Author Topic: definitive bad night! (Read 3807 times)

kirby1923 · « **on:** April 27, 2019, 09:14:17 PM »

I don't usually watch youtube but I have had this one for a while and thought that maybe some of you folks would like to see what a bad night can be coming aboard with a aircraft problem.

Night traps are always a high stress situation.

I was cleaning house and found it so...

It involves an A-6 landing on a carrier with one main gear locked up.

This situation is tense. It's night, the deck is pitching and the A6 has only one main landing gear down (right main is stuck up). They've set up the barrier.

Two things to watch. The in-deck camera has cross hairs at approximately the glide slope and centerline. Watch how it goes up and down with the pitching deck. The A6 has dumped fuel and doesn't have many chances to try to land.

Second thing, if you watch from the beginning, is the incredible skill of the LSO (landing signal officer). On radio he's "Paddles" or they use his call sign, "Bug." "Atlas" is the marine A-6 pilot. The LSO stands on the flight deck and must decide if the position of the deck will allow the pilot to land or will rise up and kill him.

The LSO is talking to the pilot to get him ready in the beginning. The final action starts at 7:45 if you want to cut it short. When he hits the deck the LSO tells him "stay with it" meaning don't eject. He can't say the word "eject" because that may be all the pilot will hear.

This is a high level of professionalism from both the LSO and the pilot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRURB7FdsII

oldbike54 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2019, 09:21:32 PM »

Wholey Schmidt

Dusty

fotoguzzi · « **Reply #2 on:** April 27, 2019, 09:55:12 PM »

I'd call that a pretty god night.

80CX100 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2019, 02:47:36 AM »

Amazing, tks very much for sharing that and setting the scene, what a window into that world.

I read some of the links in the comments on the life of Bug Roach, quite a story.

Thank you, and all the others that serve; for laying it out there on our behalf, so the rest of us don't have to.

Much respect and gratitude

Kelly

kingoffleece · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2019, 06:27:13 AM »

Oh my

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2019, 08:15:42 AM »

Awesome. I can't imagine carrier landings. I've read that telemetry data shows that a carrier pilot's heart rate is higher than on the Apollo launches.

RinkRat II · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2019, 08:30:57 AM »

Simply amazing, the professionalism with all involved. Calm, cool and sucessful . Here's a Harrier landing on a carrier without nosegear, not as exciting, but the skill involved is amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhefke0Q9Y

Paul B

kirby1923 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2019, 08:36:11 AM »

Quote from: RinkRat II on April 28, 2019, 08:30:57 AM

Simply amazing, the professionalism with all involved. Calm, cool and sucessful . Here's a Harrier landing on a carrier without nosegear, not as exciting, but the skill involved is amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhefke0Q9Y

Paul B

Harrier, gulp...they scare me and I'm fearless!

We call them decibelus maximus.

:-)

kirby1923 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 28, 2019, 08:37:37 AM »

Quote from: Chuck in Indiana on April 28, 2019, 08:15:42 AM

Awesome. I can't imagine carrier landings. I've read that telemetry data shows that a carrier pilot's heart rate is higher than on the Apollo launches.

Amen, Goosebumps!!!

Glad I could quit that nonsesse before I wore my ticker out!!

:-)

fubar guzzi · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2019, 10:04:50 AM »

Good showing my friend,thank you

larrys · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2019, 12:01:42 PM »

Told to me by a Navy pilot. A landing that you can walk away from is a good landing. A landing that you can walk away from and the bird will fly again is a great landing!
Larry

Lannis · « **Reply #11 on:** April 28, 2019, 01:18:35 PM »

What amazed me is the conversational tone of the pilot to ATC interaction.

With commercial flights, the interaction seems to be made in some sort of fast thieves-patter, or rhyming slang, full of abbreviations, technical terms, and spoken at triple speed, so that a normal person can't understand it.

Even I could understand this. It was like one guy directing another how to back up into an alley ....

Lannis

Ncdan · « **Reply #12 on:** April 28, 2019, 02:24:27 PM »

Like trying to put a saddle on a trotting horse:(

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #13 on:** April 28, 2019, 08:45:59 PM »

Quote from: Ncdan on April 28, 2019, 02:24:27 PM

Like trying to put a saddle on a trotting horse:(

Yeah, but if the saddle slips you die..

oldbike54 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 28, 2019, 08:57:31 PM »

Probably just a legend , but maybe it has some connection to reality .

