Guzzi says this is a brand new system. What is it?

[Daniel Kalal]

The description--below--is from the Guzzi web site (the excerpt was posted by Guzzi on FB).  I think there must be some translation difficulties involved.  A "regressive spring"?  Has Guzzi really put some sort of mechanical spring in the steering system?  If I read it right, the springs will assist the turning effort, which sounds like an invitation to shimmy if the dampers are worn (and, are there dampers?)


Also contributing to achieving this goal is the brand new (and patented) manoeuvring assistance system that reduces the tendency (connected to the size of the front wheel) of steering to “close” in low speed and high steering angle manoeuvres, counterbalancing the weight of the steering, thanks to a system of regressive springs and particular kinematics.

[Dilliw]

A review of the Flying Fortress https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/moto-guzzi/moto-guzzi-mgx-21-flying-fortress


"On the launch route from Milan to Guzzi’s Mandello base and back, the Fortress chassis’ performance was mixed. That big, carbon-covered front wheel is seriously heavy (Guzzi wouldn’t say how much heavier than the other Cali models’ smaller wheels it is), and tends to make the bars flop into slow turns. So the firm has developed a special steering damper that it calls a “manoeuvring assistance system”, which gives increased resistance as the bars approach full lock."

[pete roper]

Heaven help us. Which of their current munty lineup is this fitted to? Oh, just saw the post above. So what they are saying is that it's so poorly thought out they had to come up with a kludge to stop people blaming them if they fall off?

Pete

[Daniel Kalal]

which gives increased resistance as the bars approach full lock....

thanks for that.  So, it really is a "progressive" spring, and not the mysterious "regressive" spring that Guzzi writes about.

I guess I have to say "wow."  That's a serious disadvantage to a 21" wheel.  I can't imagine what the advantage might be that would make Guzzi pursue this approach, other than the subjective appearance of the thing.

The best solution to the problems of a 21" wheel might just be to use a smaller wheel...

[PJPR01]

Motorcycle power steering...what could go wrong here...   Crikey, this seems like a very odd idea...but maybe it's what all futuristic motorcycles will happen.

[Triple Jim]

Chopper Flop moves from the '70s into modern times.

[Daniel Kalal]

Chopper Flop moves from the '70s into modern times.

Yes; but back then, most motorcyclists laughed at those things...

[rocker59]

Motorcycle power steering...

No, just another steering damper...

[Daniel Kalal]

No, just another steering damper...

A damper cannot introduce a force into the system if there is no motion.  This is a spring; it will take continued force against that spring to maintain a constant turn angle.  A damper will help reduce shimmy.  A spring could introduce it.  I'd guess this system includes a damper of some kind (sort of a MacPherson strut).

[Triple Jim]

Yes, my understanding is that it's a spring that tends to center the steering, to counteract the chopper flop that you would otherwise feel at low speed.

[sib]

Yes, my understanding is that it's a spring that tends to center the steering, to counteract the chopper flop that you would otherwise feel at low speed.

Chopper flop?  Isn't that what happens when you laugh too hard and your dentures fall out?

[Triple Jim]

Chopper flop?  Isn't that what happens when you laugh too hard and your dentures fall out?

I could be... I guess it's a homophone.   

(I wonder what the next turn will be.)

[Sasquatch Jim]

 Any bike big enough to be called a Flying Fortress  is too big to be a motorcycle.
 Not on my list.

[Tobit]

They found a use for the wine cellar full of NOS LeMans IV throttle return springs.

 

[Dilliw]

There's a picture of it in this article:

http://ridermagazine.com/2016/08/09/2017-moto-guzzi-mgx-21-flying-fortress-first-ride-review/

[Chuck in Indiana]

They found a use for the wine cellar full of NOS LeMans IV throttle return springs.

 

 

[LowRyter]

something to do with a 21 in front wheel/tire ?

[Triple Jim]

something to do with a 21 in front wheel/tire ?

That's what the writeups say.

[Penderic]

A steering damper?

What's next, training wheels?



"I'm on a Moto Guzzi! Wheeee!"

[LowRyter]

[Luap McKeever]

Yeah, like Rocker said.  It's basically a dampener that stiffens up low speed steering.  I'm thinking about yanking mine off to see if it helps with the heavy-ish feeling low speed maneuvering. 

I don't think any other baggers that have 21" up front have these things, so I have to wonder if that dampener is part or most of the reason the bike feels heavier at lower speeds...

[pete roper]

Given that they say it's a 'Spring' rather than a 'Damper' and it still flops about like a cock in a sock I can't see that taking it off would do anything apart from making the 'Cock Flopping' more evident.

Ditch the trail bike front wheel and fit a real one and lower the front mudguard and it probably won't handle any worse than a Cali 1400 like I had.

And before anyone starts calling me a hater? I don't *Hate* the MGX for what it is. I dislike the fact that form is more important than function, this issue illustrates that perfectly. I break wind at the 'Designer' who came up with such a stupid idea!

Pete

[Triple Jim]

I break wind at the 'Designer' who came up with such a stupid idea!

He doesn't get credit for the idea, he had to look only as far as the current bagger trend.

[flip]

Ditch the trail bike front wheel and fit a real one and lower the front mudguard and it probably won't handle any worse than a Cali 1400 like I had.

And before anyone starts calling me a hater? I don't *Hate* the MGX for what it is. I dislike the fact that form is more important than function, this issue illustrates that perfectly. I break wind at the 'Designer' who came up with such a stupid idea!

Pete

Well said Pete!