Took the solar plunge

[Gliderjohn]

Going to have an 8KW solar system installed next month. After tax credit, even if our power company never raised the rates it will pay for itself in just over 13 years based on our current usage. The panels have a 25 yr warranty and should produce 90+ of rated power even after 20 years. The panels will be mounted on my shed roof, not the house. Guess time will tell for sure but seems like a good idea.
GliderJohn

[Tom in VA]

Nice!  Have been contemplating install also, just not sure if it is in our $$ best interest.

[guzzisteve]

I think using a starter/generator on your Guzzi is a better idea.

[oldbike54]

 Was just thinking about our conversation re your doing this , sure seems like a great idea .

 Dusty

[stubbie]

One of the best things I've done to my place 5KW system and an electric heat pump water system. Was paying $420 a quarter now ranges from $90 summer to about $130 winter and because I'm not using gas to heat my water my gas bill was $400 a quarter and is now about $175 in winter and $45 in summer.

[alanp]

Congrats!  I am about to double the size of mine.  New panels are much more efficient with better life span.  If you plan to stay put, it is a good investment. 

[twhitaker]

My brother got one several years ago. Spends more time waiting for $$$ repairs than generating. His widow wants it gone.

[oldbike54]

My brother got one several years ago. Spends more time waiting for $$$ repairs than generating. His widow wants it gone.

 Like many technologies , in its infancy there were teething problems , the new stuff is reliable . Ever own a car built in 1950 that was twenty years old and had 80K miles on the clock , yeah , worn smooth out . Now a car built in 1999 with 160K will be fine if it has been maintained .

 Dusty

[twhitaker]

But the system is only 3 years old!

[Gliderjohn]

If it is only a three year old system it should be completely covered by warranty. Poor installation?
GliderJohn

[elvisboy77]

I built a 200 watt system, expandable to 500 for less than $300.  Not high powered but not high priced either.  I just can't get my head around a 10+ year payback on an expensive system.  I am glad folks are doing it however!

[Groover]

Are you able to cut off from the power company completely, or do you still need to keep basic service?

[oldbike54]

But the system is only 3 years old!

 

If it is only a three year old system it should be completely covered by warranty. Poor installation?
GliderJohn

 Yep , or maybe it was a just a bargain job . Seriously , like so many things , there are folks who know how to properly install something , then there are those who don't but are hoping it will work long enough for the check to clear .

 New tech seems to be a fuzzy area in this country , like tankless water heaters . They have been around for years , are proven to be reliable and save money , and yet we act like they are some kind of impossible tech that doesn't work , when all they are is a burner section with a heat exchanger in the form of some copper tubing 

 Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

like tankless water heaters .

I've had one in the shop/hanger for over 20 years. It's just a flow switch and a cal rod inline to the faucet.

[oldbike54]

I've had one in the shop/hanger for over 20 years. It's just a flow switch and a cal rod inline to the faucet.

 Yep , and no fiberglass tank that develops a leak in 10 years . There are 3 that we installed 15 years ago that have been basically trouble free , then again we knew how to properly install them . The newer ones are even better .

 Dusty

[Gliderjohn]

From Groover:

Are you able to cut off from the power company completely, or do you still need to keep basic service?

No. This size system does not cover all my usage and I will not have a battery storage system. Just reduce my electric bill by about 60% we hope.
GliderJohn

[alanp]

My brother got one several years ago. Spends more time waiting for $$$ repairs than generating. His widow wants it gone.

There is something going on there.  Poor installation I suspect.  Solar systems are almost completely trouble free.  I've had one for 8 years and all it does is produce electricity. Zero issues.   

[Testarossa]

There is something going on there.  Poor installation I suspect.  Solar systems are almost completely trouble free.  I've had one for 8 years and all it does is produce electricity. Zero issues.   

 

This.

I put in a smaller system -- 2.6 kw -- and it's bulletproof. Offsets about 80% of our bill and could cover 100% if Gail ever turned off the computer and TV box. Of course we heat and cook with gas.

