Rider Training - who has done it?

[wheaties]

After taking the advanced course, I was really amazed I hadn't died yet....

That's the second time I've heard that.  The first time was from my BRC MSF instructor.  He was talking about how he got started as an instructor.  A friend talked him into trying a course.

[toolittletime]

To the best of my knowledge only MFS certified instructors are allowed to patriciate/contribute during the training in any way. No local dude whatsoever, no matter how qualified they  think they may be. 

Paul

Paul

That is correct......The only exception is that we do allow"helpers...interns" to set cones between classes under our supervision. "Helpers/interns" are usually someone who is in the process of being certified. They are not allowed to address the class, except maybe to say hello, or something of that nature.

Some of the most fun I ever had was to assist in training a group of new motor officers. Most are a little timid until they realize they don't have to pay for the damage to their bikes during training. Changes the way they do maneuvers.....of course at taxpayer expense.

Tim

[pebra]

I've taken several refreshment courses, and ought to do it every start of season. Emphasis on braking and low speed manouvering.
Taking a course allows you to proceed to track riding after further training.
Needless to say you can't get too much training.
I was astonished of how much more I enjoyed riding after track training and riding!

[Perazzimx14]

I did the Basic rider course to get my license and in the spring of the following year took the Advanced Rider class as a refresher. Both classes were free to in state riders.

Glad I took them.

[kingoffleece]

When you get your first motorcycle it comes with two buckets.  One is titled "luck" and it's full.  The other is titled "experience" and it's empty.  Your job, as pilot is to fill the second bucket before the first one runs out.

The over the road classes spend a ton of time on really seeing, recognizing trouble before it happens, and having a plan in advance.
As an example, we riders are often told "ride like you're invisible".  Sounds good, but what does that REALLY mean?  Do what when?  Control traffic around you how?  Use which part of the lane where?  And so forth.  Eric Trow and his crew showed me and several others how much MORE there is to staying alive and unhurt on the streets.  We've all heard:
1) you know what you know
2) you know what you don't know
3) you don't know what you don't know

3 is where the focus was for us-and I was amazed at the results.

[roadscum]

It wasn't around when I started riding (1960's) but I think it's a good thing for newer riders.

It's also a good thing for the experienced rider. Bet you'd be surprised by what you don't know and by your lack of skill to execute during a critical situation.

Paul

[Kiwi_Roy]

Some of the most fun I ever had was to assist in training a group of new motor officers. Most are a little timid until they realize they don't have to pay for the damage to their bikes during training. Changes the way they do maneuvers.....of course at taxpayer expense.

Tim

I often wonder at the way a police officer can throw around those big Harleys, their training must be something else.

[Motormike]

I often wonder at the way a police officer can throw around those big Harleys, their training must be something else.

True, but it also helps when you don't have to worry about any repair bills after dropping the bike (several times!)

[LowRyter]

there's a lot more than meets the eye about all this.

I remember the first time I took the advanced rider MSF.  It was in the late '80s.  It took some getting used to, to slalom between cones.  So the first few times was a challenge.  And then you learn skills that you can practice on to continue to be sharp. 

I know one guy was pretty disgusted having to take mandatory rider training and also having to wear a helmet.  He would get frustrated and throw his helmet on the ground.  The instructor told him that smashing the helmet could ruin it which really needled the guy even more.

Anyway, most of us were all saying that it was really tough to take out heavy bikes and ride them among cones.  I had a "heavy" 550 Seca and other riders were on 500-750.  We thought this was all for lightweight 250 and dirt bikes.

Then when the instructor's 15 year old son got the instructors full dresser Gold Wing and went around the whole course mostly one-handed that I got the message.  Practice.  Learn something.  Balance is more important the overall weight.  And riding skills are more important than the bike you ride. 

So practice slalom, short turns in parking lots, keep your balance, learn to use the brakes.

[TimmyTheHog]

Took MSA training before I got my riding license and went thru a school program to learn how to ride properly....basic skills like countersteering, counterbalance, slow speed in parking lot, clutch control, and some amount of emergency braking.

Haven't had the chance to do an advance course as mostly are during the week & not exactly close to me.

However, been reading & watching tips and training programs so I can "self teach" myself in an open parking lot...

I honestly thank the basic training and those training programs I have been watching which saved me from crashing both on 4-wheels & 2 wheels.

Just yesterday, a major accident happened when someone went the wrong way and crash on a hwy near my house as I was going home.

As the road was wet and slippery, the training instinct kicked as I was e-braking while looking AWAY from the accident while I was navigating my way thru it....110+ KPH down to 30 KPH in a few seconds is "exciting"...

[toolittletime]

True, but it also helps when you don't have to worry about any repair bills after dropping the bike (several times!)

I think not worrying about the repair bills is the key........personal ly it would be much too embarrassing for me if I "went down" in front of a class. I learned long ago, when doing demo rides to only do it at about 90% max. Save a little for a comfort margin. That is usually more than enough for the students to get the idea. I will however do 110% if it's a competition........ .haven't broke anything yet!
I remember a few years back doing the Team Oregon track class......yes it's done on a go kart track at higher than normal speed, that was the closest I have ever came to dumping a bike. The demo was.....accelerate up to 45 mph......make a quick decel ...pause......almos t to a stop....and then  make a hard right....hard left between tall cones.....accelerat e up to 45 again and quick stop with your tire in a 2x2 painted box. I almost lost it in the slow speed maneuver.....but didn't!!!!  Did a repeat and pulled it off flawlessly.




Almost had to buy new pegs for my ST after that weekend.
Anyone can ride 100mph with their hair on fire.........try going slow in an 18 ft circle....makes you a much better rider and forces you to feel the bike and find it's balance points. Builds more confidence that going fast ever will. IMHO

Tim

[Guzzi Gal]

I would love to take moto-officer style training but, as far as I can tell, there isn't one in my area.

