Are Harley and Guzzi stuck in the same boat?

[Joliet Jim]

Cool Factor.  Guzzi had it...

ooh i like the red :)

[LowRyter]

I suspect that a previous comment was right on, that sales of motorcycles shadows the economy and most young people cannot afford a bike.  Stuck with enormous college loans and low paying entry level jobs, chasing a girls and outrageous rents eats up the "spare" money.  As greater percentages of wealth concentrates in fewer households,  fewer toys will be purchased and as noted earlier, expensive to buy and run telephones and tablets are more in sync with their perceived needs.  The crappy weather doesn't help either.

perhaps that's why you see so many of them on '70s Japanese bikes all BRAT'd up. 

Not my style but I appreciate the imagination and wrench turning. 

[Penderic]

I don't care if the pond dried up, we're gonna invest in a bigger boat!

[stevet]

Another issue that my operation manager mind leaps to....what's the capacity of the (nearly) century old plant on the shores of Lake Como? I've never been, but I've done some google earth stalking, and it appears a pretty landlocked facility, and it's no where near a port, so the cost and logistics of plant modification/transition must be staggering, and the impact of a significant spike in demand would be a challenge, and the cost of shipping bikes from the mountains of Italy to ...Miami? New York? has got be considerable, although that pipeline is certainly well established.

It just seems to me that Piaggio probably wrestles with maintaining a balance of keeping an old plant profitable and efficient, and that may play into the VERY metered output of product, and development is invested in relative to it. It's a challenge to be sure.

These are great points I hadn't considered before.

Steve.

[Kev m]

These are great points I hadn't considered before.

Steve.

Nah, I read that but didn't bother answering. The counter is Triumph, Harley, Honda, etc. They've all successfully built other plants and moved production of some models without alienating most of their customers.

If demand for Guzzi rose enough there's no reason they couldn't move big block or small block production to another Piaggio facility. As long as something was still being made in Mandello I doubt the backlash would be that great. Especially if the other Piaggio facility remained in Italy.

[bad Chad]

Indeed they have done it before.  During the 80s small block frames were built at the Maserati plant, I forgot which city, and the motors were put together at a Innocenti plant, all under De Tomaso.   I'm not sure if final assembly took place in Mandelo or not.

[kidsmoke]

That would certainly make a lot of sense, but would still involve a lot of cost. There was an agreement with Aprilia that all Guzzi production would remain in Mandello. Seems market demands could certainly cause them to revisit it.

[johnr]

Not a Guzzi.


 

The fact that someone went to the trouble and expense of building that thing simply amazes me.

[johnr]

Honda does, or at least used to know how to advertise to the non-riding public to bring more into the riding.  Back in the 60's when they entered the US motorcycle market, they had their "You meet the nicest people on a  Honda" campaign.    Then they introduced the CB450 in 1965 and the CB750 in 1969.   It was all but over for the British manufacturers.

I think that is a bit simplistic. Hondas campaign was aimed at the general public (what a good idea)  and led to a motorcycling boom that affected all manufacturers and carried them with it.
For example the BSA corporation got the export award for Britain in 1968  and was selling everything it could make as fast as they could make it right up until they got into trouble for other reasons (mainly to do with borrowing huge sums for R&D and retooling) in the 70s.
(oops! Forgive me. I see you more or less say that in your very next paragraph)

Hondas advertising actually brought so many people into motorcycling that they were largely responsible for the golden years for motorcycle sales in the 70's, as many other manufacturers saw their sales go up markedly too.

Back to Guzzi.   I was just at our local dealer, Europa Macchina yesterday.    I asked how the V9's were selling.    He said that they're not; not for them, not for anyone.     

That's because they are both ugly and impractical.

[Kev m]

I think that is a bit simplistic. Hondas campaign was aimed at the general public (what a good idea)  and led to a motorcycling boom that affected all manufacturers and carried them with it.
For example the BSA corporation got the export award for Britain in 1968  and was selling everything it could make as fast as they could make it right up until they got into trouble for other reasons (mainly to do with borrowing huge sums for R&D and retooling) in the 70s.
(oops! Forgive me. I see you more or less say that in your very next paragraph)

That's because they are both ugly and impractical.

Two thoughts:

1. Facts not in evidence that Honda's add campaign was responsible for the sales boom.

&

2. What about the US motorcycle market suggests that practicality plays a significant role?

[johnr]

Two thoughts:

1. Facts not in evidence that Honda's add campaign was responsible for the sales boom.

Perhaps not on it's own. There are other factors at work in a bike boom which appears to occur on a relatively regular basis, but their timing was fortuitous to say the least so I'm sure they contributed greatly to it.

2. What about the US motorcycle market suggests that practicality plays a significant role?

You have me there!
But;
1. The US market may indeed be a very large one but it is by no means Moto Guzzis only one.
2. I suspect that for many potential US buyers it is important or at least plays a role.

I noted when I first looked at my Guzzi in the shop such details as a decent size tank, places to easily attach luggage and a host of other details of, potentially anyway, practical nature. (and the fact that it was too big and heavy) 
Surely many buyers in the US also look at how a bike will answer their needs.

I'm reminded of an interview I read years ago with some big wig from BSA. I can't quote him directly but the gist of what he was saying was that the bigger bikes were for (a limited number of) motorcycle enthusiasts, but that the bread and butter of a motorcycle company was the smaller cheaper products for the everyday man. As a result the Bantam, which was designed to get a man to work cheaper and easier than a bus, was in fact one of their most successful products ever.

I see no equivalent everyday man products available from either Guzzi itself or HD, yet it is such products that fill the bank account of most manufacturers from what I understand.



 

[oldbike54]

 Well , Honda has built something like 100,000,000 Cubs and Super Cubs , so yeah .

 Dusty

[Arizona Wayne]

That would certainly make a lot of sense, but would still involve a lot of cost. There was an agreement with Aprilia that all Guzzi production would remain in Mandello. Seems market demands could certainly cause them to revisit it.

Part of this discussion has to do with dealing with the employee union @ the Mandello factory.  Back in the `90s a new honcho came in and wanted to move Moto Guzzi to a different location/plant and the union shot it down.  Since then the old plant has been reconditioned some and the factory is staying there no matter what.

[Rough Edge racing]

 I just read the Ducati sold about 55,000 bikes last year, 10,000 of them in the USA. . Moto Guzzi  is not a Ducati , it's engine layout is different than most all other bikes and it gives the Guzzi it's unique character.. And like it or not, it also give Guzzi a limited sales appeal...