How long should one wait for Guzzi to make warranty decisions

[benebob]

Since I simply get snarky comments that I have a bad additude (because I guess I should be thankful I have a useless bike sitting here) from people on this site and then moderators lock threads I am still waiting for an answer to what I feel is a pretty simple question.  How long would you expect to wait for Guzzi to make a decision on what they are doing for warranty for a bike that is not usable (and has less than 1000 miles)? 

[Perazzimx14]

I can’t with how long is a reasonable wait but I would expect the warranty to be extended for as many days as it’s in the shop.

Call weekly and document and don’t hold your breath for a quick decision from Piaggio

[twowheeladdict]

I have found that dealer support is key.  If they don't care and push, the manufacturer don't care. 

If your dealer isn't pushing Piaggio, then you should be pushing them both.  Squeaky wheel and all that sort of talk is very true. 

If I only had one bike to ride I would be pissed if it were down for a warranty claim at the start of most people's riding season.  Confrontation is your friend in these instances.

[oldbike54]

 Confrontation is never your friend . What will work is persistence , documentation , and the direct approach . When you lose your cool and start
yelling , even those folks who are willing and able to help will become unavailable . Yeah , getting all worked up and indignant works for about 15 minutes , being consistent and firm is a better long term approach .

 That is why the previous thread about this was locked , it wasn't accomplishing anything , and challenging that decision does nothing positive .

 Now , let's try to remain calm and solve this , are we clear ?

 Dusty

[John A]

When I was doing warrenty claims as part of being in charge of the service department at a motorcycle dealership, not Guzzi,  I would try very hard to get claims approved.  If the customer was polite but firm it was easier to be motivated to help. I could understand the customer was upset but if they had the attitude that I wasn't doing my job, sometimes being in the middle of a contentious process, I was a lot less motivated to help. Dusty has given correct advice.

[Sasquatch Jim]

Not more than three years is about expectable.

[pebra]

From personal experience: We're easily talking about months, and dealer support is vital.

I don't believe much in being confrontational. Leave that to a dealer with a good standing with Piaggio.

[twowheeladdict]

Confrontation is never your friend . What will work is persistence , documentation , and the direct approach . When you lose your cool and start
yelling , even those folks who are willing and able to help will become unavailable . Yeah , getting all worked up and indignant works for about 15 minutes , being consistent and firm is a better long term approach .

 That is why the previous thread about this was locked , it wasn't accomplishing anything , and challenging that decision does nothing positive .

 Now , let's try to remain calm and solve this , are we clear ?

 Dusty

I chose the wrong word there.  I meant to stick up for yourself.  Be your own advocate.  Be persistent. 

[OldMojo]

Coming from a former powersports service manager.

It's absolutely vital to have the dealership on your side - the service manager in particular. They are the ones who will go to bat for you with Piaggio. Direct any ire at Piaggio warranty - not the product and not the dealership. State your case. Elicit empathy at a minimum, sympathy if possible.

Remember, the dealership doesn't want to damage their relationship with Piaggio for your sake. They have to work with them long after you've gone on your way.

Manufacturers are often like insurance companies - they'll look for any reason to deny a claim because they're utterly paranoid of being taken advantage of  - by dealers and customers alike. Whether or not you think that's justified or rational, it's a fact.

If I had a good rapport with a customer and there was a legitimate grievance, I was happy to be a tenacious advocate on their behalf. If it was just someone who had a breakdown when they thought they shouldn't have? Well, life isn't always fair.

If someone starts throwing lawyer terms around, the conversation will get very quiet indeed.

[SemperVee]

 I was 1 month into waiting for Empire motorsports (Guzzi Dealer)  in Spokane to fix my smoking Norge with no answer forthcoming from Corp so they transferred the bike to Seattle and It was fixed there within the week by Misha and crew At Moto International.

[fotoguzzi]

Does your state have a lemon law? I would be looking for my money back if they can't put in on the road fast, it's a brand new bike, right?

