Finding neutral on a v7 III

[Thirtyaughtsix]

So I got my new Stone (more on that later), 100 miles so far and I'm having a devil of a time for the most part getting the thing in to neutral, be it at a stand still or at speed. For me it's easier going up into it from first, I sorta leverage my heel on the peg and "squeeze" the shift lever up into it, a noted difference from my 850T where I can sort of snap into it easy peasy from either direction.

I guess what I'm asking is, will it get better with time? I'm liking to think it will need to break in like everything else. Any chance I can help it myself?

[Kev m]

Usually that's an indication of poor clutch adjustment.

It's a small range, and sometimes it's not completely disengaging, or not unless the lever is firm against the grip.

So Jenn struggles with it a little (smaller hands) on our III when I don't.

[Roebling3]

Your clutch may be out of adjustment - dragging. Making light contact with the fly wheel despite the lever being pulled to the grip. Locate the small rubber boot on the clutch cable where it enters the lever. Beneath that boot is an adjuster. If you have the owners manual (4 x 6" x 1", black cover, white lettering. V7 III), go to pages 120 - 121 for details. R3~

[grame99]

Clutch lever adjustment - the play in the gap needs to be 2mm. Fixes the neutral issue. It's covered in the manual.

[twowheeladdict]

Considering that I've owned a string of Kawasakis with the positive neutral finder, every other bike took a little time to master the finesse of only applying enough force to put it into neutral and not into the next gear. 

It is now easy to do. 

Jumping from bike to bike and dealing the different friction zones is always interesting as well.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

Your clutch may be out of adjustment - dragging. Making light contact with the fly wheel despite the lever being pulled to the grip. Locate the small rubber boot on the clutch cable where it enters the lever. Beneath that boot is an adjuster. If you have the owners manual (4 x 6" x 1", black cover, white lettering. V7 III), go to pages 120 - 121 for details. R3~

Will do, will take a look and report back.

[kballowe]

Mine was "sticky" when it was brand new. 

The clutch was adjusted as it should be - and after several hundred miles - the shift mechanism "loosened up" a bit.

[Vagrant]

the earlier 5 speeds popped into neutral so easily with lots of clutch free play but the 6 speed is a whole different animal. it calls for 2 MM thats 80 thousands like almost none! I found a 2.5 or 100 thousands drill bit and used it to set the free play and it shifts pretty good now. the 80 or 2mm is better but I just can't bare to do it.

[Kev m]

the earlier 5 speeds popped into neutral so easily with lots of clutch free play but the 6 speed is a whole different animal. it calls for 2 MM thats 80 thousands like almost none! I found a 2.5 or 100 thousands drill bit and used it to set the free play and it shifts pretty good now. the 80 or 2mm is better but I just can't bare to do it.

I don't think the 5-spd spec was much more off the top of my head, maybe 3 mm?

I took two different demo rides at different dealers over the years where the 5-spd was so poorly setup I had to adjust it myself to find neutral. One was a B7 and the other the first V7 Stone that FBF got. In both cases it appeared I was the first to ride then at that dealership.

Maybe it's worse on the 6-spd, but not much and for the same reason, too much play = drag.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

As per Greg Bender under his loop frame topics: "Finally, use the adjuster at the handlebar lever to fine-tune the last little bit of adjustment. When the handlebar lever pivots, there should be 4 mm (~1⁄8 inch) of cable free play (measured as shown below) before the cable begins disengaging the clutch. It is very important to ensure that there is 4 mm (~1⁄8 inch) of cable free play. Without the free play, the cable will keep the throw out bearing in constant motion and, the throw out bearing is not designed to handle constant movement...only occassional movement when the gears are being changed in the transmission."

My particular owners manual calls for 2mm. I'll keep a trained eye on it for awhile, I've ruined enough throwout setups on my 850T to know how much I don't like replacing them. I'd think for a least a few hundred miles yet the cable will want to stretch and lengthen as well.

[Kev m]

Yeah too much freeplay is safer than too little for that reason. Maybe that's why I've come across so many that are adjusted with too much.

However when you have too much play you run out of lever stroke before the clutch fully disengages and you can get the symptoms you've described.

It's a balance.

[Guzzi Gal]

Short story > Just ride 'er and all will be well.

Long story > Initially, I couldn't find neutral to save my life so I adjusted the clutch without much success.  Time and use made the biggest difference.  She's still a little picky, requiring a very gentle nudge to hit neutral, and sometimes won't engage first gear without going into second and back down again.  Both issues are slowly disappearing with more miles on the clock.  

[Huzo]

‘‘Twas a time in days of yore, when every new Guzzi was delivered with a box of neutrals already installed..!
(One between every gear.. )

[Siamese]

I just got a new V7III Special, and neutral's a bit of a trick.  I have about 575 miles on mine, and I think I've pretty much got the hang of finding neutral.  When you're slowing down, and you're in 2nd, pull in the clutch, take your left foot off the peg, and use it to fan air over the gear lever.  That's all the pressure that's needed to slip it into neutral. 

