Cost to rebuild engine on 1974 California....

[Caffeineo]

For some reason I really like the early MG standards. I just saw a 1974 California in very good condition.


The ad says...

"Not running, stuck intake valve left cylinder. Bike has sat for several years, tank will need to be re-lined. Bike is complete, no missing parts. Also have spare parts and Batwing fairing with windshield. Sold as is, where is."

No mention of mileage. If I got it as a "project" you most likely would see it listed for sale here in the same condition in a few years. 

If this was rebuilt by a skilled mechanic would it be a reliable ride?
Most of my street riding is a 10 mile loop to the post office. Maybe an occasional day trip. I have no idea what it would be like to ride or what regular maintenance would be required. I also have developed a habit of getting a bike only to find out it is not what I had built it up to be in my mind and selling it after a few months. So not sure if this is just another case of bike lust or maybe something I would stick with.

Last but not least......where would be a good place to ship it for repairs to roadworthy condition? As I am in Idaho my first thought is MI in Seattle but there may be better choices.

[oldbike54]

 Not sure what the seller means by "stuck" inlet valve , probably a bent pushrod or something
broken . You will need cylinders at a minimum . Charlie Mullendore (Antietam) would be a good choice for engine work .

 Dusty

[nick949]

Loops are the ultimate usable classic.  Mine gets ridden hard and long (see http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=87184.0 for a very minor example).

Earlier this year two Aussies bought and Eldorado sight-unseen in Nova Scotia, then rode it across the continent including Canada and the south-west.

10 miles to the Post Office is hardly enough to get the oil warm.  These bikes were built for big miles and the open road.

But..........you'll either like it or not - just don't spoil it.

Nick

[pehayes]

If you are at all serious about this bike, start by joining the LoopFrame discussion over at yahoo.com and by cruising Greg Bender's voluminous website at http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe.html

It looks cosmetically wonderful.  We need a mileage and asking price to determine if this is any kind of deal.

Many loopframe Guzzis have done well beyond 100K mileage.  This is a long legged tourer.  Perhaps not well suited to a daily 10 mile post office circuit.

Stuck valve MAY have been kissed by the piston resulting in bent valve, damage to piston crown, bent connecting rod, bent push rod.  Has to come apart to confirm.  Could be as simple as replacing one valve on that head.

At that time, Guzzi was experimenting with chrome lined cylinder bores.  Many (but not all) eventually had the chrome break free as small flakes.  Chrome is an exceedingly hard substance.  Imagine what it can do flowing around inside the motor which has no oil filter.  Any serious rebuild would instantly replace the pistons and cylinders with a Gilardoni set coated with the more modern Nikasil.

There are several restoration vendors who specialize in loopframes.  These are well known on this forum:

http://www.antietamclassiccycle.com/

http://www.harpermoto.com/

http://www.motoguzziclassics.com/

They don't have a website, but Easton Brothers in Evanston, Wyoming is not too far and they ride Guzzi.  400 miles from you.

You are in Idaho.  Perhaps you can find an owner  nearby who would meet and demo their bike for you so you can have more insight into the model's properties.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Caffeineo]

Not sure what the seller means by "stuck" inlet valve , probably a bent pushrod or something
broken . You will need cylinders at a minimum . Charlie Mullendore (Antietam) would be a good choice for engine work .

 Dusty

Did these have the chrome cylinders?
If it is still for sale I am thinking I'll have my brother get it as he is close by.

Loops are the ultimate usable classic.  Mine gets ridden hard and long (see http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=87184.0 for a very minor example).

Earlier this year two Aussies bought and Eldorado sight-unseen in Nova Scotia, then rode it across the continent including Canada and the south-west.

10 miles to the Post Office is hardly enough to get the oil warm.  These bikes were built for big miles and the open road.

But..........you'll either like it or not - just don't spoil it.

Nick

Thanks, good to hear about the "rideability". I would keep it 100% stock or as close to it as possible. That is what really appeals to me. I have had a 1999Bassa, 2007 Griso, 2009 Stelvio and the current 2008 sport. The Bassa is by far my favorite and wish I still had it. I was looking for a similar California and saw this old one and the gears start turning....... Now I want it.

[Caffeineo]

If you are at all serious about this bike, start by joining the LoopFrame discussion over at yahoo.com and by cruising Greg Bender's voluminous website at http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe.html

It looks cosmetically wonderful.  We need a mileage and asking price to determine if this is any kind of deal.

Many loopframe Guzzis have done well beyond 100K mileage.  This is a long legged tourer.  Perhaps not well suited to a daily 10 mile post office circuit.

Stuck valve MAY have been kissed by the piston resulting in bent valve, damage to piston crown, bent connecting rod, bent push rod.  Has to come apart to confirm.  Could be as simple as replacing one valve on that head.