[kingoffleece]

That's all well and good.........bike control is a big part of it...........as is knowing what trouble looks like before it happens.  The ability to predict what will happen in the next 12 seconds will save your life as least as much as having the bike skills to avoid it.  Not to say bike skills are second-they are not-and we all love to rail thru 100 miles of turns!-but calmly moving into (or out of) where trouble is will go a long way to incident free miles.

Ken Condon does a great job with both these concepts in "Riding in the Zone" which is his book along with CD showing a lot of parking lot practice drills.  Well worth a few Sunday mornings.

[Motormike]

as is knowing what trouble looks like before it happens.  The ability to predict what will happen in the next 12 seconds will save your life as least as much as having the bike skills to avoid it.  Not to say bike skills are second-they are not-and we all love to rail thru 100 miles of turns!-but calmly moving into (or out of) where trouble is will go a long way to incident free miles.

Exactly.  To borrow the aviation saying, "A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid having to use his superior skills!"

[kingoffleece]

SO much more elegant than my ham-fisted explanation.
Thank you.

I've heard that before and it sums it up quite well, I think.  As a quick aside, I just traveled 500 miles out and back with the boy's soccer team.  Mostly interstate and larger secondary roads.  it seems like EVERY OTHER CAR we passed had the driver on the phone, and most were texting.  Be CAREFUL out there.  Idiots are everywhere.

[TimmyTheHog]

Exactly.  To borrow the aviation saying, "A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid having to use his superior skills!"

Exactly! Training helps you prepare so you may never have to use the skills which you train to hone.

my instructor said something similar with the hunting analogy: Be the hunter who anticipates and prepares so he may live to tell the tale another day. Not the hunted who blindly waits and get shot without knowing why.

[Toecutter]

First, a saying form my father (a lifetime police officer that took a LOT of driver training, including "High speed pursuit" when training to be the bodyguard for the Pope)

"any idiot can drive fast in a straight line."

I took rider training, and it's 100% worth it. To those that say "I've been riding since dirt was young I don't think I'd learn anything" I'd point to the "I'm only here to take it with my "new rider" wife, I've been riding forever" guy that was in my class... and flubbed everything.

Honestly, all a lifetime of bad habits does, is carve those bad habits in stone.

I've been on two wheels since I was 8. 38-ish years now. I REFUSE to teach anyone how to ride, beyond "That's the clutch, that's the brake, throttle and gear shift, now get off". I know damn well that I have my own bad habits now, my shortcuts, and "tricks". I'm not passing them on.

I recommend that everyone take the basic rider's course... at a minimum, before ever riding in traffic.  You'll learn stuff that will stick with you forever, and stuff that you will never learn if you don't. Want proof?  Just watch any "slow ride" at a bike event, and see how  many people can't use a clutch.  Listen to how many people argue that "counter steering is a myth".

Take it, Learn. Then throw it all out afterwards, if you think you know better. Sure, there are some things that are made "too basic" like body positioning... but it makes sense, in context of a new rider.

100% worth it.

[twowings]

One of the younger 'I got this' know-it-alls in my class hit me from behind hard enough to knock me off the bike while I was parked in line for a skills assessment...he pretty much shut down his pie hole and superior attitude after that...

[kingoffleece]

I taught SCUBA for years.  basic, advanced, mixed gas, and instructor training.  The first thing we said to new divers is that they were prepared to dive in exactly the conditions they learned in.  In other words, you earned a C card, now you need experience.  Sound a lot like  new riders?

At the first advanced divers class we asked "do you have 10 years experience or one years experience repeated 10 times"?

I'm signed up with our own Jon DelVicchio for a class this summer.  Never to old or talented to learn.

[Motormike]

One of the younger 'I got this' know-it-alls in my class hit me from behind hard enough to knock me off the bike while I was parked in line for a skills assessment...he pretty much shut down his pie hole and superior attitude after that...

I was at a track day at Barber years ago, we were lined up on the pit out lane waiting for the track to go green.  Suddenly I saw a bunch of body-work in front of me go flying and two bikes fall over.  One rider limped over to the pit wall.  Seems someone had their bike in gear and their hand slipped off the clutch lever...oops!  First time I've ever seen a red flag thrown before we even made it out onto the track!

[Ozzydog]

Rider Training has saved me a couple of times I reckon
I just had a nasty incident on L'unico, my converted Jackal to T3 replica (sort of) in Tasmania. 130 KPH over a crest into a blind left hand corner. Survived , JUST, after drifting at full lean across both lanes and into the dirt verge.She kicked up when she hit the dirt and i gassed up as hard as I could and shot off along the dirt verge on the wrong side of the road for about 100 mts until i could get back on the tarmac, all still at a stupid speed!  I was so so stupid to get into that situation (Comes close to worse time over 52 years riding), but I remain convinced riding out of the bad situation was a direct result of rider training courses over the years and practising slower versions of what happened. Of course rider training is brilliant. Learn and live.
Also I reckon having footpegs where they should be and not the feet forward lunacy of the Jackal played a large part in maintaining some control.
Chastened
Andy

[John A]

The main thing I learned is that you can ball it up and walk away but if you wad it up you'll not walk away.
Translation is if you don't hit anything you may not get seriously hurt . Think of it a balling up a sheet of paper. You can unfold it and smooth it out. If you hit something , bumper, culvert etc. or it hits you, that is wadding it up like you would tightly wad up a sheet of paper, can't be smoothed out. The other thing is when somebody tells you they had to "lay it down " it means they screwed up and lost control- couldn't ride it. The coefficient of friction is greater between rubber tires and pavement than it is between plastic or metal and pavement .