The thermal (water-heating) systems are much more efficient (95% vs 18%) but much more complex and require regular maintenance -- they have control systems, antifreeze, valves, sometimes pumps, and if installed on the roof a leak will wreck the drywall beneath. Maybe that's what the brother put in?

[Rebochi]

   I built a 1.8 KW non distributed system at my house. It powers TV, Computers, interior lights, shop and patios. At current power rates it cuts 50 bucks off monthly bill. Cost for materials was 6 thousand plus what ever my labor is worth. The cost was out of pocket, no taxpayer subsidy. The power company replaced my meter a couple of months after I turned in on then replaced the replacement meter after a couple more months.
  Now that I have some experience with this I could build another system for a grand or two less.
Energy conservation is a lot cheaper than production. You will get a better return on your dollar with insulation , modern windows , Upgraded lighting, modern heating and cooling and landscaping than you will with solar panels.

[drw916]

Lots of technology out there.  I just replaced my 20 year old, very inefficient water heater with a new heat pump/hybrid system.  They say it will reduce my water heating costs by over 70% based on how bad my old one was.  About a 4 year payback over the price of a high end, non heat pump, water heater.  Haven't seen my first bill yet, but hope to see big savings

[Lannis]

Lots of technology out there.  I just replaced my 20 year old, very inefficient water heater with a new heat pump/hybrid system.  They say it will reduce my water heating costs by over 70% based on how bad my old one was.  About a 4 year payback over the price of a high end, non heat pump, water heater.  Haven't seen my first bill yet, but hope to see big savings

Our electric bill is still pretty low.   We have heat pumps for heating and cooling, but use wood and gas to make sure that the "resistance strips" don't ever come on.

One clever thing that the electric co-op does is to take control of our water heater.   During times of peak usage, rather than buy expensive power from elsewhere, they remotely (via modulation of the electric current) turn off the water heaters in the houses that have volunteered for it.   Since this is generally during times when we're not using much hot water, and with a 3 year old well-insulated tank, we never even notice.

Solar would have to be a lot more developed and reliable than it is now for me to make the investment that probably wouldn't pay off in my lifetime .... I'll keep on looking for ways to conserve what I got ....

Lannis

[oldbike54]

   I built a 1.8 KW non distributed system at my house. It powers TV, Computers, interior lights, shop and patios. At current power rates it cuts 50 bucks off monthly bill. Cost for materials was 6 thousand plus what ever my labor is worth. The cost was out of pocket, no taxpayer subsidy. The power company replaced my meter a couple of months after I turned in on then replaced the replacement meter after a couple more months.
  Now that I have some experience with this I could build another system for a grand or two less.
Energy conservation is a lot cheaper than production. You will get a better return on your dollar with insulation , modern windows , Upgraded lighting, modern heating and cooling and landscaping than you will with solar panels.

 That is true in a dry climate like Tuscon . In a humid environment where it doesn't cool down as much at night , and to be comfortable you need to control humidity , it requires some form of moisture removal , which means refrigerated air . Yes , insulation  helps , even here in NE Oklahoma where relative humidity levels average in the 70% range , no matter how much insulation you have , we need to get that down to 40% to be comfortable .

 Dusty

[larrys]

I manage a Building Department in a town of 22K souls. I sign 4 to 6 permits for PV systems every week. Systems are getting bigger as the panels become more powerful. They used to run about 200-250 watts per panel. Standard size today is 320-360 watts and I have seen 400 watt panels. Longevity has gotten way better, inverters have become more standardized, and I'm seeing more systems with battery banks. Leasing a system is the fool's game, best deal seems to be start with a lease and buy it out in two years.
I recently inspected a 16.5K system. The owner had designed and installed it himself. Two buildings, micro inverters. Said he learned all about PV systems on YouTube, and had shopped and bought everything online. With micro inverters, each panel has its own inverter so you have AC power coming off the roof into a combiner box. No need for a central inverter.
Larry

[Idontwantapickle]

I think using a starter/generator on your Guzzi is a better idea.