At that time, Guzzi was experimenting with chrome lined cylinder bores.  Many (but not all) eventually had the chrome break free as small flakes.  Chrome is an exceedingly hard substance.  Imagine what it can do flowing around inside the motor which has no oil filter.  Any serious rebuild would instantly replace the pistons and cylinders with a Gilardoni set coated with the more modern Nikasil.

There are several restoration vendors who specialize in loopframes.  These are well known on this forum:

http://www.antietamclassiccycle.com/

http://www.harpermoto.com/

http://www.motoguzziclassics.com/

They don't have a website, but Easton Brothers in Evanston, Wyoming is not too far and they ride Guzzi.  400 miles from you.

You are in Idaho.  Perhaps you can find an owner  nearby who would meet and demo their bike for you so you can have more insight into the model's properties.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Great info, thanks. The street riding season is over here. Especially for a fair weather street rider like me. I have no idea if there is any similar bikes anywhere close to me.
I have been on Greg Benders site a bit for info on the Bassa so I'll have a look at it and the Yahoo group.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Did these have the chrome cylinders?
If it is still for sale I am thinking I'll have my brother get it as he is close by.

Thanks, good to hear about the "rideability". I would keep it 100% stock or as close to it as possible. That is what really appeals to me. I have had a 1999Bassa, 2007 Griso, 2009 Stelvio and the current 2008 sport. The Bassa is by far my favorite and wish I still had it. I was looking for a similar California and saw this old one and the gears start turning....... Now I want it.

Yes, they did. I'd think a professional would charge a minimum of 2K to "get it running" with new cylinders.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Great info, thanks. The street riding season is over here. Especially for a fair weather street rider like me. I have no idea if there is any similar bikes anywhere close to me.
I have been on Greg Benders site a bit for info on the Bassa so I'll have a look at it and the Yahoo group.

The "Loop Group": https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Loopframe_Guzzi/info

Patrick and I are moderators.

[Caffeineo]

Yes, they did. I'd think a professional would charge a minimum of 2K to "get it running" with new cylinders.

That would work. Just waiting for the owner to contact me and hoping it is not gone........

[Caffeineo]

The "Loop Group": https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Loopframe_Guzzi/info

Patrick and I are moderators.

Thanks, I just applied to the group.

[siabeid]

     A couple years ago I put new Gilardonis on my t3. (A t3 engine is very similar to the Eldo's). The pistons and cylinders and gaskets were around $800. You can get them from MI, MG Cycle or Scrambler Cycle. I also sent the heads to MI and they replaced the valves and guides. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was $400 or so. I also went through the carbs. Kits for the Dell Ortos were not too much. My first Guzzi was a 1972 Eldo. Currently I have a 1974 Eldo. It is a very nice ride. Will cruise 70 or 80 all day long, is very stable on gravel and handles pretty well, too. When I ride it, it is a different experience from my Tontis or more modern Guzzis. I prefer the behavior of my t3, especially brakes and handling. There is something about the loops though. They are kind of like a bike from the 50s.  As soon as I sold mine, I regretted it and began keeping my eyes open for another. They also really hold their value well, if you don't like it or tire of it. I couldn't tell from the pic if it had Amal or Dell Orto carbs. A lot of 74s had Amals. Mine does. Though I prefer Dell Ortos, the Amals are a lot easier on the wrist and they seem to work well enough. They are very simple.
     I have quite a lot of parts for loop frames. If you need something, I may have it. After all, I owe you for finding the v7 sport.

Si Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA

[Cam3512]

Most of my street riding is a 10 mile loop to the post office. Maybe an occasional day trip.

Really???  Why not just pedal a bike then.

[JoeW]

First off, buying a non running machine with known internal problems is a pig in a poke. Just because the seller says it has a stuck valve does not mean it's true. Recently a client purchased a 74 LAPD off of Craigslist. The ad stated that the bike had a top end noise. It also listed work that had been done to the motor, including reground crank and new bearings. I got the bike running and it did have a noise, on teardown, I found that the crank and bearings were destroyed. The rod journal was oval. It was undersized but, it looked like sand blast media had been left in the case, the cylinders were 88mm from a G5 I assume and the case had been opened up to accept them. I had to replace the crankshaft and bearings, new 88mm Gilardoni cylinders, balancing.... it came to about 4500.00. The thing that really got me was the pan was clean, no debris at all. So, I can only assume the seller had realized his screw-up and sold it to an unsuspecting guy. The bike runs great now but, the owner has invested a lot of money into it, wiring, clutch, starter... the list goes on. Remember a rebuilt motor is NOT a rebuilt bike, there are plenty of other things that will probably need repair.
You seem to be unsure about this decision. Owning a vintage bike, even one that is well sorted or even fully restored is a commitment. That's a 42 year old machine, it will require maintenance and repairs. Loop frame Guzzis are awesome bikes and run well. They can be very dependable but, all the issues need to be addressed first, and there will be issues.

