V7 Running in speed

[Kiwi_Roy]

I scanned through the owners manual but I can't find the recommended run in speed, can someone enlighten me please.
Thanks
Roy

[JACoH]

Just ride it, don't over-rev (over 6000), don't lug it (below 3500), vary your speeds, shift through the gears, don't keep it a sustained single speed.

[twowheeladdict]

Constantly vary your engine speed, and allow for engine braking.  Do the bikes with a tach come with a shift reminder flashing light?  My Carbon flashed at something like 4200 RPMs.

[Siamese]

I just finished breaking in my V7III Special, and found the break-in procedure in the Guzzi manual.  Until you've reached 1,500km (932 miles) "avoid" revving over 4,500 rpm.  The flashing light can be set to the rpm of your choice.  Mine came from the dealer set at 4,500.  Manual also said to vary engine speed. 

4,500 rpm, but fortunately, the V7III does an indicated 70mph at 4000 rpm, and the power band offers plenty of oomph under 4,500 rpm, so you aren't really very restricted. 

Because the manual said "avoid" higher rpm, after around 300+ miles, I gave it the occasional run up to 6,000rpm.  Not a lot...probably once or twice per 100 miles. 

I just passed 932 miles, so I'm ready to change my oils and adjust valves.  Once I reached 932 miles, I had fun running the engine up to redline a few times.  Confirmed that the power curve is fairly linear from 2,500 rpm to redline, and that the V7III has as much power as I want.  Like my bike.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Thankyou gentlemen that's given me a lot to go on

Update
As Siamese says the shift light flashes at you if you go over 4500 and the bike has stacks of power below that
A few times it bumped over 5000 but using the light made it easy.
We had a great day out in the valley and clocked up about 300 km, the bike performed flawlessly and easily kept up with a Supertenere and 1000cc Kawasaki LTD

[Rough Edge racing]

 Beyond the first 50 miles to make sure everything stays bolted together, what is the purpose of a long break in with modern machines?

[twowheeladdict]

Beyond the first 50 miles to make sure everything stays bolted together, what is the purpose of a long break in with modern machines?

Here goes another Oil and countersteering thread.   

My research has showed multiple theories.

One.  If something were to have an infant failure, better to have it fail at lower RPMs and potentially lower speeds.

Two.  Lower RPMs usually goes along with more conservative riding which gives the rider more time to get to know the machine and build muscle memory of where the controls and other features are so when riding more aggressively the rider doesn't have to take attention away from the road to use the features of the bike.

Three. The break in period is also for bedding in the brakes, scrubbing in the tires, etc.

Four.  Riding conservatively means less chance of breaking something before the warranty period expires.

[oldbike54]

 Put a load on the engine to seat the rings , and don't race any liter bikes , you'll be fine .

 Dusty

[Rough Edge racing]

Here goes another Oil and countersteering thread.   

My research has showed multiple theories.

One.  If something were to have an infant failure, better to have it fail at lower RPMs and potentially lower speeds.

Two.  Lower RPMs usually goes along with more conservative riding which gives the rider more time to get to know the machine and build muscle memory of where the controls and other features are so when riding more aggressively the rider doesn't have to take attention away from the road to use the features of the bike.

Three. The break in period is also for bedding in the brakes, scrubbing in the tires, etc.

Four.  Riding conservatively means less chance of breaking something before the warranty period expires.

  I agree with your list....especially #4.....  And what Dusty says....And my own , never ever beat on an engine until the oil has warmed up...But I never understood the reason to restrict RPM and engine loading for a long period of time...

[Old Jock]

There was guy on the old Ducati UK forum, now extinct, both the poster and the forum and no connection to the current UK Ducati forum

I never really took to this chap at all, always "knew" more than everybody else and was pretty quick to trash people.

Anyway, he insisted that all this break in stuff was utter tosh and during a long thread said so, repeatedly and loudly. He proudly procalimed to all and sundry how he ran his bike in by thrashing it within an inch of it's life the moment he got it and that was the way to properly bed in an engine (there is stuff like that still out there)

Then the engine went BANG!!!! big time and he got onto Ducati for a warranty claim.

