V7 II First service. Yuck oil & where does this o-ring go?

[Darmie]

Good evening. Finally past the 600 miles. I plan on doing the head re torque and valve check tomorrow after work, letting the bike sit over night. I did drive to work today and thought it would be a good time to complete part of the work. I changed all three oils, engine, transmission and final drive.
I was able to use a jack stand on the right side and a floor jack on the left side near the side stand.

Worked out great to level the bike. Tomorrow I'll do the same thing but probably place the other jack stand on the left side.
After removing the front oil drain bolt, oil started to flow. It didn't look all that bad, but. After removing the rear oil drain bolt, nothing but this sludge came out!



This did not look normal however, I don't fully understand the two drain bolts anyway.

So, as I'm cleaning up my oil drip pan, I notice this gasket was left behind.





I'm thinking that it may be the o ring for the filter housing as shown below.

I just looked under the bike and it appears to be moist there but maybe I didn't clean it well when I was finished. So, I cleaned under the pan and ensure it's well dry. I cut out a milk type jug and placed it under the bike. I was in some what of a panic but i feel that if this is where the o ring goes, I can drain the oil in the jug, remove the filter and place the oil back in the engine.
Any other thoughts where it goes?

Tomorrow after work is head retorque and valve check.

[Kentktk]

That is the sealing ring for the filter cover, good thing you didn`t go ride.

[Darmie]

Yes, Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes, I feel much better.

I need to slow down and learn the bike. It's not like no other that I have owned.

That is the sealing ring for the filter cover, good thing you didn`t go ride.

[jas67]

Put a very small dab or two of gasket sealer in the grove of the cap to hold that O-ring in place.
They have a way of coming out of the grove.   If you tighten it down with it out of the grove, it it will come loose and fall out, allow oil mist to completely coat your left leg and the left side of the bike.

Don't ask me how I know.   

If you do happen to lose the cap/dip stick, one from a 1970's CB175 fits, and is very close to the correct length.

[stevet]

Yuck.  This oil gunk, and all the metal flakes that go along with it, are why for many vehicles now, I've performed oil and filter changes at 100 miles instead of the manual rec. 500 miles, 1000 miles, or more.  Get that crap out rather than let it continue to circulate on all those lubricated surfaces.

Steve.

[Cam3512]

Looks like "mayo" in the oil.  Typically found when accumulated moisture (water) hasn't had a chance to burn off.  Has the bike been sitting, or only taking short rides without letting the oil get hot enough?

[Darmie]

Thanks all for the response.
Thanks Jas for the idea of gasket sealer. I'll do that.

Stevet, I would have never thought to see new oil look that bad though.

The bike was a demo model but it only had 121 miles on it when I purchased it as new. I have owned the last 500 + miles and knowing the character of the bike, most always warm it up prior to pulling out and don't recall anytime of starting and shutting down. I'm interested to know if this is an area of the oil sump that does not get that much movement? That alone was well telling of the 600 mile service. No chunks were found on any of the drain plugs, just a very small touch of fine metals appearing as graphite.  The transmission screen looked new. Actually, the transmission oil looked the best of any of the three fluids. That may not had need changing.

Looks like "mayo" in the oil.  Typically found when accumulated moisture (water) hasn't had a chance to burn off.  Has the bike been sitting, or only taking short rides without letting the oil get hot enough?

[kingoffleece]

Were we clear with him here?
There are rings at both places.  When you check your oil there is, as mentioned, a sealing ring that goes under the inspection cap.  it's easy to get it lost or mis-aligned.  That leads to the left foot oil bath, as I also found out!

When you drop the oil filter there is a sealing ring there also IIRC.

[Darmie]

Thank you. I will check that first. That's an easy look.
You all are more than kind. It makes owning a Guzzi so pleasurable and helps build confidence in ownership. Such a bike with this much character I feel needs a lot of love too.

Were we clear with him here?
There are rings at both places.  When you check your oil there is, as mentioned, a sealing ring that goes under the inspection cap.  it's easy to get it lost or mis-aligned.  That leads to the left foot oil bath, as I also found out!

When you drop the oil filter there is a sealing ring there also IIRC.