[Darren Williams]

I've had three warranty claims with Guzzi. First was on my 1200 Sport with the dash failing. Bike was about a year old and dealer was 100 miles away. Emailed pics of the dash LED blanking out to Kinetic Playground in Tulsa (now out of business since Donnie retired). I was an intermediate failure so Donnie put in the claim and a couple months later he called and said to bring the bike in at my convenience for the new dash that was delivered to him.  Second on a Stelvio blowing out the exhaust gasket. Again took a pic of the remains and Donnie gave me one out of stock the next time I was by there. I had bought a Kawasaki part locally and already had it installed, so I wasn't in a hurry. Both were known issues.

The last one was this spring on my new Griso. Clutch master cylinder was slowly leaking pressure. A real pain in stop and go traffic where you need to hold the clutch and creep forward. First Guzzi asked new local dealer, Motiv Cycle Works, to flush it and see if that fixed it. Helped for a few rides then started leaking off again. Called dealer and about 5 or 6 weeks he got a new master cylinder from the factory and put it in a day later. Seems to work properly now.

Nothing happened real fast with getting parts from Italy, but decisions seemed to be made in a reasonable amount of time. Of course both dealers impressed me as good guys that really care about their customers.

[Huzo]

I’m new to this thread.
What has your bike done ?

[guzzisteve]

I thought I'd trow this out there, lots of Piaggio employees read these public forums. And it does make a difference in how the Tech Rep from your area works with your shop. I have 1st hand experience working with these same individuals. I have to say they do their job, jf you give them crap you will not get very much help. They know the problem & the fix. Every claim is a different. I retired right about same time there were 4-5 motor swaps at the shop here.
If you have crank end play and can't  adjust the clutch, they'll see it.

 

[Tusayan]

This and many similar stories have over time become an object lesson to me, and why I generally choose to pay less for a low mileage used bike that has no warranty, and select a bike that does not need a dealer.

Warranties are to me like paying extra for a problem, not a solution.  It is much less stress and hassle for me to deal with repairing a motorcycle than being firm but calm with people I'd rather not know, following up, elevating at the right moment, 'working with'  the manufacturer rep. and all the other Popular Psychology crappola that are part of what I do to make a living, but try to avoid when away from work.

I buy things with money and take them home directly after buying them, never to return. I don't buy weak promises that need to be extracted later from less than reputable organizations - which in 2019, in the era of the MBA, is virtually all of them.

[Lannis]

I buy things with money, and take them home directly after buying them, never to return. I don't buy weak promises that need to be extracted later from less than reputable organizations - which in 2019, in the era of the MBA, is virtually all of them.

Now that I've read it, that's a pretty good philosophy.   I've had very few good experiences with warranties.

My last new bike, I paid ahead on two items - One was "prepaid service" for the first 6 major services on the bike, which is a complex shim-under-bucket water-cooled triple.   This has been working out well, and if I keep the bike for 60,000+ miles (which I plan to do), it will have been a bargain.

The other was a "road damage warranty" for the tires, which proposes to pay for a new tire if one goes flat due to a road hazard.   I won't do that again, since the "uh, a few privisos, some quid-pro-quos" add up to a hassle that makes it almost impossible to get paid (as I've found out).

But your "buy it slightly used and forget about warranties" is a good one, especially since a bike with a few miles on it is less likely to puke up a surprise for you .... !!

Lannis

[coast range rider]

I also needed a warranty repair on my Guzzi with less than 1000 miles. The rest of my issue is off topic but it relates to buy slightly used and forget warranty.

Guzzi approved my warranty repair within 2 weeks, but dealership requires almost $200 extra from me to do the repair because Guzzi does not pay them enough for labor on this repair.
Apparently getting Guzzi to cover required cost of repair requires dealer or customer to "fight" with Guzzi to get proper warranty coverage.
I didn't purchase the bike from this dealer, and I did the break in service (930 miles) myself so dealer does not want to fight for me.

I suppose I sympathize with the dealer. I am their worst case customer; now they shouldn't have to lose money on my warranty repair. And dealership did nothing to create the bike's problem. It was caused by improper assembly at the manufacturer. Manufacturer is trying to save $200; that's more important to manufacturer than customer satisfaction on a defective bike with less than 1000 miles.

So the bike is really not the problem. The warranty is the problem. Yeah, I wish I got a used, out of warranty bike instead.

[twowheeladdict]

Now that I've read it, that's a pretty good philosophy.   I've had very few good experiences with warranties.