A team of USAF Para Rescue troops went in after a Navy pilot who punched out over Laos . When asked what happened , the pilot said the A/C was just fine , but he had a premonition that he had exceeded his number of successful carrier landings after take off , decided to just punch out and hope the PJ's would find him

Dusty

Lannis · « **Reply #15 on:** April 28, 2019, 09:42:44 PM »

Quote from: larrys on April 28, 2019, 12:01:42 PM

Told to me by a Navy pilot. A landing that you can walk away from is a good landing. A landing that you can walk away from and the bird will fly again is a great landing!
Larry

"Told to me by a Navy pilot .... " Uh oh!!

Told to ME by a Navy pilot was his experience in the right seat of a C2. They were coming in to land at an Air Force base, and of course were constantly razzing the AF pilots for having such long cushy runways on which to land. They set up their approach .. "Flaps 10, engines 1/3".

"Hey, maybe Flaps 20, engines 20%" and then "Full flaps, engines idle!" and then "Reverse props NOW, full braking!" as they nosed to a halt right at the end of the pavement. As they taxied in, he commented ..

"These damn Air Force strips. They build the stupid things 300 feet long and 3 miles wide ...."

Aaron D. · « **Reply #16 on:** April 29, 2019, 06:05:08 AM »

Quote from: Lannis on April 28, 2019, 09:42:44 PM

"Told to me by a Navy pilot .... " Uh oh!!

Told to ME by a Navy pilot was his experience in the right seat of a C2. They were coming in to land at an Air Force base, and of course were constantly razzing the AF pilots for having such long cushy runways on which to land. They set up their approach .. "Flaps 10, engines 1/3".

"Hey, maybe Flaps 20, engines 20%" and then "Full flaps, engines idle!" and then "Reverse props NOW, full braking!" as they nosed to a halt right at the end of the pavement. As they taxied in, he commented ..

"These damn Air Force strips. They build the stupid things 300 feet long and 3 miles wide ...."

OK, that was funny.

lucian · « **Reply #17 on:** April 29, 2019, 06:41:43 AM »

Thanks for that video. My dad flew f6f hellcats from a carrier. He spoke occasionally of the importance of his signal officer and how hard it was to anticipate the amount of pitch and roll of the flight deck in rough seas. He always gave all the credit to all the supportive roles involved in keeping him safe.

kirby1923 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 29, 2019, 08:29:01 AM »

Hellcat, that was the real backbone of the WWII carrier war!

The LSO (landing signal officer) is ESSENTIAL to carrier ops. Really can't conduct safe ops w/o out the LSO.

:-)

kirby1923 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 29, 2019, 08:31:13 AM »

Quote from: oldbike54 on April 28, 2019, 08:57:31 PM

Probably just a legend , but maybe it has some connection to reality .

A team of USAF Para Rescue troops went in after a Navy pilot who punched out over Laos . When asked what happened , the pilot said the A/C was just fine , but he had a premonition that he had exceeded his number of successful carrier landings after take off , decided to just punch out and hope the PJ's would find him

Dusty

Ha! that's a good one.

All jokes aside ejecting from an aircraft is a violent and dynamic caper.

Very dangerous, allot of things can go wrong and end your day. It is meant as a last ditch effort to save you from death. Nobody would do it except as a reflex for survival.

:-)

Lannis · « **Reply #20 on:** April 29, 2019, 11:29:59 AM »

Quote from: kirby1923 on April 29, 2019, 08:31:13 AM

Ha! that's a good one.

All jokes aside ejecting from an aircraft is a violent and dynamic caper.

Very dangerous, allot of things can go wrong and end your day. It is meant as a last ditch effort to save you from death. Nobody would do it except as a reflex for survival.

:-)

That probably explains why the pilot and the aircraft carrier commander both decided to crash the damaged plane on the deck of the carrier with only two wheels, knowing that there was a non-zero chance that the pilot could be killed and the aircraft carrier damaged.

The alternative would be to bring the guard destroyers and helos in close, fly low and slow in the A6, and eject into the ocean and get picked up. The old A6 would have been a write-off anyway. But as you say, ejection has more things that can go fatally wrong than a crash into a barrier might ....

Lannis

kirby1923 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 29, 2019, 11:57:07 AM »

Yes and ejecting in open sea at night is..well the most desperate of options.

Chances of a recovery under those conditions is about 0.

:-)

smdl · « **Reply #22 on:** April 30, 2019, 11:57:59 PM »

Really enjoyed that, thanks!

For those who have an interest, one of my favorite books of all time is Feet Wet by Rear Admiral Paul Gillchrist USN (Ret). Equal parts exciting, humorous, tragic and terrifying. It's arranged anecdotally, so makes for a nice, easy read as time allows.

Highly recommended.

Cheers,
Shaun

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Author Topic: definitive bad night! (Read 3807 times)

oldbike54

oldbike54