1972 Eldorado revival

[Slarsonroy]

I bought a project bike from a friend who had it for several years and he bought it at an estate sale, so the bike has been sitting for 30 years or better. I cut out a handful of all red wire, replaced the generator and regulator and fired her up. She runs great but smokes when I let off the throttle. 84,000 miles on the odometer is starting to show. I determined it still retains chrome lined cylinders so I found a set of 850 cylinders with iron bores and matching pistons/rings on ebay for $100 so I can hopefully use those. I changed the oil after initial run and it looks dirty but no metal fragments at all. The sludge in the pan was cleaned out and new oil put in. She runs nicely down the road and the 5 speed is lovely.

My question is, do they still stack base gaskets or make spacers for the cylinders to lower the compression for todays gasoline? It doesn't seem to ping too badly now, wondering if I need to do anything different.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I would definitely not stack gaskets or anything else to lower compression. Lowering compression would just be masking the real issues. If it's pinging, then it's likely two things: 1) the valve guides and valves are worn and need to be replaced ("smokes when I let off the throttle" is a dead giveaway, plus the mileage), 2) the distributor advance springs are stretched and allowing timing to advance too quickly. In some cases it might still "ping" with new springs, in which case the use of two of the "normal" springs (vs. one normal and one with a oblong loop end) are used.

[normzone]

Go, [Slarsonroy], go!

You're going to love this bike. That was my first Guzzi - I put a hundred plus K miles on it.

[rschrum]

1st Guzzi I ever rode, I was my Dad's. Would pull great wheelies bang shifting 2nd and 3rd, with girlfriend on back.

[normzone]

1st Guzzi I ever rode, I was my Dad's. Would pull great wheelies bang shifting 2nd and 3rd, with girlfriend on back.

I was my Dad's also. But my girlfriend wasn't big enough to make the bike wheelie.

 

[brider]

I determined it still retains chrome lined cylinders so I found a set of 850 cylinders with iron bores and matching pistons/rings on ebay for $100 so I can hopefully use those.

May I ask what model the iron-bore 850 cyls were off of? I'm guessing some later 850T model? Are the cyl skirts and such compatable with the eldo cases?

[Furbo]

I would definitely not stack gaskets or anything else to lower compression. Lowering compression would just be masking the real issues. If it's pinging, then it's likely two things: 1) the valve guides and valves are worn and need to be replaced ("smokes when I let off the throttle" is a dead giveaway, plus the mileage), 2) the distributor advance springs are stretched and allowing timing to advance too quickly. In some cases it might still "ping" with new springs, in which case the use of two of the "normal" springs (vs. one normal and one with a oblong loop end) are used.

What Charlie said.

Smoking - yep, ya need a valve job. Get the guides, and any competent VW shop (or machine shop familiar with AC VW's)  can do that if there's no real Guzzi wrench around.

Cyls - resist the urge to go cheap and get new Gilardoni's. Also - unless you want to take out  the crank for re-balancing, resist the urge to increase displacement. The round fin 850 is one of the best balanced engines Guzzi ever turned out.

Wiring. when I restored my Eldo, I rewired it with 5 circuits and put a modern spade fuse box in one of the tool cases. Much simpler set up.

Timing - again - what Charlie said. Once you get the new springs, I advocate setting the timing dynamically at Full Advance rather than idle. alotta slop in that system at idle that gets taken up at speed. That's where your engine spends its time anyway.

Love Eldo's. Have had several and an 850GT (Euro version). Still have the original one I bought for $250 from a dude in a trailer park in Hereford, Texas in 1987.
 

[Slarsonroy]

May I ask what model the iron-bore 850 cyls were off of? I'm guessing some later 850T model? Are the cyl skirts and such compatable with the eldo cases?

Im not sure but they came off a low mileage Eldorado. At least that's what was stated. Maybe they were already modified? I will have a look when they arrive.

[Slarsonroy]

I would definitely not stack gaskets or anything else to lower compression. Lowering compression would just be masking the real issues. If it's pinging, then it's likely two things: 1) the valve guides and valves are worn and need to be replaced ("smokes when I let off the throttle" is a dead giveaway, plus the mileage), 2) the distributor advance springs are stretched and allowing timing to advance too quickly. In some cases it might still "ping" with new springs, in which case the use of two of the "normal" springs (vs. one normal and one with a oblong loop end) are used.

