Sonny Angel 2 into 1 intake

[Perazzimx14]

Is it feasible to install one of these on my SP1000? What are the performance plusses and/or negatives? The main reason would be to lighten the throttle pull by going to 1 carb and also make it much more affordable to eventually adapt an FCR.

What say ye?

[Tusayan]

I say that the first Guzzi I ever rode was equipped with one of Sonny's manifolds and it ran very poorly as a result.  Sonny was a great guy, one of a kind, but this particular item was not his finest effort.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

IMO, there are better/less costly ways of attaining a lighter throttle pull. Lighter springs in the VHBs, a switch to Dellorto PHFs, Mikuni VMs or Keihin PWKs. I have this pair of modified manifolds (originally from an Amal equipped Eldo) that would work well for a VM or PWK swap:





Free, if you want them.

[Perazzimx14]

I've gotten lighter springs for the VBH's that are on this week's to do list.

Charlie,

I'll keep the manifolds in mind if I end up changing to VM's or PWK's. 

Thanks,

LP

[ratguzzi]

I have one of those manifolds but never tried it.
My guess is to make a 1 into 2 work right, you need a two into one exhaust to equalize things...... JOKING!!

My only problem running lighter springs in square bores is that if the cables aren't perfect or not routed perfectly, the slides will hang up a little.
I have switched to round bores and lightened the springs with good results.

JB

[harrytief]

Charlie
I'll take the manifolds as I've thought of trying a set of the PWK's.
PM me for shipping and postage
Harry

[Aldo]

I tried a Sonny Angel manifold on my Eldo in the past using different carbs (PHFs, Mikuni) and jetting to suit; I never did quite find the perfect mix to get it running right.  If I had time (patience) and an endless supply of carb bits I think I could eventually find a happy medium.  You may have better luck.  For me, it wasn't a issue of heavy carb springs, but rather the uniqueness and simplicity of going to a single carb setup that intrigued me. After much time spent fooling around with it, I just went back to my good old pair vhb29's which, frankly, have never let me down.

FWIW, on all my motorcycles, I just use a crampbuster.

[s1120]

Seems to me its main appeal would me if you were adding a turbo to the engine..

[Perazzimx14]

I tried a Sonny Angel manifold on my Eldo in the past using different carbs (PHFs, Mikuni) and jetting to suit; I never did quite find the perfect mix to get it running right.  If I had time (patience) and an endless supply of carb bits I think I could eventually find a happy medium.  You may have better luck.  For me, it wasn't a issue of heavy carb springs, but rather the uniqueness and simplicity of going to a single carb setup that intrigued me. After much time spent fooling around with it, I just went back to my good old pair vhb29's which, frankly, have never let me down.

FWIW, on all my motorcycles, I just use a crampbuster.

Uniqueness and simplicity are also benefits I considered.

I used cramp busters too but after extremely light throttles on FI bikes or even like on my DR650 the dual carbs a 14" pipe wrench on the Guzzi throttle tube might be more befitting.

[Shorty]

Just looking at that manifold, I'm wondering if it would benefit from a longer intake track. Maybe a 6 or 8 inch hose or pipe between the intake and carb. Just a wild guess.

[pete roper]

Looking at that manifold I'm thinking the best place for it would be back in the smelter.

Even the manifold on my Shitty old Lilacs was a better design! How in the name of all that's holy are you going to jet a single carburettor to supply an even marginally correct mixture when you have no plenum chamber and one side the charge has to make a 90 degree turn before it gets anywhere near the port?!

It's a joke surely?

Pete

[Perazzimx14]

Looking at that manifold I'm thinking the best place for it would be back in the smelter.

Even the manifold on my Shitty old Lilacs was a better design! How in the name of all that's holy are you going to jet a single carburettor to supply an even marginally correct mixture when you have no plenum chamber and one side the charge has to make a 90 degree turn before it gets anywhere near the port?!

It's a joke surely?

Pete

It actually turns more like 215 degree's.

So what your saying is its like drinking beer from a didgeridoo on Australia day? Not recommended!