I tried that but no matter how long I left it in the sun I never got any power from it.

[LowRyter]

House is 25 years old. 

2 gas furnaces (both replaced once), gas oven (original) and cooktop (replaced once), gas dryer (replaced electric once), gas hot water (replaced once) and 2 electric air units (original) and two refrigerators (both replaced once). 

An elm tree is over my house, my neighbors have trees so that I can barely grow tomatoes.  No place for solar.  But southern window exposure means I get passive solar in Winter (after neighbors' tree lose leaves).  It actually has worked pretty well.

[Luap McKeever]

We've had our 17.6kw system for 2 years now. I built a spreadsheet to calculate savings, etc. Over the last 2 years, we are saving $275.44 on average per month in electric bills. We wanted a 72% offset system and it's running right at that. 72.9% actually. My goal is to add a couple 2000w turbines to help close the gap and shoot for 100% offset and a monthly credit from the power company. Some questions other ask that make me absolutely chuckle are:

How much did your system cost?  (depends on the size)
What is the payback?
What if the panels quit working? (Mine are covered under a 25 year production and damage warranty)

The payback question is my favorite because people are obviously overlooking a very important fact.  There is ZERO payback when you stay 100% grid. ZERO. You're only paying rent on your electricity. I hate renting anything. With solar panels, you are actually buying something. People also can't wrap their heads around the fact that no additional money will come out of their pocket unless they opt to pay off their systems early instead of stretching it out over the life of the loan.  I've taken the 30% rebate and applied it straight to the loan as well.

Here are some real world facts.  Our average electric bill was $380 per month. Since going to solar, it's averaging $60 per month. Throw in the solar payment of $230 per month and you can see that we're saving about $90 per month. Some people say "that's not worth it". Well, guess what that savings will be when I pay my system off in 4 more years and have a very low electric bill while everyone else is still paying out the wazooo...

Fact #2: Electric companies increase their rates every 2-3 years. Solar is constant...the price never goes up.

The only thing that sucks for us is the months of January and February when it's cold, cloudy, etc. Our solar only runs about a 40% offset, so it gets a little expensive those months when you have to pay the solar and electric. But, all in all, I'm very satisfied with our system.

[Lannis]

Here are some real world facts.  Our average electric bill was $380 per month.

In my real world, with a 3200 sq ft house, our electric bill is averaging $180 a month.   If mine were $380, I might consider alternatives, but as it is, the amortization of the upfront cost would outlast me, I'm afraid ....

Lannis

[Charles in Lake Charles]

Given my age and highest electric bill of $115 during the summer (gas heat), solar doesn't make sense.

[not-fishing]

In my real world, with a 3200 sq ft house, our electric bill is averaging $180 a month.   If mine were $380, I might consider alternatives, but as it is, the amortization of the upfront cost would outlast me, I'm afraid ....Lannis

Yeah, out here in Crazy California, I worked on a 8,000 sf DMV that the solar electric installed cost $750,000 and the State still needs to pay P G & E $150,000 for grid connection upgrades.  I figure the break even point on the investment is in the neighborhood of 300 years.  Of course the Governor got to Crow about the new building being Zero Net Energy.

A decade and a half ago I designed and built my own house.  Fluorescent lighting, 2x6 exterior walls, nice double paned solar windows, 3' roof eves, heavy on the insulation, geothermal heating and AC.  My power bills run $75 (winter) to $125 (summer) for the past many years.  Decent construction and good insulation payback fairly quickly.  Of course my house is a simple carpenter's house without all the "design elements" of the neighbors.

In California a smaller solar generator is what most people need because electricity bills are graduated fairly quickly and if you just cut the top off your power usage will save the most while investing the least.

Mark

[oldbike54]

 Solar and wind baby , solar and wind .

 Dusty