Author Topic: Pain in the rear  (Read 1027 times)

Online Wayne Orwig

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Pain in the rear
« on: March 15, 2019, 11:38:42 AM »
Rear drive that is.

I am trying to shim a new set of rear drive gears. Every time I read a manual on this, my eyes glaze over. About like me trying to read a legal document.  :rolleyes:

Virtually EVER manual on the subject, describes it differently. Some of them take the reading from the pattern on the ring gear teeth, some from the pinion gear teeth. Some of the manuals have pictures that are worthless (a copy of a copy). I have two Guzzi manuals from different years. Same pictures. But one of them describes what changed needed for that photo, differently then the other manual. So the two manuals don't agree.

Has anyone done this and found a manually that is good?
Did you read the pattern on the pinion, or ring gear?

 
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Online RinkRat II

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2019, 12:16:38 PM »

    Read the ring gear, it tells you what the pinion is doing.

       Paul B  :boozing:
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Online John A

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2019, 01:20:52 PM »
Pete wrote up an article that is the best I've found, I printed it years ago and may have come from GuzziTech .  If I can find it I'll post a link.  what ratio?  Sidecar gears are troublesome because the pinion gear is so damn small.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 01:24:02 PM by John A »
John
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Online acogoff

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2019, 01:48:02 PM »
    The drive side of the Ring gear teeth is what works for me. The GM #1052351 marking compound available in a one oz. tube from most any General Motors dealer will also help you from going down the primrose path. I have found a proper mark sure makes the tedious job a whole lot simpler.
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Offline mtiberio

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2019, 03:32:20 PM »
Dr John, when he was working for the factory got the dimensions of a jig/tool that the factory uses to set the rear drive gears (you don't think they do trial assemblies and markup fluid on everyone they build, do you?). Dr John then gave those dimensions to Manfred Hecht. Manfred made a copy of the tool, and used it for years. In 2001, when Manfred got out, Charlie Cole bought up Manfred's stuff and got the tool, and was using it for years to set up rear ends. Charlie is either retired or semi-retired. Someone needs to pick up that torch and get the tool or the dimensions and set up a gear set up service.

Online John A

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2019, 05:07:15 PM »
How about you, Mike?  You are mechanically talented and know the ways of Guzzi.
John
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Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2019, 09:17:41 AM »
    Read the ring gear, it tells you what the pinion is doing.

After wasting a lot of time trying to read the pinion gear teeth as the two Guzzi manuals describe, I switched to the ring gear. Much easier to read.
I am getting there now. I'll likely need to order some more shims, but I am close.

Next up is figuring out how to measure the free play.

This 8/35 should let me use 4th a bit more, and run about 4000 RPM on the highway, like I want.
 
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Online John A

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 12:18:43 PM »
How about you, Mike?  You are mechanically talented and know the ways of Guzzi.


I didn't mean to surprise you like that Mike.  I know it would be a huge commitment. So I was hoping someone I could trust, like yourself,  would get a hold of the tools to set these things up correctly without the time consuming method we currently use.
John
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 12:51:47 PM »
Charley Cole's status is unknown and I've been unable to contact him for quite some time (4 years at least). Hard to "pick up that torch and get the tool or the dimensions and set up a gear set up service" if you can't even contact him.
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2019, 06:41:44 PM »
After wasting a lot of time trying to read the pinion gear teeth as the two Guzzi manuals describe, I switched to the ring gear. Much easier to read.
I am getting there now. I'll likely need to order some more shims, but I am close.

Next up is figuring out how to measure the free play.

This 8/35 should let me use 4th a bit more, and run about 4000 RPM on the highway, like I want.

You should maintain your past performance by putting the first V85 in Ga. In the garage.
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Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 04:07:03 PM »
Finally finished shimming the gears.

I went to a ride, being somewhat careful to break them in gently. But a bit higher speed near the end of the 12 or so mile ride.

My IR thermometer showed the rear drive was at about 115F degrees. The ambient temp is 71F.

Pretty warm. Am I just being overly cautious?
The rear drive did not make any unusual noise. The gears in the gearbox make more noise.
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2019, 07:21:49 PM »
I have a hard time getting a rear drive to get warm enough to change the fluid. 115 is barely warm, IMHO..  :smiley: I'd think if something were wrong, that sucker would be hot. <shrug>
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Online acogoff

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2019, 08:36:34 AM »
    I remember checking my final drive with an IR gun gauge a few years ago, I can't remember what the numbers were though, but I do remember the reading was higher if I read on the narrow front steel chunk that contains the pinion setup instead of just pointing at the aluminum housing. Infrared red guns are funny that way depending on the type of surface you are pointing at.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 08:38:22 AM by acogoff »
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Online RinkRat II

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2019, 08:50:11 AM »

         
Quote
Pretty warm. Am I just being overly cautious?

     Yes. 12 miles isn't far enough to get it up to operating temp. It is a good start, you said smooth and no noise, leaks etc. Go do a 50 or 75 mile loop and you'll probably see 140 ish temps. Good enough to boil off the condensation and then change the oil when you get home and inspect for any weird stuff. Probably just fine.

       Paul B :boozing:
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Offline bigbikerrick

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2019, 11:32:04 AM »
         
     Yes. 12 miles isn't far enough to get it up to operating temp. It is a good start, you said smooth and no noise, leaks etc. Go do a 50 or 75 mile loop and you'll probably see 140 ish temps. Good enough to boil off the condensation and then change the oil when you get home and inspect for any weird stuff. Probably just fine.

       Paul B :boozing:
I agree with Paul. Guzzi rear drives  seem to run fairly hot.  After a highway run at speed, with the ambient temps in Arizona around 100F, you cant press your hand against the housing. It feels almost as hot as the engine crankcase!
I have been using the redline shockproof heavy pink milkshake in all my Guzzis, except the eldorado with the sump type rear drive. It does seem to help keep the temps down some, though I have not verified with an IR thermometer.
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Online John A

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2019, 12:32:56 PM »
A trick I used when I was using an IR temp gun on shiny leading edge de ice surfaces on aircraft is to color a spot black with a Sharpie. Try a couple spots with that.  They do run hotter than I thought they would, generally around 175F or more after about a half hour at road speed, depending on ambient temp, of course. I wouldn't yard it apart yet Wayne, its probably just fine.
John
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Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Pain in the rear
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2019, 03:57:12 PM »
They do run hotter than I thought they would, generally around 175F or more after about a half hour at road speed, depending on ambient temp, of course.


Wow, toasty. Good to know. I know my old one was very warm after a spirited ride, but I never had a number for it.
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