I never knew the final outcome as he went vey quiet after the blow up. However it did come out that Ducati did a quick search of the forums and were none too happy seeing all his posts boasting that he had run his bike in by thrashing the living daylight out of it the minute he left the dealers

I do not want to start a break in thread believe me I had enough with the countersteering, last time I do anything like that

John

John

[kingoffleece]

CycleWorld recently did a test on two of the same motors.  One broken in "soft" and the other not.  No discernible difference.
Breaking in a new motor has a ton to due with seating the rings.  Cylinder pressure accomplishes this.  Drive accordingly.

[Rough Edge racing]

 In the past cast iron rings were used on many engines ..They were not prelapped to insure they fit square to the cylinder wall...A lot of piston heat is transferred through the rings, especially the top ring...These type rings need some time to seat fully, can be 100 miles or longer...If the engine is running at high load, the heat may not be transferred by the rings, the piston skirts may overheat, expand, and cause galling or even seizure...
  For the most part ,modern engines use better rings materials and machining so it's not an issue...I have no idea what Guzzi uses so I suppose to not race any one liter bikes, as Dusty says, for a 100 miles or so...

[Rich A]

My very limited understanding is that heat cycles are important when breaking in an engine. That said, I have no idea what an ideal heat cycle is.

Rich

[malik]

When I bought the V7C, I rode it home from the dealer & dropped the engine oil at 39km. It was grey & muddy, with filings on the magnets. New oil & filter & went on from there. I heard they may have fired it up at the factory, but then it sat while transported from Mandello to me. Just saying.

[twowheeladdict]

CycleWorld recently did a test on two of the same motors.  One broken in "soft" and the other not.  No discernible difference.
Breaking in a new motor has a ton to due with seating the rings.  Cylinder pressure accomplishes this.  Drive accordingly.

It was a little flawed though because they didn't start with 2 new off the shelf engines. 

They also have no data on where either will be at 10,000 miles 50,000 miles etc.  Considering that most part with a bike long before it will ever see the kind of miles that matter it really doesn't make much of a difference. 

[Muzz]

Put a load on the engine to seat the rings , and don't race any liter bikes , you'll be fine .

 Dusty

This was critical on the early Brevas Roy.  If they weren't seated correctly some used to toss the oil out; fatal with only 1.8 lits to start off with.

I ran mine in up and down the Port Hills here in Christchurch with my wife on the back.  Never lug it and slowly increase the upper revs with mileage.  I started hammering it after about 1000 miles, but the bike continued to loosed up over about the next 5000 miles.

It does not burn any oil and has never puked it.  One maybe two top-ups in between oil changes.

[Rough Edge racing]

This was critical on the early Brevas Roy.  If they weren't seated correctly some used to toss the oil out; fatal with only 1.8 lits to start off with.

I ran mine in up and down the Port Hills here in Christchurch with my wife on the back.  Never lug it and slowly increase the upper revs with mileage.  I started hammering it after about 1000 miles, but the bike continued to loosed up over about the next 5000 miles.

It does not burn any oil and has never puked it.  One maybe two top-ups in between oil changes.

  Do you have an opinion on what exactly  "is loosening up"?..

[kingoffleece]

Every study like CycleWorld's will be a bit flawed.  Almost impossible to account for every variable and then there is manufacturing tolerance and a whole host of other variables.  Just like everyone's empirical experience is different.

[Muzz]

  Do you have an opinion on what exactly  "is loosening up"?..

Spun more freely, got up in the revs slightly quicker, and gearbox changed slicker.

[Kev m]

Spun more freely, got up in the revs slightly quicker, and gearbox changed slicker.

I believe he is asking do you have a theory about what MECHANICALLY is "loosening" up.

Let me chime in.

I'm pretty damn skeptical about the "break-in" necessities of a motor manufactured with modern materiels and methods. I think, like most modern automobiles the motors are basically set to go out of the box. Maybe the first few uses and hundred or so miles matters with ring wear in. So yeah probably best to avoid some extremes.

That said, as skeptical as I am when we compared Jay's 10k+ miles V7C with my 1-2k mile V7 Stone I felt a definite difference in the willingness to rev and role that I now think is gone on the V7S.

I kinda wonder if I'm feeling it again on the V7IIID.

Theory? I dunno.

1. Could be me (in my head). Just that lack of familiarity with a new bike (though that wouldn't explain the V7C vs V7S back-to-back impression).

2. The sum of all parts - wheel bearings, seals, joints, wheels, hell breather orifices, whatever might possibly be a cause of friction or restriction combines for a feel of reluctance or resistance.

