy to install an Audiovox CCS-100 (vacuum operated) cruise control. If removed, plug hoses as appropriate.

A variety of windshield options are available. Check the threads for discussion of favorites. I use the stock shield with a Laminar Lip, and a Cal-Sci mid-height.

The factory electrical output is enough for moderate demands (basic heated clothing, some additional lighting, factory heated grips). I have opted to use LEDs and low-draw add-ons to leave as much headroom as possible.

Replacing the stock bulbs in the headlights is NOT (repeat, NOT!!!) recommended. The housing will bubble and distort with any bulb that produces more heat than the spec bulb (i.e., PIAA 60 or 100w units, H1 or H3 100w fog-light bulbs). Also, the projector-lens headlights are designed for a point-source (i.e., filament bulb). They will be disappointing with any of the after-market LED or other replacements. If you want more light, add auxiliary sets instead. On the other hand, the stock headlights are right up there with the GoldWing and V-Strom as 'best factory headlights'.

That should give you a good start. I have owned a Norge (not my 1st MG) since 2011; 2008 model, though new - old stock. If it were lost tomorrow, the day after I'd have another lined up.

[tris]

The only thing I'd and to ITSecs is that the instruments can collect water
So if anything on the dash doesn't work or things driven from the dash (4way flashers for example) it could be prudent to walk away

[severely]

Wow, thanks for the feedback. Much to consider.

[atavar]

Love my '08 Norge.  Only problem is the famous brake fade and bleed issue.  Oh, and be prepared to buy lots of rear tires, there is no problem *if* you can control your wrist but this bike will burn through rear tires if you tell it to.

[Huzo]

Love my '08 Norge.  Only problem is the famous brake fade and bleed issue.  Oh, and be prepared to buy lots of rear tires, there is no problem *if* you can control your wrist but this bike will burn through rear tires if you tell it to.

What would you consider average ? Pilot 4's go to about 14,000 - 16,000 k on my '07.

[auzziguzzi]

Just wanted to add, regarding the oil pump failure of 2V Norges manufactured around November 2016, that a reputable US dealer claims that only the RED Norges experienced oil pump failure. 

Two x November 2016 Norges sold here in Australia (one mine), and only differing by one in the VIN, both had oil pump failure.
And guess what - both are red.

That was a great summary of a great bike, ITSec.  It pretty much covered all foibles of the 2V models.

John.

[Huzo]

Just wanted to add, regarding the oil pump failure of 2V Norges manufactured around November 2016, that a reputable US dealer claims that only the RED Norges experienced oil pump failure. 

Two x November 2016 Norges sold here in Australia (one mine), and only differing by one in the VIN, both had oil pump failure.
And guess what - both are red.

That was a great summary of a great bike, ITSec.  It pretty much covered all foibles of the 2V models.

John.

Just in the interest of balanced reporting, mine's a red '07 with 106,000 k and zero dramas.

[Huzo]

That was a great summary of a great bike, ITSec.  It pretty much covered all foibles of the 2V models.

John.

Damn right, better than any lame "road test" in a magazine. Well worth a read for any potential buyer.

[ITSec]

What would you consider average ? Pilot 4's go to about 14,000 - 16,000 k on my '07.

I just replaced a set of PR4 GT (heavy duty version) on my Norge. They went just short of 14,000 miles. I am not hard on tires, but I'm not easy on them either. Also, summer riding in the Mojave Desert tends to be a bit hard on them too.

[ITSec]

Just wanted to add, regarding the oil pump failure of 2V Norges manufactured around November 2016, that a reputable US dealer claims that only the RED Norges experienced oil pump failure. 

Two x November 2016 Norges sold here in Australia (one mine), and only differing by one in the VIN, both had oil pump failure.
And guess what - both are red.

That was a great summary of a great bike, ITSec.  It pretty much covered all foibles of the 2V models.

John.

It's quite possible that the majority - even all - of the faulty oil pumps were used in a a given production run, and that run could easily have also been a run of a particular color.

And thanks for the compliment. Even if my own bike never experienced all these issues, I've paid close attention on this and other boards since I use my Norge for IronButt rides and need to know as much as possible about it.