[s1120]

Looking at that manifold I'm thinking the best place for it would be back in the smelter.

Even the manifold on my Shitty old Lilacs was a better design! How in the name of all that's holy are you going to jet a single carburettor to supply an even marginally correct mixture when you have no plenum chamber and one side the charge has to make a 90 degree turn before it gets anywhere near the port?!

It's a joke surely?

Pete

Ya i can see that jetting to get the one side right, would only make the other vary lean, or rich depending on what bank..  Maybe fine for port injection.. but MAN thats gotta run REAL bad on a cold damp morning when that fuel is puddling everywhere in that intake.

[tris]

Or a AMR300.

A dual plane plenum manifold would probably work for a single carburetor application.

Well I've just learnt what a dual plane plenum manifold is - thanks 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Sonny Angel himself has been quoted as saying he never got it to work well. That tells me all I need to know.

[Tusayan]

Sonny did a lot for the experience, to see how it would work regardless of theory.  He would happily talk about experiments that worked well, and those from which mainly experience was gained.  Notable among the latter was the 4 cylinder Imp powered Norton (actually there were two of them, or so I'm told)...  From that he claimed to have learned that twins were better than fours, despite having previously thought fours (e.g. Italian GP racers) were the ultimate. 

Nice photos here, a site organized by his son in law.

https://m.facebook.com/pg/sonnyangellegend/photos/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Sonny did a lot for the experience, to see how it would work regardless of theory.  He would happily talk about experiments that worked well, and those from which mainly experience was gained.  Notable among the latter was the 4 cylinder Imp powered Norton (actually there were two of them, or so I'm told)...  From that he claimed to have learned that twins were better than fours, despite having previously thought fours (e.g. Italian GP racers) were the ultimate. 

Nice photos here, a site organized by his son in law.

https://m.facebook.com/pg/sonnyangellegend/photos/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0

There's one of the Nortons for sale on the Vintage Motorcycles For Sale page on Facebook.

Mark Brush
December 18, 2018
1962 Norton Atlas "Four", built by Sonny Angel
$13,000
Jamul, CA

1962 Norton Atlas chassis, number 20-111846 (have paperwork) with Hillman IMP British car engine, built by Sonny Angel of Sonny Angel Motorcycles. Sonny passed away June 2018.

Sonny purchased the chassis on 27 March 1967 with intent to build his four-cylinder prototype. Sonny was a Norton dealer in San Diego CA at the time (Sonny Angel Motorcycles, National City, CA), and recognized that inline-four motorcycles were the future. He built the prototype to convince Norton they needed to change direction. The bike ran well, very smooth. Overheated above 80mph because the aviation-type radiator core was too small and located behind the motor.

Sonny sent photos of the bike along with description to Norton. Several weeks later, he received a reply from Norton appreciated his efforts, they weren't interested in building four cylinder motorcycles. The prototype stayed on display in his shop for a number of years, then went into storage. Was protected from the elements, and fared very well.

Bike hasn't been started in roughly 45 years. Not restored in any way, untouched from the day he finished it back in 1967.

Bike is located in San Diego, CA. Will ship, buyer is responsible for making arrangements. Price negotiable.

[Tusayan]

The biggest functional/practical issue with the Imp powered Norton was cooling.  There was no obvious space for a sufficiently large radiator.

[tris]

.....
1962 Norton Atlas chassis, number 20-111846 (have paperwork) with Hillman IMP British car engine, built by Sonny Angel of Sonny Angel Motorcycles. Sonny passed away June 2018.

Sonny purchased the chassis on 27 March 1967 with intent to build his four-cylinder prototype. Sonny was a Norton dealer in San Diego CA at the time (Sonny Angel Motorcycles, National City, CA), and recognized that inline-four motorcycles were the future. He built the prototype to convince Norton they needed to change direction. The bike ran well, very smooth. Overheated above 80mph because the aviation-type radiator core was too small and located behind the motor.
....

I thought all Imps over heated - mine certainly did at every given opportunity