But seriously, finding neutral is a little tricky.  I just employ a few different tricks to get there.  Can't always catch it from 2nd, and can't always catch it from first.  If it's giving me a little trouble, letting the clutch out for a brief moment seems to jostle it's innards enough to allow an easy transition to neutral. 

It's a little fussy, and it seems you have to be sensitive to what the bike is thinking. 

[Thirtyaughtsix]

It was set dead at 2mm, I brought it out to a hair short of 3mm and that made it basically impossible to find neutral, standstill or moving. I set it back to 2mm and not a smidge beyond, I know all too well what happens when there's too little free play. I do seem to be getting more used to it but it's no where near 2nd nature like I want it to be, almost seems like I have to hold my breath and stare at the dash and just will it into neutral with my mind. Really hoping it'll continue to break in

[malik]

Be of brave heart & persevere. I do know that when my cousin came out from the UK & borrowed the Special to ride around  the island, it did seem to take him a couple of weeks to become comfortable with the gear change mechanism, especially finding neutral from 2nd. He normally rides a UJM, so Italian seduction techniques were foreign to his prior experience. But riding all day, every day, he learned the trick. Of course, I had absolutely no difficulties with his TDM.

It seems there is a technique with the small blocks. I do know that on the odd ocassion when I have resistance finding neutral, it means the cable needs adjusting. Keep at it. You can even find the engine revs appropriate for each gear where the clutch is barely needed at all.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

So I commuted on it today for the first time, 40 miles of mostly interstate highway in 6th gear, and I've discovered without question it finds neutral easier when it's been ran for awhile, or warmed up. I.E. the in town stuff prior to the highway it's basically impossible to find neutral, and 35 miles later after the highway and back in town it's super easy to find neutral. I kept this in mind as I rode it home and sure enough the same thing repeated itself. Thoughts?

[usedtobefast]

Are you guys trying to go from 2nd to neutral?  I typically downshift all the way to 1st.  Then if the light seems long and I want to go to neutral I'm going from 1st -> neutral.  Bike is a V7 iii Racer.  Never had issues from 3 miles up to ~2500 that I have on it now. 

I have had a lot of KTM and Husqvarna dirt bikes, so maybe my half click with the toe got honed with those.     (If you don't know, a Husky or KTM 4 stroke dirt bike is very hard to get into neutral at a stop)

And when people say it is hard, are you going 1st -> 2nd?  Then 2nd -> 1st.  1st -> 2nd, whoops light green, off we go?  Or do you literally mean it is hard to pull up on the shift lever at a top with bike running and clutch lever pulled in?

I have adjusted my clutch cable once, around 500 miles I think. 

[Guzzi Gal]

Are you guys trying to go from 2nd to neutral?  I typically downshift all the way to 1st.  Then if the light seems long and I want to go to neutral I'm going from 1st -> neutral.  Bike is a V7 iii Racer.  Never had issues from 3 miles up to ~2500 that I have on it now. 

I have had a lot of KTM and Husqvarna dirt bikes, so maybe my half click with the toe got honed with those.     (If you don't know, a Husky or KTM 4 stroke dirt bike is very hard to get into neutral at a stop)

And when people say it is hard, are you going 1st -> 2nd?  Then 2nd -> 1st.  1st -> 2nd, whoops light green, off we go?  Or do you literally mean it is hard to pull up on the shift lever at a top with bike running and clutch lever pulled in?

I have adjusted my clutch cable once, around 500 miles I think. 

It's not a strength or finesse thing.  For me, getting into neutral from 1st was difficult, like it didn't exist, but only on the V7 III.  It started to get a little easier but then decided to ignore my request for 1st and go into neutral instead (popping up to 2nd then back to 1st worked).  Both of these issues have mellowed but still occur occasionally.

[Huzo]

Ahhh...
“Character...”

[Kev m]

Put another 100 miles on Jenn's new V7IIID today. A little over 450 miles on it now.

Can't say I noticed a single problem finding neutral the whole time, not that I needed to much but definitely did.

I haven't checked clutch adjustment, but there's definitely play.

I know Jenn said it is tough for her if she doesn't make sure the lever is at the grip. It's a complete non-issue for me, but I do have 15k more miles practice on my Stone. So maybe technique is part of it.

< shrugs >

[kingoffleece]

Yea, what's the deal?  In first at a stop-slip the clutch ever so slightly while applying slight upward pressure and presto-N lights up.  Works on every motorcycle I've ever rode with left side shift.

[s1120]

I bet a lot will take care of itself after some more breakin miles on the bike AND you..  Takes some miles for the two of you to meld together

[Bulldog9]

Without a doubt the range of motion on the shift lever for the V7 2 and 3 is very different than my other Moto Guzzi's. I found that every motorcycle has some variation in how it shifts and how to engage neutral. I find that after spending time on the Norge or Griso that when I hop on the stornello I end up missing neutral three out of four times untill I adjust. For me it's all about muscle memory and finesse. After a couple hours on the stornello, I adjust and finding neutral is less problem, though it definitely takes a VERY light touch.