Good advice, thank you. I just got this bike running, so I think I will put a few miles on it and see if any problems surface and go from there. My initial trip down my 1/2 mile gravel and mud driveway had me thinking the transmission or rear end had a serious issue but ended up finding my centerstand was dragging in the mud due to the exhaust crossover wouldn't allow it to fully return. 

[Slarsonroy]

Today I made some progress. I removed the left valve cover in anticipation of replacing the cylinders and rebuilding the heads. As the last valve cover bolt came out, I pulled up the cover and dumped about at least a quart of oIL on the lift and the floor. Well that's not normal I thought. Further inspection found the oil drain through the head and cylinder was blocked. I stuck a long skinny screwdriver into the hole a few times and something gave way and now I have an open drain. Well that certainly could cause the smoking in the left cylinder. I dropped the pan and couldn't find anything. Maybe it was something on the head gasket? Anyway, I buttoned it back up and started it, slight smoking in the left side.  I ran it down the road a few miles and no smoke at full throttle, no smoke when I let off the throttle and no smoke at idle.

[T4halo]

Really nice looking bike. Enjoy!

T4

[Slarsonroy]

I let the bike set all night and started it again today and absolutely no smoke and also found out some more good news. I just bought a couple more bikes from the guy that I bought this Guzzi from and he told me the motor was rebuilt by the previous owner. So I might possibly have Nikasil cylinders! Im guessing he rebuilt the motor, had an issue with it smoking, and never found out what caused it? He had passed away so I will never know for sure. This year looks promising for some Guzzi miles.

[larrys]

That's a nice looking Eldo! I would keep it as-is, well maybe not the Sportster mufflers...
Larry

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I let the bike set all night and started it again today and absolutely no smoke and also found out some more good news. I just bought a couple more bikes from the guy that I bought this Guzzi from and he told me the motor was rebuilt by the previous owner. So I might possibly have Nikasil cylinders! Im guessing he rebuilt the motor, had an issue with it smoking, and never found out what caused it? He had passed away so I will never know for sure. This year looks promising for some Guzzi miles.

So why not find out for sure? Takes five minutes with a "pencil magnet".

[Perazzimx14]

It sounds like at least the cylinders were off because someone put the base gasket in wrong during reassembly.

[Slarsonroy]

So why not find out for sure? Takes five minutes with a "pencil magnet".

I did that, it didn't seem to stick and I don't know how "slight" the attraction is to Nikasil. Im not going to worry about it, both cylinders have 160 psi compression.

[Slarsonroy]

That's a nice looking Eldo! I would keep it as-is, well maybe not the Sportster mufflers...
Larry

I don't really like the look of the sporty mufflers either, but I like them a lot more than what WAS on there. I tried some fishtails with just baffles but they were way too loud. Im sure I will come across something more appealing but these will do for now.

[Slarsonroy]

Update on the progress of this Eldorado. My normal "break in" procedure for a so called barn bike is to take short rides away from home and increasingly longer trips if the first ones are successful. 1st ride was 5 miles and another and another, all minor issues. Brakes need adjusted, horn didn't work, saddlebag bracket was loose, etc. All easy fixes, I decided to go a longer trip and made it 15 miles before the generator light came on. Turned it back home, found a good spare on ebay for $30 and Im ready for another trip.

30 more miles and all of a sudden I have a noisy lifter in the right head. I pull over and let it idle and it goes away. Take off again and as soon as I decelerate or accelerate hard, I hear it again. My first mistake is that I didn't take any tools with me. Damn, head towards home and make it back ok. I pulled the valve cover and check valve lash, all good. So I keep going and pull the head. All looks good, pull the valve springs and valves out, nothing. Then I used my thumb to push down on the valve guides and the exhaust valve guide drops down about a full inch. Well there we go. So I had a friend in the AMCA machine a new oversized one for me and back together I go.

Next run down the road lasted 5 minutes before the ebay generator gave up. (Brand new regulator). The field windings were smoked. That's it! I ordered an alternator kit from Scrambler Cycle and it was a nice and easy fit. All is well and Im ready for another ride over 30 miles.

[Slarsonroy]

Having given up on the used generators, I replaced it with a Scrambler Cycle alternator with retrofit brackets. Easy install, no more charging problems. Ive been riding the Eldo a lot lately and I believe all the bugs have been worked out. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

If it has Gilardonis, it will say so on the bottom of the cylinder. If it doesn't, you are sitting on a grenade.. <shrug> It's only a matter of time.
Nice bike, though..