[v65tt]

see that nasty mayo oil coming out of lots of v7/v7II

good example of why the breather needs bypassing.


interestingly i'm running 10w50  instead of 10w60 and there is a lot less majo coming out of mine

[kenvil1]

I would have expected more responses regarding the milky sludge in your oil, it seems rather alarming. Perhaps the moisture comes from an external source such as washing the bike or from riding in wet conditions along with a poor seal somewhere. It's curious that the sludge came from the rear drain only; it must be the lowest point since oil floats on water. Did you check your air filter? Some owners have reported traces of oil in there. I'm not an owner, but I have been following the V7 with interest for a while now.

Note: I wrote this before reading v65tt's response.

[v65tt]

I would have expected more responses regarding the milky sludge in your oil, it seems rather alarming. Perhaps the moisture comes from an external source such as washing the bike or from riding in wet conditions along with a poor seal somewhere. It's curious that the sludge came from the rear drain only; it must be the lowest point since oil floats on water. Did you check your air filter? Some owners have reported traces of oil in there. I'm not an owner, but I have been following the V7 with interest for a while now.

Note: I wrote this before reading v65tt's response.

later v7II dont have the oil in air filter issue as they have reverted to the spine breather.


The condensation is coming from inside the engine, especially on short runs, problem is that condensation ends up back in the sump.

my recommendation has always to vent the rockerbox outlets to the rear of the bike and dump the rest of the plumbing

[Chuck in Indiana]

  The transmission screen looked new.

Is this something in the new small blocks that I don't know of? Sounds like a good idea.

[Cam3512]

see that nasty mayo oil coming out of lots of v7/v7II

good example of why the breather needs bypassing.


interestingly i'm running 10w50  instead of 10w60 and there is a lot less majo coming out of mine

I've NEVER seen it in 14K miles on my '14 V7 Special.  Hope I didn't just jinx myself.

The dipstick and filter cover O-rings are very different sizes.  It should be obvious which of the two it belongs.

[Darmie]

See below.

Is this something in the new small blocks that I don't know of? Sounds like a good idea.

[Darmie]

Ok, here's where I'm at.
Where I thought the o ring may go now does not make sense since there is a o ring on the cover. I thought maybe it goes around the filter as seen in my picture but it does not fit and it does not make sense from the drawing from the manual. So, the only other place it may go is on the transmission bolt. I held it up to the bolt and it appears to be about the same size. So, I'll put the filter back in and drain my transmission fluid and take a look.

[Darmie]

Found out where it goes


upload photo and get url

[pete roper]

Its winter, it's an ex demo so it will of done lots of short trips and heat cycles without getting good and hot. Of course there will be water in the engine oil.

Changing oil early in a new motor is actually counter productive.

[oldlegs]

Even though I drain my V7 11 every 3,000 miles I have always had water contaminated oil from the rear lower sump plug, even a last little dribble of water. The bike is not used for short rides and mostly in the warmer weather. Steve.

[Chuck in Indiana]

See below.

Kool. I've never been inside a new small block transmission, although I understand they use an oil pump. Good idea. Thanks.

[pete roper]

They went to a positive feed system so they could spin the pinions on bushes rather than needle rollers. Cheaper. Not that its a bad idea per-se, just don't try and tow a six speed V7 behind another vehicle with its rear wheel on the road. The pump is driven off the input shaft. Dead engine races wouldn't be smart either!

Pete

[jas67]

Changing oil early in a new motor is actually counter productive.

Please educate me as to why.

[pete roper]

Because it slows down the bedding in process and can in fact hinder ring seal.

[jas67]

Because it slows down the bedding in process and can in fact hinder ring seal.

Good to know.   Thanks!

[kingoffleece]

I had no idea.  Can you further on why fresh oil hinders that process?
I'd like to expand my knowledge base on this topic.
Thank you.

[Darmie]

I also wanted to share where the valve lash was before I adjusted them. The right intake was near .051mm and the exhaust was at .102mm
Left was not much better. Closer with intake at .050mm and the exhaust at .076. I put the intake at .152mm and exhaust at .203mm

[Muzz]

WAY to loose.  What does your book say?  My '14 Special specs are .006/.008 mm.  Yours should be same or close.

I think you will find that the >006 and .008 are relating to thou of an inch. Ties in with .15mm and .2 mm On my 2TB engine, that is what is specified.

[Cam3512]

I think you will find that the >006 and .008 are relating to thou of an inch. Ties in with .15mm and .2 mm On my 2TB engine, that is what is specified.

Right you are.  And I KNOW I shouldn't post after a bottle of vino...