My last new bike, I paid ahead on two items - One was "prepaid service" for the first 6 major services on the bike, which is a complex shim-under-bucket water-cooled triple.   This has been working out well, and if I keep the bike for 60,000+ miles (which I plan to do), it will have been a bargain.

The other was a "road damage warranty" for the tires, which proposes to pay for a new tire if one goes flat due to a road hazard.   I won't do that again, since the "uh, a few privisos, some quid-pro-quos" add up to a hassle that makes it almost impossible to get paid (as I've found out).

But your "buy it slightly used and forget about warranties" is a good one, especially since a bike with a few miles on it is less likely to puke up a surprise for you .... !!

Lannis

When it is a cold sunny day I definitely miss the Trophy SE.  Best factory suspsended bike I ever owned.  But yeah, pulling all those plastics off to do anything was such a PITA. 

[s1120]

Coming from the new car world this is crazy..  Its normally right away, and some times a phone call to confirm. Worst case is a week to get a rep to look at it. I don't see why it would take more then a week or so. I mean, is it broke? yes...  Is there damage to the part not caused by part failure?.. Yes or no..  If its a gray area, we need a rep to look at it.. IMHO anything short of that is just falling down on the job...  Granted this is not FIXING the issue.....  labor, parts, skill etc can effect that greatly...  but you should know one way or the other on coverage pretty quickly. Again...  Im coming from the car world, and understand its a bigger pond... but still

[Darren Williams]

I never had to "get firm" or anything. Maybe not quick fast decision, but every time was professional.

I have to do warranty investigation as part of my job. I think I understand how the process works.

[old head]

I was without my bike for 6 or 7 weeks at about 5k miles.  The transmission ate a bearing or two.  I had brought it in for a couple other issues under warranty, dash, intermittent cranking, and weeping throttle body.

MPH in Houston took care of everything.  My only complaint is they couldn't loan me a bike to get back home as I was out of state.  Mike did get me to the bus depot, so it was good.

I would say it depends on the dealer, and what the issues are.  My impression was MPH wasn't happy about what happened, it shouldn't have happened, and I got the impression it was an assembly issue.  However, haven't had any issues with the tranny since so its all good.

Old Head

[OldMojo]

Guzzi approved my warranty repair within 2 weeks, but dealership requires almost $200 extra from me to do the repair because Guzzi does not pay them enough for labor on this repair.
Apparently getting Guzzi to cover required cost of repair requires dealer or customer to "fight" with Guzzi to get proper warranty coverage.
I didn't purchase the bike from this dealer, and I did the break in service (930 miles) myself so dealer does not want to fight for me.

Warranty work is a necessary evil, and it's truly a racket that pinches the dealer.

First of all, warranty repair work is paid at flat rate. There's a book that specifies how much shop time will be paid for a given job. These times are frequently unrealistic and based upon ideal conditions, with no consideration for cleaning, broken bolts, incidental wiring repairs, and all of the little stuff that is frequently but not always necessary. A complex repair may require "stacking" several separate operations in order to have any hope of approaching an accurate labor payout. A skilled service manager who "knows the book" may be able to do this, but the manufacturer certainly isn't going to remind him if he misses something. And if he screws up and "overstacks", he risks increased scrutiny of his claims at best, rejection at worst.

Furthermore, the manufacturer may or may not pay labor at the shop's quoted rate. This can depend on a lot of things, like whether or not the shop has the full complement of special (expensive) tools, been to all of the (expensive) training schools, purchases the requisite amount of parts and accessories, software packages, etc. If not, then warranty work may be paid at something less - maybe 75% of the shop's quoted labor rate.

Any parts used in a warranty repair are paid at dealer cost, so there's no profit at all there.

And to top it all off, "payment" frequently takes the form of a credit to the dealer's parts account. maybe accessories too, but seldom liquid funds.

Mind you, the situation described here wasn't with a small, struggling manufacturer of limited means. I won't name them but they're a successful, established player with a commanding market share in their powersports segment.

All that said, I never surcharged a customer for warranty work. If a unit bought somewhere else was brought to me at the height of the season that appeared to be a warranty black hole, I would either suggest they take it to their selling dealer or offer to take it on at a slower time.

