Obstinate Tire

[Diploman]

I'm fitting a new set of Avon AM26 RoadRiders to my V50, after two sets of BT-45's (which work well but wear quickly on the abrasive chip and seal in this area).  The bike's rims are converted to tubeless and have been trouble-free for years.  The front AM26 went on without problems and seated perfectly on the first inflation.  The rear, however, is a different story.
 
First try:  The rear tire would not hold enough air to even begin to seat the bead.
 
Second try:  After checking rim shoulders and edges for any irregularities (worked fine for two sets of BT-45's), I carefully re-lubed, then was able to get the bead to seat somewhat, still leaking, but taking overnight to deflate.  About 3/5 of the bead was seated correctly, but the rest was slightly folded under so the rim edge marker on the tire was submerged under the rim edge for nearly half the tire's circumference.  Distance between the tire rime edge and the tire tread was about 1/4 inch less on the folded section than on the correctly seated section.  Heated the tire with heat gun, bounced, hit with plastic dead blow hammer, no joy.
 
Third Try:  Levered off one bead, rotated the tire 90 degrees, amply lubed rim shoulders, edge and tire bead, remounted tire. Set compressor at 60 lbs and filled tire.   Bead set was improved a bit so that only about 1/3 of the bead on both sides is now incompletely set, but the same section still refuses to seat, even though it now is on a different section of the rim.  Interestingly, the tire now is holding air perfectly, even though the bead set is asymmetrical.  My planned next step is to remove the valve core and slam the tire with a sudden 60-70 lbs of pressure, once I rig up a means of doing this.  (The air valve on my compressor requires a valve core on the rim valve stem to press the center stem on the compressor valve.  Thinking of taking off compressor filler valve and connecting with a length of 1/4 inch hose.)

I'm not a tire expert but have done about 15-20 tires at home and know the drill sufficiently for most cases.  I have never before, however, experienced a tire so recalcitrant in seating as this one.  Would appreciate some suggestions and advice about how to resolve this conundrum without resorting to life-threatening tactics.  Thanks, gentlemen and ladies.

[mtiberio]

1) make sure the tire is warm if you are in a cold climate
2) make sure there are no casting nubs folded under at the tire rim interface (can cause leaks)
3) If you cant get to initially seat, try a rope or strap around the circumference and tighten
4) I have used tons of air to seat beads. Not recommended by the manufacturer, but I have gone up as high as 120 pounds. Wear ear protection in case it blows.

[pehayes]

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTaSvS0yNWI

 

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[yogidozer]

1) make sure the tire is warm if you are in a cold climate
2) make sure there are no casting nubs folded under at the tire rim interface (can cause leaks)
3) If you cant get to initially seat, try a rope or strap around the circumference and tighten
4) I have used tons of air to seat beads. Not recommended by the manufacturer, but I have gone up as high as 120 pounds. Wear ear protection in case it blows.

All good suggestions.  I use a rope, tie it as tight as you can, then slip a tire iron (or anything strong) then twist it to compress the center of the tire.
And yes, I use a lot of air pressure if needed.

[troyhamilton]

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTaSvS0yNWI

 

Patrick Hayes
I Have done many tractor and 18 wheeler tires! once we were doing a huge tractor tire. our bosses wife called the shop into eat lunch. someone forgot to remove the quick connect chuck! after 15 minutes the huge tractor tire exploded, part blew out a wall and the rim went thru the roof. someone got fired. im just glad no one got hurt maimed or killed
Fremont CA

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I always have a hard time getting tires to seat on the Guzzi cast wheels. The only thing that works for me is liberal application of Windex (the genuine stuff, not store brand) and lots of pressure.

[Sheepdog]

Most tires seat at about 50 psi, but I had a Michelin front that behaved as you have described. I removed the valve core and held on to 90 psi. When it seated, it sounded like a .22 going off.

[ratguzzi]

Many times I need to go 80-90 psi to seat. May freak out a few but it works and I'm not messing around. Done hundreds of motorcycle tires.
JB

[bigbikerrick]

I have had good luck using "Pam" spray as the lubricant.A friend who has mounted his own tires for years told me about it, and it works! I dont think I have ever had to use over 60 psi to get a bead to seat, but would use a bit more if I had to. My wife usually has a couple in the kitchen that I can borrow.
Rick.

[wirespokes]

What do you use for tire lube? I used to use a little dish soap in a cup of water, but finally broke down and got the real deal. A gallon bucket of tire lube was only about fifteen bucks. I should have gotten it years ago! As it is, it'll probably last me about four life times.

With that stuff, there have been times the tire seated with a hand pump. A lot of times it only takes 30 lbs pressure.

Did you clean the rim well? No sticky black stuff stuck to it anymore? Sometimes it's even a good idea to polish the rim so the tire can slide easier.

I haven't done this, but having a way to fill the tire without the valve core installed pops it on very quickly.

[Robert]

2) make sure there are no casting nubs folded under at the tire rim interface (can cause leaks)

I had a Michelin car tire that would not seal at the rim.  There was a small molding line (radially oriented) in the tire bead area.

The cure was to put some tire glue in that area before seating.

So whenever I had to take that tire in for a flat, I told the 'technician' to put some glue there.  They blew me off ...

Then the tire leaked at the bead till they did as I suggested.

[Diploman]

Some cogent and hopefully helpful tactics to contemplate and try.  Thanks, guys. 

I have some good ratchet straps that might be worth a go.  And I definitely think it worthwhile to get some proper tire mounting lube - I've been using both Windex and dish soap.

I recently received a new chainsaw helmet with ear muffs and face shield - this will be just the thing to wear if I decide to go for big pressure.  Will report further developments.

Ciao, Will

[Lannis]

Only thing I'd say is that I'm a bit surprised that some folks use "tire lube" that isn't really tire lube, is sub-optimal for the job, and/or can leave moisture behind that can corrode and oxidize.

A lifetime supply of the right stuff (P80 or RuGlide) costs about the same as a bucket of chicken legs, works first time every time, and doesn't leave problems behind for the next guy .... ?

Lannis

[John A]

I have been useing GoJo type hand cleaner.  It doesn't hurt the rubber and is more slippery than puppy snot. I haven't found corrosion on the rim from it.  If you try it, I think you'll like it.

[Zinfan]

I'm betting the rear wheel on my Stelvio is heavier than what you are dealing with but just in case it might help, I couldn't get a tire to seat even using lots of lube and ratchet straps but when I held the wheel in the air so that it wasn't putting any pressure on the tire the tire seated right away without straps (still had lots of lube though).  I could feel the tire moving around on the rim as I held the rim up but it worked just fine once I applied air to the valve.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Only thing I'd say is that I'm a bit surprised that some folks use "tire lube" that isn't really tire lube, is sub-optimal for the job, and/or can leave moisture behind that can corrode and oxidize.

A lifetime supply of the right stuff (P80 or RuGlide) costs about the same as a bucket of chicken legs, works first time every time, and doesn't leave problems behind for the next guy .... ?

Lannis

I use RuGlyde when mounting tires on everything but the cast Guzzi wheels. Tried it in the past and even with crazy high pressure, the bead still refused to seat. Spray on Windex, not as crazy high pressure and it does. As Chuck in Indiana says <shrug>.