Bent Clutch Arm Actuator

[jackpayback]

I have a 2015 V7 Stone.  I was recently told that the clutch actuator arm is bent and that it will need to be replaced.  I didn't have a chance to discuss it with the mechanic, just the service writer.  He said that they anticipate the job would cost something like $1,000 and that it would require removing the rear from the bike to get to the transmission.  I'm also pretty sure he said that they would open up the clutch.

My bike has had problems in the past with the clutch.  It's taken a while to get dialed in to where it needs to be.  Just recently they replaced my clutch cable for getting completely stretched out of whack (this is when they told me about the actuator arm) and it was perfect.  Then I went on a long road trip over the weekend and the cable just stretched again enough where I couldn't change gears.  The dealership thinks that it is due to that bent actuator.

Has anyone else had this happen to them?  I don't really have the experience or know-how to do something like replace a bent clutch actuator and I've read on other forums that if your clutch gets wonky at the transmission end, you can end up doing some serious damage to your engine.  I'm just worried that they won't do it correctly as they haven't been the best shop in the past.  Plus, they charge an arm and a leg.  They charged me over $600 for the break-in service.

[oldlegs]

Hi and welcome , clutch cables don't stretch that often, but they do go out of adjustment, how many mile has the bike done, there has been cases of thrust washers on the crankshaft giving the impression of clutch problems which a Guzzi dealer should know of. Steve.

[jackpayback]

I have about 14,800 miles on the bike.  This is the third clutch cable I'm on.  There's probably only about 600 miles on this clutch cable and about 8,000 on the previous cable.  I commute on the bike about 15 miles every day through heavy stop and go traffic in New York.

They didn't mention anything about thrust washers but said the arm itself is bent.  $1,000 seems like a crazy amount to replace one part, even if it means removing the shaft and rear half of the bike.

[oldlegs]

At 14,000 miles the thrust washer problem would have shown its self by now so I think we can forget that now. If your dealer is talking about the arm at the back of the gear box that the cable attaches too I think it is easy to remove provided the pins are not seized.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

There's only one "arm" that actuates the clutch - the one on the (outside) back of the transmission. Replacing that wouldn't require removing the transmission and maybe not even the swingarm.

[jackpayback]

Crap, well this is a mystery now.  Maybe the service writer was describing the issue incorrectly.  Thank you for confirming to me that the actuator is just a piece on the outside though.  That's what I thought when I was looking at the arm he was talking about.  It looks like it just connects to a pushrod and doesn't seem to need disassembly of anything. 

I just can't fathom what could possibly cost $1,000 to do on this bike besides actually replacing the entire clutch.

[TimmyTheHog]

maybe he thought you need to change out the clutch system along with the arm?

MAYBE that I can see the $1000

But if the adjustment of the gear box isn't out and only an arm, the painstaking part will be trying to get the actuator arm in and out due to the love V7 arm location...

[Muzz]

How the h*** would you bend the clutch arm??? The only arm to my knowledge is the one at the rear.

Pete Roper would be the man to confirm but I am just about 100% sure that inside the rod pushes on to a cup in the pressure plate. Most cars have an actuator arm but the thrust bearing nestles in it. The Guzzis have it directly underneath that arm at the rear of the box and a rod goes through the box to push against the pressure plate.

[delrod]

Bump don't have anything to offer. Keep this on the page someone will be along to help

[malik]

I would think it was unlikely that the actuator arm would bend. It's cast aluminium & the same. As on all Guzzis I have seen, and many of those have survived decades of use & a use. It's possible, I suppose, but unlikely.

The arm on the V7 II & III is positioned a little differently from the earlier models (more convenient to remove & replace the cable), so it may be possible to remove it without taking off the swing arm. The earlier models do require swing arm removal. There's not a lot of room in there & access is difficult. I'd recommend removing the swing arm. It's not difficult, probably a half hour job, though longer for a first timer - it helps to take photos & make notes of where the various cables, tubes & hoses are routed. Once the swing arm is off, you have a clear view & easy access to the arm. Check that the spring between the arm & gearbox is still there & in position (if you can push the top of the a rm forward & it springs back, it's still there). Check that the mushroom under the arms operating end is more or less flush with the body of the gearbox. If recessed, you may need to replace the thrust bearing - cheap & easy, just ask us for help.

At least take the arm off & clean it up. Disconnect the cable (first loosening the cable right off at the handlebar), remove the spring, remove the split pin that holds the pivot in (replace that on reassembly with a R clip - it's easier), remove the pivot & clean, inspect & grease everything. Compare your arm with another.

If your shop is intent upon replacing parts, then they get the cost of the parts, not the labour. I have, in the past, been quoted the labour cost for replacing the clutch and the gearshift return spring (in the back of the gearbox), requiring engine & gearbox removal, at around half of your quote. So I did it myself - with the necessary help of friends. Removing & replacing everything is not really a one man job. But just the wheel & swingarm can easily be done alone.

Tips on replacing the swingarm -
-  don't forget to position the rubber boot over the uni joint before you lay it up.
- once you have the swingarm bolts on, do up the LHS first until it touches, then the RHS till it touches - there, the swingarm is now adjusted. Screw on the caps to the appreciate torque. Brilliant piece of engineering.