I dunno, probably a little of both.

I can say I haven't shared those same impressions with other brands like Harley or BMW.

But I have to admit I really think my V7S feels different (better) now and looser, freer, or somehow more willing to rev and run at higher speeds "SEEMS" to true.

[Muzz]

Sounds good to me Kev.

Many moons ago someone posted a link to a guys website who used to prepare and race (I think) Honda 4s. He had untold pictures of pistons that had been "run in".  All showed signs of blow-by.  He also had a set of pistons that he had bedded in based on his theory that loading the piston caused the rings to be forced against the bores using the increased gas pressures.  This bedding in happened over a period of just a few minutes running.

He then had a picture of said pistons after a season of racing, and these showed absolutely no sign of blow-by.

I used this theory by running in going up hills with my wife on the back, not lugging the engine but certainly working it.

[wirespokes]

I agree with you Muzz - and that's the way I break in rings also. After the first 30-mile run, they're all seated in. But breaking in a motorcycle, much less an engine, should take some time. All those different moving parts need a little time to get familiar with each other. Metal particles in the oil had to come from somewhere and they can't all have been left-over products of the manufacturing process. I'll bet most of it is parts rubbing together and smoothing the rough edges. And then there's the forks, transmission and final drive just to name the larger components. I don't figure the taking it easy part of the equation is for the rings, but everything else.

2WAddict - good point on rider familiarization with the machine!

[Rough Edge racing]

 There are no rough edges in a properly machined and assembled engine..New piston rings in a honed cylinder do have a lot of drag for the first 1/2 hour of running ..Bearing clearances and piston to wall clearances should be correct right out of the box. Any rubbing of engine rotating parts aside from the camshaft will result in galling..However, any gears may need some time get familiar with each other. New seals may have some drag...
   I do know that in some engines the piston rings may take 100 miles or more before they have full contact with the cylinder wall..The majority of piston head  heat is transferred to the cylinder walls by the rings, especially the top ring...If the engine is put under too much load for to long a period, the piston may heat excessively and seize...I have seen the results of this mostly on vintage British bike engines with their bores that tend to distort with load and heat...
  I don't know about bikes, but most or all new car engine cylinders are bored and honed with torque plates and some are heated to simulate operating temperatures..As Kev says, ready to go right out of the box....
  If you drop the sump or change the oil on any new engine and find metal debris that's a sign of poor factory or builder preparation..Or something is having a problem inside...

[kingoffleece]

As for loosening up, my V7 did not like anything under 4K in 5th (top) gear until about 5K on the tach.  Now with almost 11K it's very content at 3.8K all other variables the same, or as same as I can achieve.  Same test loop and all that.  Vibs throughout the range of revs are also precieved as less than when brand new.

[Rough Edge racing]

 Fleece, I have experienced the feel of an engine that can be a bit better after some miles....But , in my opinion,it's not coming from the crankshaft or pistons..
  The vintage Triumph race engine I build are run for a short time, like a few miles on the road.. Then the bike goes onto a chassis dyno for tuning. The engine is subjected to repeated full throttle ,full load runs for tuning and durability testing...Then onto the land speed track.where the engine is run wide open for 1-1/2 miles..Yearly tear downs show full ring contact, no wear on internal parts other than a few light scratches on the cylinder walls from not using air filters..and these old heaps when pushed to the limit flex and distort like you can't believe....When I first assemble the engine and rotating it for checking cam timing, there's quite a bit of drag caused by new rings...After running for only 10 minutes the drag is substantially less...
  Modern engines can be disassembled after 100K miles and all parts measure the same as new ...Of course with air cooled bike engines this might not be always true..

[kballowe]

When I was a young man (and dinosaurs roamed the earth) I worked in a motorcycle shop in Eastern North Carolina.

There was a military base approx 20 miles west of this dealer.  Customers would buy a brand-new motorcycle and then hit the highway.

Every now and then, we'd sell a bike and then get a call 30 minutes and 15 miles later, that the bike had simply "locked up".   So, let the bike cool down and then it would be just fine.  The theory was that the tolerances were so close and uneven heating, etc etc.

And then one day, a travelling salesman stopped in the shop, extolling the virtues of Marvel Mystery oil.  "Put two ounces in the tank of them new motorbikes before they go out the door, and THAT will never happen again"

We did.  And he was right.


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