[Caffeineo]

     A couple years ago I put new Gilardonis on my t3. (A t3 engine is very similar to the Eldo's). The pistons and cylinders and gaskets were around $800. You can get them from MI, MG Cycle or Scrambler Cycle. I also sent the heads to MI and they replaced the valves and guides. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was $400 or so. I also went through the carbs. Kits for the Dell Ortos were not too much. My first Guzzi was a 1972 Eldo. Currently I have a 1974 Eldo. It is a very nice ride. Will cruise 70 or 80 all day long, is very stable on gravel and handles pretty well, too. When I ride it, it is a different experience from my Tontis or more modern Guzzis. I prefer the behavior of my t3, especially brakes and handling. There is something about the loops though. They are kind of like a bike from the 50s.  As soon as I sold mine, I regretted it and began keeping my eyes open for another. They also really hold their value well, if you don't like it or tire of it. I couldn't tell from the pic if it had Amal or Dell Orto carbs. A lot of 74s had Amals. Mine does. Though I prefer Dell Ortos, the Amals are a lot easier on the wrist and they seem to work well enough. They are very simple.
     I have quite a lot of parts for loop frames. If you need something, I may have it. After all, I owe you for finding the v7 sport.

Si Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA

Thanks for the info and offer of parts. I am thinking it is sold as I have not gotten a reply to my email and at $300 it is quite a deal.......I think.

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/1974-Moto-Guzzi-CALIFORNIA-120198036

[nick949]

Thanks for the info and offer of parts. I am thinking it is sold as I have not gotten a reply to my email and at $300 it is quite a deal.......I think.

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/1974-Moto-Guzzi-CALIFORNIA-120198036

$300?  Smells like phishing to me.

Nick

[Caffeineo]

Really???  Why not just pedal a bike then.

 

Too much like exercise. The roads here are not bicycle friendly and neither are the drivers.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

First off, buying a non running machine with known internal problems is a pig in a poke. Just because the seller says it has a stuck valve does not mean it's true. Recently a client purchased a 74 LAPD off of Craigslist. The ad stated that the bike had a top end noise. It also listed work that had been done to the motor, including reground crank and new bearings. I got the bike running and it did have a noise, on teardown, I found that the crank and bearings were destroyed. The rod journal was oval. It was undersized but, it looked like sand blast media had been left in the case, the cylinders were 88mm from a G5 I assume and the case had been opened up to accept them. I had to replace the crankshaft and bearings, new 88mm Gilardoni cylinders, balancing.... it came to about 4500.00. The thing that really got me was the pan was clean, no debris at all. So, I can only assume the seller had realized his screw-up and sold it to an unsuspecting guy. The bike runs great now but, the owner has invested a lot of money into it, wiring, clutch, starter... the list goes on. Remember a rebuilt motor is NOT a rebuilt bike, there are plenty of other things that will probably need repair.
You seem to be unsure about this decision. Owning a vintage bike, even one that is well sorted or even fully restored is a commitment. That's a 42 year old machine, it will require maintenance and repairs. Loop frame Guzzis are awesome bikes and run well. They can be very dependable but, all the issues need to be addressed first, and there will be issues.

I am just fantasizing about the riding experience and not the maintenance aspect of it. As I have gotten older I do not enjoy wrenching like I used to. Now I only want to do oil changes and wash/wax to keep the bike looking good. I should read up on the Yahoo group to get a better feel of the reality of having a loop frame and try to keep my powder dry for a bit. But this 74 Cali looks great (in the pictures) and at $300 my fantasy started to grow.......

[Caffeineo]

$300?  Smells like phishing to me.

Nick

I did ask for pictures of the right side of the bike as it is not shown and when could my brother come over to look at it. Just did a Google image search for the pictures used and no other copies were found.......... But yea, sounds/looks a bit too good to be true. 

[Cam3512]

ABSOLUTELY a scam.  That front end is worth $1K.

[leafman60]

Good grief, that has to be some sort of scam.  They probably want you to wire $5000 to a Nigerian account and they will refund you back $4700.

I guess it's some sort of flattery that a Moto Guzzi would be used as scam bait.  Maybe our recognition is on the upswing.

I don't know why scammers would be so extreme in their approach to throw out red flags to their prey. 

Local to me, I remember a few years ago that a band of gypsies came into our area and soon displayed all sorts of artifacts along they highway for sale at crazy prices.  Within a couple of days, a like-new 21' Aquasport boat with a 200 HP Yamaha was on display with a price of $500!

Several of our northern snowbirds were in line to buy it until the cops from the theft investigation unit drove up.  The boat disappeared as did the gypsies before dawn the next morning.

.

[twhitaker]

not the maintenance aspect of it. As I have gotten older I do not enjoy wrenching like I used to. Now I only want to do oil changes and wash/wax to keep the bike looking good.

I had two Ambassadors when I got a Convert. They sat for years before I got rid of them. Glad to be rid of them (at the time) cause of all the maintenance they required (relative to the Vert). Got rid of the Vert when I got the California for the same reason.