Quota Final Drive

[ES1]

Hello all. I must first apologize for my first post, I should have been active on this forum before hand as it is a lovely resource, forgive me!

Anyway, I recently did a fly and ride for a Quota and had a really good time of it except for a few things. On my ride back I noticed a substantial whine in the 60-80 mph range once the bike was warmed up, and the final drive/wheel hub was getting rather warm so on my first stop I removed the rear wheel for inspection. What caught my attention first was the toasted outer wheel bearing(closest to the brake) so I sourced a bearing that day and replaced it(a rather painless procedure except for some buggering by someone before me). This alleviated some of the noise but it still persisted to whine once warmed up. Never having owned a Big Block before I had to assume a little whine might be normal and being 900 miles from home I wasn't going to be doing anything about it except for changing the gear oil.

It made the trip just fine, and the whine didn't get any worse or better but it still worried me, so I removed the final drive for inspection (I usually dismantle new bikes for a look over anyway to fix PO buggering etc.). What I found was a pinion gear that looks like a hell hound with acid breath had a chew on it. There are multiple  chips on the outer edge and excessive pitting on the faces.









The pinion bearings also have excessive play and the box would leak a touch of gear oil on the wheel (I think this is due to overfilling)

So I need some guidance on my next course of action. Should I pursue rebuilding this Final Drive(expensive, seems like parts alone would be over $500) or should I source a good used Drive?

I personally like the idea of a used unit as this one has obviously seen better days but I'm not familiar enough with the different units to know which is compatible with the Quota. Searching isn't lending any solid information either so now I must beg you all for your wisdom and patience. What Fits? Is it as simple as "the Quota uses the same drive as all the other 1990's bikes"?

oh, one last thing, it appears to have a different rear wheel on it(chromed rim), could it require a different drive because of this? I'll try to get some pictures of it.

Thank you all for your time,
Nate

[ES1]

Here are the pictures of the wheel, I never did clean it after the trip.

[BMCMOTO]

Nate, Some of the bikes from about 1999 to 2001 seem to suffer from this. My 2001 Jackal had the problem as well as others I serviced during that time. I replaced mine with a used earlier unit, I think from 1997, no problems after that. Some people including me suspect that there might be a problem of using excess moly in these gearboxes. Using moly in the amounts called for by Guzzi is probably ok.  My friend the 84 year old gear cutter says that moly additives can be tough on small needle roller bearings like used on the outer side of the crown wheel shaft on Guzzis.  The theory is that the moly can accumulate on the outer diameter of the needle causing the needle to grow to large for the containment of the outer bearing thereby causing the needle to shatter then traveling throughout the rear drive unit causing damage to both the crown wheel and the pinion.  The former leads me to the thought that more is definitely not a good thing in the case of moly in connection with rolling element bearings.  I also took note of Dow not mentioning its use for rolling element bearings, they do mention its use for plain bearings.  I have used Moly-Coat G paste as assembly lube for plain bearing engines for decades with no problems and would recommend it to anyone, I have also used STP as assembly lube along with many other things such as Lubriplate White assembly lube.  YMMV!

Brian

[ES1]

Thank you Brian, I appreciate the information.

I have some Redline Heavy Shockproof gear oil and Moly Powder I was planning on using in the amounts specified by Guzzi once I get this issue resolved. I know oil can be a controversial topic, do you have any opinions on using the powder?

Also, is there any difference in the spacing on the drive units in relation to the wheel or will most any of them mount up? It looks like the swing arm on the Quota was unique to it, hence my concern.

[TOMB]

 It might be quicker and cheaper in the long run to Source a used unit I believe the quota has a 7 - 33 gear ratio that's the same gear ratio that's in a teeth g5 Cal 11 .I believe so a direct replacement would probably only require the bushing for the axle in the rear end to be driven out and put in the one that came with your bike originally
TOMB

[TOMB]

You might also try a rear drive out of an SP believe those are the same as T3 Etc  good luck
TOMB

[ES1]

Thank you TOMB,

The Quota came with the 8/33 gear set based on the parts catalog and I believe mine to be just that as 5th gear is not very useful below about 75 mph.

As for the axle bushing, that is excellent information, exactly the details I'm searching for! Would I able to drive it out with the unit intact or would I have to disassemble it for removal/install?

Nate

[ES1]

I will say, If I can get my hands on a 7/33 unit I think I would be happier. The high gearing doesn't fit the majority of my riding and a little extra umph at lower speeds would be nice fully loaded/two-up.

Nate

[BMCMOTO]

Nate, Go for the 7/33 much better for many things in my opinion, as a plus 7/33 vintage gearboxes never seem to have this problem. As mentioned you may need to change the axle spacer from your old one to whatever you acquire. Powered moly isn't a bad thing per-se but I am not sure how much you would use, certainly not the same amount, cc/ounce wise, as the premixed stuff sold by most purveyors of things Guzzi.

Brian

 

[fotoguzzi]

I will say, If I can get my hands on a 7/33 unit I think I would be happier. 

yes you will.. T3 & G5 maybe Cal 2  have 7x33 drive and can be fit to your Q.

[ES1]

Thank you guys, this is all very helpful.

I've made a WTB ad in the Swap Meet section, I guess I'll see what is available. If anyone has any suggestions beyond that for sourcing a used drive I'm all ears.

Nate

[Dean Rose]

You will be pleased with the 7/33, got it in my '02 EV great for the hills here in SW Virginia.