The first time you attack such a job, allow plenty of time, say, a day. There will be a lot of faffing around, consultation of manuals & instructions, photos & notes & a beer or 3. And it really helps to have a mate there giving you a hand. The next time, probably a few hours, and the third, probably a couple, including breaks for beer, tea, coffee, whatever. Not difficult, just fiddly. The big advantages - it's saves you a lot on money, and you get to be really familiar with your motorcycle. Disadvantages is the time it takes, firstly to do it & secondly the time it takes to learn how to do it efficiently. But the satisfaction quotient is high.

Good luck.

[jackpayback]

Thank you so much for the help everyone.  I am going to speak to the dealer again and find out exactly what they think the problem is.  I used to have the problem of feeling the clutch slip or hesitate on very hard acceleration.  Right now, I feel almost the opposite problem where I can feel in my throttle hand that the clutch seems to be grabbing almost too hard.  It is definitely worrying and I'm going to have to get it addressed soon.  It just sucks because this is how I get to work every day.  I can't take the train because it makes me want to shoot myself.

You really think this is something a novice could do, Malik?  I am not mechanically inclined although I have done my own valve checks and fluid changes and put on a new exhaust system.  I'm just worried that I won't be able to recognize something that is obviously wrong just by looking at it.  I have that V7 service manual that has all the step-by-step pictures, but it doesn't cover this stuff. 

My bike is way out of warranty, i bought it about three years ago, so I'm not worried about voiding any kind of warranty.  Just worried about my own ineptitude.

[malik]

Yes, I think a novice can take off the rear wheel & swingarm. But, and there are buts. I took the engine out - or rather, I took the bike off the engine & gearbox - replaced the clutch & took the gearbox apart, without ever having done it before. BUT, I researched it well & printed lots of stuff out - there's advice in various places on this site & on the MG 750 yahoo site. BUT I didn't do it until I had a pace to do it in, where I could leave it if it took longer, AND I had another working bike. BUT I also had some mates helping - even if they didn't know all that much, having someone else to bounce the instructions & ideas off was invaluable, AND so was the extra hands & arms. If I didn't know that what I was looking at was OK or not, I took it to someone else who knew & took their advice. I'm fortunate that there are such resources nearby.

Even so, the first time I took the bike apart, it took us at least a couple of days, lots of head scratching, and breaks along the way. The second time, the best part of a day, and the third time we knew exactly what we were doing, and only took a couple of hours. Getting it back together was another learning curve. At one stage, we got stuck on getting the throttle bodies back on. After 2 days of trying, we were nowhere, so we went for ride for a few days. Once we came back to it, it all went on, like a hot knife through butter. The lesson - when you get frustrated because nothing's working as it should, take a break, and come back to it fresh. Mostly it works. It's a Guzzi & it's Italian, and you end up learning all about that.

[Hymes Inc.]

You don't need to "remove" the swing arm to get the clutch arm off. Just scoot it back a bit. It's very simple and pretty quick. I wonder of you're having an issue with your pushrod, throwout bearing, and bushings as I did. Don't know of any differences between my 13 and your 15 so you might want to look into that. Here is the link I used to replace mine.
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?326857-V7-Clutch-Rod-and-Throw-Out-Bearing-Replacement
My adjuster at the hand lever was also broken, couldn't tell until I took the rubber boot off. We believe this caused my premature wear issue.

[jackpayback]

Thank you for the suggestions, Malik.  I have a couple buddies who can help me with the work and I have a garage where we store all our motorcycles and work on them.

And that sounds exactly like the problem I'm having Hymes!  I had never heard of this issue before.  It's just that the clutch would go more and more out of whack until I had to get a new clutch cable.  Even now, it's like the cable is stretching every day.  I am definitely going to try out that fix.  Was it expensive to replace all the parts?  Also, did you replace your clutch perch?  Mine feels like its cross threaded now and that stupid locknut won't get really tight anymore.

It's amazing how much you can solve when you got a bunch of experienced people in one room.  Thanks everyone.

[TimmyTheHog]

You don't need to "remove" the swing arm to get the clutch arm off. Just scoot it back a bit. It's very simple and pretty quick. I wonder of you're having an issue with your pushrod, throwout bearing, and bushings as I did. Don't know of any differences between my 13 and your 15 so you might want to look into that. Here is the link I used to replace mine.
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?326857-V7-Clutch-Rod-and-Throw-Out-Bearing-Replacement
My adjuster at the hand lever was also broken, couldn't tell until I took the rubber boot off. We believe this caused my premature wear issue.

Oh wow, this is a nice write up...hopefully I don't ever have to do this...

Thanks to both Hymes & Malik!

[pete roper]

Does the engine idle speed slow when you engage the clutch? I'm wondering if this is another of the bikes with missing thrust faces in the crankcase.....

[jackpayback]

I don't think it does.  Doesn't seem to sound any different when I'm pulling in the clutch.

[jackpayback]

Hymes, quick question.  How long ago did you do the clutch rod and throwout bearing replacement?  Has the bike been good since then?  Does it feel like the problem ever comes back when the bike is running hot?

[Hymes Inc.]

Hymes, quick question.  How long ago did you do the clutch rod and throwout bearing replacement?  Has the bike been good since then?  Does it feel like the problem ever comes back when the bike is running hot?

This was very recent. 1000 miles ago. No problems at all.