[twowheeladdict]

Warranty work is a necessary evil, and it's truly a racket that pinches the dealer.

First of all, warranty repair work is paid at flat rate. There's a book that specifies how much shop time will be paid for a given job. These times are frequently unrealistic and based upon ideal conditions, with no consideration for cleaning, broken bolts, incidental wiring repairs, and all of the little stuff that is frequently but not always necessary. A complex repair may require "stacking" several separate operations in order to have any hope of approaching an accurate labor payout. A skilled service manager who "knows the book" may be able to do this, but the manufacturer certainly isn't going to remind him if he misses something. And if he screws up and "overstacks", he risks increased scrutiny of his claims at best, rejection at worst.

Furthermore, the manufacturer may or may not pay labor at the shop's quoted rate. This can depend on a lot of things, like whether or not the shop has the full complement of special (expensive) tools, been to all of the (expensive) training schools, purchases the requisite amount of parts and accessories, software packages, etc. If not, then warranty work may be paid at something less - maybe 75% of the shop's quoted labor rate.

Any parts used in a warranty repair are paid at dealer cost, so there's no profit at all there.

And to top it all off, "payment" frequently takes the form of a credit to the dealer's parts account. maybe accessories too, but seldom liquid funds.

Mind you, the situation described here wasn't with a small, struggling manufacturer of limited means. I won't name them but they're a successful, established player with a commanding market share in their powersports segment.

All that said, I never surcharged a customer for warranty work. If a unit bought somewhere else was brought to me at the height of the season that appeared to be a warranty black hole, I would either suggest they take it to their selling dealer or offer to take it on at a slower time.

...and this my friends is why the name "stealership" was coined.  The other dealer charging for a covered warranty, and this one not wanting to bother with the work if you didn't buy it there. 

Some of us relocate with our jobs.  Sometimes our selling dealer closed down. 

I've had dealers telling me that I had to leave a rideable bike with them while they ordered parts because I might not come back.  I told them that the bike was my transportation to work so unless they were getting me a loaner bike I was not leaving the bike.  They finally agreed to go ahead and order the parts. 

Car dealerships have come a long way but it seems like a lot of motorcycle dealerships are stuck back in the 50s with the games they play. 

When I bought my recent Royal Enfield I payed the MSRP of the bike.  No delivery, no assembly, no doc fee, nothing extra.  Some guys on the forums are reporting paying an additional $1500 in dealer profit to buy their bikes.  So, why can this dealer survive for 40 years selling bikes at a fair price while other dealers struggle when they add on so many fees?

[Ncdan]

Not knocking any brand or dealer, just an  assessment of these type of dealer issues.
I think, like many different types of business, smaller dealerships, with brands like Moto Guzzi, gets little to no backing from the manufacture. Therefore they must rely on their own financial position to continue doing business and simply cannot afford to do much warranty work, waiting for their money from the manufacturers to reimburse them. I realized its bad for the dealer as well as buyers that try and support the brand. This is especially difficult when the warranty work is on a bike they didn’t sale. In this situation I would go to the dealer with my hat in my hand and explain my  situation to the owner or service manager and acknowledge an understanding of  his situation and ask for help in anyway possible. Most of the time this comment sense works well in most situations because these folks love motorcycles or they wouldn’t be in that business. JMHO:)

[Darren Williams]

Ncdan, agree. When I had to take my Griso to a different dealer than I bought the bike from, I made sure I spent a little money with the new guy on some other stuff. Hoping he succeeds, and that is more up to us customers than we want to admit.

We complain about lack of dealers but are we supporting them with our dollars?

[twowheeladdict]

Ncdan, agree. When I had to take my Griso to a different dealer than I bought the bike from, I made sure I spent a little money with the new guy on some other stuff. Hoping he succeeds, and that is more up to us customers than we want to admit.

We complain about lack of dealers but are we supporting them with our dollars?

How a person runs their business has more to do with their success then us being careless with our money.  I know businesses there negotiations are involved have to have a certain percentage of dumb customers but when business A is trying to charge 20% in dealer profit, has everything overpriced to be competitive, and doesn't make sure their employees know the product and customer relations, then they deserve to go out of business. 