Dean

[TOMB]

The bushing can be removed on the bike but is easier on a work bench. Plus  no disassembly of the drive box.but if you source a used rear drive you know you want to take it apart

As. A side note I use  synthetic gear oil Mobil 1 see my list of bikes in my signature and the mileage of each. Never used  Moly In any of them .no issues
TOMB

[Chuck in Indiana]

I had 2 rear drives for Darth Quota to be used depending whether I was in the SoCal canyons or on a trip. The 7/33 livens the bike up a bit. 
As far as I know, modern synthetic lubes don't need moly. I've never used it for literally 100s of thousands of miles with synthetics. I still use it on the old small blocks with dino oil that tend to leak if you use synthetic.
As to your original question.. watch ebay. Good used rear drives show up occasionally, and it's *much* cheaper and easier than buying the new parts and fitting everything up.

[lti_57]

I use Redline Heavy duty in my Norge and in my Quota
My understanding is  like Chucks no Molly needed
MY Quota has a whine but i seem to think it has timing gears not a chain
but I have not opened it up to verify this.
but it sounds like straight cut gears.

[ES1]

no disassembly of the drive box.but if you source a used rear drive you know you want to take it apart

TOMB

You're absolutely right, I'll be cracking any Drive I source open for a good look at the gears, bearings and seals.

I had 2 rear drives for Darth Quota to be used depending whether I was in the SoCal canyons or on a trip. The 7/33 livens the bike up a bit. 

That's an interesting approach, I'll have to keep that in mind considering the ease of removal/installation of the final drive and my intended use for this bike (allarounder, commuter, 2up tourer).

As to your original question.. watch ebay. Good used rear drives show up occasionally, and it's *much* cheaper and easier than buying the new parts and fitting everything up.

I've had an eye on ebay and missed an excellent opportunity the other day because I was unsure another unit was necessary. All that's left now are a few drives missing the pinion carrier and gear and a drive from a 850t with 8/37 gears that appears to be a slightly different design(maybe for a drum brake?).  I'm sure something will materialize soon, I'd love to be riding/sorting the bike out.

[ES1]

So this may be a silly question but I have to ask it. Will a deep sump drive from an earlier bike with drum brakes bolt up with my disc brake wheel?

This is what I'm talking about.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-Eldorado-V7-Sport-850T-Deep-Sump-Rear-Drive-8X37-Final-Drive-/192123813643?hash=item2cbb78bf0b:g:8Q0AAOSw4CFYv2~M&vxp=mtr

The seller was kind enough to send me some detailed shots of the pinion gear and it looks to be very nice.

I know the drive looks slightly different but if the dimensions are all the same and it functions properly I really could care less. Honestly, the extended sump looks cool and some added capacity never hurts.

I look forward to all of the educational input!

Nate

[TOMB]

Yes the rear end will bolt to your swing arm however you will not be able to get the axle through the Eldorado Type rear end housing The length of the swing arm on the right side of the bike on the El Dorado is shorter from the pivot point to the flange where the rear end bolts up the later ones T3 and Beyond the swing arm on the right side from the pivot point to the axle is proximate 10 millimeters longer so the differential is different from the axle hole to the front of the differential housing if you wanted to use that rear end you would have to change the complete swingarm to the Eldorado type which I would suggest you do not do and you would also have to weld on a piece to the left side to hold the rear brake caliber I would suggest you hold out for an 850 t3g 5sp rear end it will bolt directly to your bike and give you the 7th - 33 ratio which everybody else is talking about you may need to change the bushing to keep the wheel spacing
TOMB

[Lesman]

What is your rear wheel? It looks like a steel rim in the picture.

[Tom]

Just use the pink milkshake.  No need to add moly.  If you use pure dino gearlube add the moly.

[ES1]

What is your rear wheel? It looks like a steel rim in the picture.

I'm not sure, I'm open to speculation if you have an idea , that's why I included pictures of it. Previous owner thought that it might be from a Jackel but said it was on there at time of purchase.

Beyond that wheel its pretty obvious this bike has been through many hands or in the hands of a few creative people. It has many upgrades that hint at a knowledgeable owner followed by some haphazard repairs/modifications that would make one think otherwise. Lots of "character".

[Lesman]

Only reason I asked. The axle spacer tube inside  the rear of the Quota(axle goes through it) is 2-3 mm shorter than a California.
So if the axle spacer tube is not changed a spacer/shim must be used between the wheel bearing and this tube. I utilized the spacer instead of buying a new tube. A buddy made it(Spacer) for me. A regular washer can be used.Otherwise there isn't any space between the wheel and rear drive hub...No Va.
If a crappy washer(wrong size) is utilized it has the potential to tear up the wheel bearing. I notice a slight noise difference with the California rear wheel( I mean slight). So is your rear caliper pointed downward? The California  rear disk, hangar and caliper are different. Using a California Caliper hangar your caliper is at the bottom of the wheel vs a Quota Caliper is at the 10-11 pm position. The Quota axle is also too short vs a California axle. I milled a 1/2 to 3/4"( I don't remember the exact measurement) in my California caliper hangar to get my axle more flush and more threads showing. A buddy made me a new thinner Stainless washer for axle . As stated above the axle spacer tube or bushing pops out pretty easily.
BTY don't forget to lube the axle spline ends  including the connector/ujoint side.