In general, I find the V7 transmission to be one of the lightest I've ever ridden. Of course that's compared to my two other Moto Guzzi, a Yamaha FJR 1300, and my ancient XS bikes.

After reading the post about lever free play adjustment, I checked mine last night. The factory recommended Gap is far too small for me I have mine adjusted to probably 8 to 10 mm of free play on the lever. I didn't like how quickly the clutch engaged from the factory.

[Kev m]

After reading the post about lever free play adjustment, I checked mine last night. The factory recommended Gap is far too small for me I have mine adjusted to probably 8 to 10 mm of free play on the lever. I didn't like how quickly the clutch engaged from the factory.

Where are you measuring that - at the gap or the tip of the lever? I hope you mean tip?

If at the gap, how does it fully disengage?!?

[Bulldog9]

Where are you measuring that - at the gap or the tip of the lever? I hope you mean tip?

If at the gap, how does it fully disengage?!?

At the gap. Clutch fully disengages.

[twowheeladdict]

So I commuted on it today for the first time, 40 miles of mostly interstate highway in 6th gear, and I've discovered without question it finds neutral easier when it's been ran for awhile, or warmed up. I.E. the in town stuff prior to the highway it's basically impossible to find neutral, and 35 miles later after the highway and back in town it's super easy to find neutral. I kept this in mind as I rode it home and sure enough the same thing repeated itself. Thoughts?

I only put my bikes in neutral in the garage or if I am backing them up.

My street training says to be in first gear and ready to go to get out of trouble.  Plus, the dry clutch sounds funny in neutral.  :)

[benebob]

Curious about this "free play".  My clutch cable has the arm pulled all the time so I can't get any free play at all at mine like I can with every other bike I've ever owned that didn't have a hyd. clutch.  The adjuster is out a solid 1/2 inch or so as well.  If I back it in to get free play the clutch doesn't fully release. Wondering if my bike wasn't just missing a crush washer on the oil pan, had both the bolts holding the abs mod on inserted by a moron at the factory but now maybe has a thrust washer missing.  It is a very early 16.  Makes me think I should have gotten an Enfield. :( 

[Thirtyaughtsix]

Are you guys trying to go from 2nd to neutral?  I typically downshift all the way to 1st.  Then if the light seems long and I want to go to neutral I'm going from 1st -> neutral.  Bike is a V7 iii Racer.  Never had issues from 3 miles up to ~2500 that I have on it now. 

I have had a lot of KTM and Husqvarna dirt bikes, so maybe my half click with the toe got honed with those.     (If you don't know, a Husky or KTM 4 stroke dirt bike is very hard to get into neutral at a stop)

And when people say it is hard, are you going 1st -> 2nd?  Then 2nd -> 1st.  1st -> 2nd, whoops light green, off we go?  Or do you literally mean it is hard to pull up on the shift lever at a top with bike running and clutch lever pulled in?

I have adjusted my clutch cable once, around 500 miles I think.

In my case neutral from either direction, it's very hard if I haven't been riding around already for 15 or so minutes, after that it seems much more willing to slide into neutral. And I'm serious about it being hard, within those first 15ish minutes I'm going to miss neutral 9 out of 10 times, no matter which direction I try to go into from. I try my best to ease the gear shifter in either direction, I feel it tense up and hit a "wall" of sorts, I very carefully roll on the pressure and then the whole thing breaks the "wall" blowing past neutral, and then I've shifted into either 1st or 2nd. I've done this using the area closest to my heel as I can in order to have the least amount of leverage, and still nothing seems to work within those first 15 minutes. I'm hoping they'll wear a little more and ease up, only just crossed 400 miles so far. I realized as I've typed this out it may be my glove too, I've used a bulky colder weather glove for all of my riding so far because Ohio so I'm thinking maybe this whole time I haven't had the clutch lever 100% to the grip like I thought I had, so I'll try a more tactile glove and see what happens.

I only put my bikes in neutral in the garage or if I am backing them up.

My street training says to be in first gear and ready to go to get out of trouble.  Plus, the dry clutch sounds funny in neutral.  :)

I would but fear of boring out my clutch hub has me inadvertently trained to only have the clutch lever in unless I absolutely have to, I'm sure the whole thing can tolerate more than I give it credit for, I'm sure the components are better than they were from 1975. Still doesn't change the fact I'd like the prolong its life for as long as possible however

[twowheeladdict]

I would but fear of boring out my clutch hub has me inadvertently trained to only have the clutch lever in unless I absolutely have to, I'm sure the whole thing can tolerate more than I give it credit for, I'm sure the components are better than they were from 1975. Still doesn't change the fact I'd like the prolong its life for as long as possible however

Fortunately, where I ride waiting at a light is so rare an occurrence it won't matter.  If you have seen my photo posts you know I don't ride in traffic, and in town might mean one stop light.