Dealers that advertise a great price and have all these hidden fees that you only find out about when you are in with the paperwork guys deserve to go out of business. 

The above examples are businesses that don't care about repeat customers and get a bad reputation.  Some dealers in my area will never sell me a new bike.  I might buy a used one from them if they don't try and tell me they went through the bike to make it safe and the brake fluid is rootbeer colored, which I have seen.

It is great to support a good dealer.  Stupid to support a bad one.   

[blackcat]

I purchased my 03 Rosso Corsa from the long gone dealer in Wichita and when I had a warranty claim on the bike they were less than interested in helping me out, so I called MPH in Houston and after a few tries they got my claim approved. Shame they are no longer a dealer as they did the same thing for me on the new Norge I purchased from them in 07.

[coast range rider]

Ncdan, agree. When I had to take my Griso to a different dealer than I bought the bike from, I made sure I spent a little money with the new guy on some other stuff. Hoping he succeeds, and that is more up to us customers than we want to admit.

We complain about lack of dealers but are we supporting them with our dollars?

Exactly what I did.

I was honest about the circumstances of why I bought my bike where. I explained they were the closest Moto Guzzi dealer to where I lived and I planned on being a new long term customer. In retrospect, I should have been more dishonest with them about doing my own breakin maintenance at 930 miles. I could have said I bought the bike with that service already done or paid for. I also should have lied to them, instead of mentioning I purchased an Aegis 84 month extended warranty. The service manager told me that is an even bigger problem for them than the original factory warranty work. So they are going to ask me to supplement payment on that extended warranty work as well.

My bike purchase was new, old stock 2017 Stelvio, and this dealer had sold all 3 of theirs they got as old new stock with discount, did not have any more, and could no longer get that new old stock from Moto Guzzi, so at the time of my actual purchase, buying there was not even an option. I didn't make that clear to them unfortunately.

I spent $80 in their parts department, and let the service dept know about it. This was all before they decided their required labor time was going to be TWICE what Moto Guzzi allotted for this warranty work. I couldn't have been more respectful and empathetic to their situation when I was there.

Then the dealership decided to f*** me over. When I asked, the service manager said it was common for them to ask for customer to supplement payment for warranty work. No other dealership I spoke to about this scenario said they did that or heard of it being "common" anywhere else. Other dealerships I spoke to said they just do the work, sometimes take a loss on warranty labor, make money elsewhere, but try to take care of the customer, no matter where the bike as purchased.

The funny thing is right now I am torn between sympathy for the dealership, they need to make money, I know motorcycle shops are not gold mines like McDonalds franchises, and the other side, that the dealership is GREEDY, choosing less than $200 over taking care of a new, potential long term customer.

I can drive an extra half hour and get the warranty work done in the normal manner at a different Moto Guzzi dealer. I can never step foot inside the local dealership after I pick up my parts order that just came in. I can badmouth the name of the "greedy" local dealer all over the internet. But mostly I wish I had purchased a used bike without warranty.

[oldbike54]

 If no one ever purchases a *new* motorbike , why would the manufacturer bother building any new motorbikes ?

 Do your homework , easy enough to do , then if there is an issue make certain that you have documentation , and then attempt to remain calm . We have had this discussion before , Moto Guzzi is a very small company , and while Piaggio may own them now , they are still a boutique builder of motorbikes , it is unreasonable to expect Moto Guzzi to behave like Honda or the MoCo , and also slightly unrealistic to expect a small dealer to behave like a dealership that moves 1,000 units a year . We inhabit a world of cookie cutter products , there is a reason why someone chooses to buy a product as unusual as a Moto Guzzi . Like the person who moves to a very rural area to get away from the city and then complains because the small town nearby doesn't have all of the conveniences of the large town they escaped from , it seems a bit disingenuous at best .

 Dusty

[Bulldog9]

Depends on how long Italy takes to get back to your dealer, and how motivated your dealer is to work the issue for you.

I'm guessing from your tone and reference to a locked post this is the bike with the clutch/flywheel issue. If the bike is under warranty, and not messed with should be a no brainer.  Just gotta be patient. I'd have long trailered the bike to the dealer and left with them to sort out.