Author Topic: Horrible bike accident in NH.  (Read 3972 times)

Offline oldbike54

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2019, 09:09:40 PM »
 Chill fellas .

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Offline blackcat

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2019, 06:17:00 AM »
I have looked at a few newspaper reports regarding this accident and the comments sections have focused more on the helmet issue and the general attitude of the dangers of riding.  The fact that the trailer bowled these people over was hardly mentioned and if a row of cars with 20 inhabitants were traveling in the same place as the motorcyclists, there certainly would have been numerous deaths. And of course some ER doctor posts the typical donor cycle comment as if it was a positive for the supply of organs.

And we wonder why accidents involving motorcyclists hardly ever deliver long term penalties for the cause of the accidents.
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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2019, 07:03:31 AM »
Prayers to all affected by this horrific tragedy...
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Offline yogidozer

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #63 on: June 24, 2019, 07:26:28 AM »
I have looked at a few newspaper reports regarding this accident and the comments sections have focused more on the helmet issue and the general attitude of the dangers of riding.  The fact that the trailer bowled these people over was hardly mentioned and if a row of cars with 20 inhabitants were traveling in the same place as the motorcyclists, there certainly would have been numerous deaths. And of course some ER doctor posts the typical donor cycle comment as if it was a positive for the supply of organs.

And we wonder why accidents involving motorcyclists hardly ever deliver long term penalties for the cause of the accidents.
Couldn't agree more. I also seen the truck driver seems to be in the wind. Hope they are keeping an eye on international flights.
By the looks of the damage to the bikes, as well as the truck, helmets wouldn't have made a difference.
If they pulled his driver's license after his 5/11/19 DUI drugs/alcohol arrest, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

Am I biased? You bet, I'll side with the military, cops, and firemen or anyone else who puts their life on the line.

Offline Rick in WNY

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2019, 11:58:39 AM »
I firmly believe in "innocent until proven guilty" but folks... it's looking more and more like the riders were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. They happened to be where and when the guy driving the truck and trailer lost control. That pretty much just sucks.

We lash out in frustration, indignation, anger, and pain. When we see something like this, we all contemplate our own mortality. This is normal, and even healthy, but getting angry with each other will be counterproductive.

No, we need to stand in solidarity with those who just lost friends and family. We need to thank the God of our choice that we're still here. We need to ask for strength for those who survived, and for those who had to clean up this mess. The initial event is over, but for those involved, that was just the kickoff to a marathon of pain they have to endure.

So please, take it easy on each other here. This world is miserable enough without adding to it.

And if you can, say or do something nice for a local veteran, police officer, fireman, ambulance driver, EMT, etc...

Just because.
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Offline yogidozer

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2019, 12:08:51 PM »
I won't say I told you so, but you can say it.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/pickup-truck-driver-arrested-following-new-hampshire-highway-collision-that-left-7-motorcyclists-dead
Pickup truck driver arrested following New Hampshire highway collision that left 7 motorcyclists dead

Offline oldbike54

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2019, 12:33:19 PM »
I firmly believe in "innocent until proven guilty" but folks... it's looking more and more like the riders were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. They happened to be where and when the guy driving the truck and trailer lost control. That pretty much just sucks.

We lash out in frustration, indignation, anger, and pain. When we see something like this, we all contemplate our own mortality. This is normal, and even healthy, but getting angry with each other will be counterproductive.

No, we need to stand in solidarity with those who just lost friends and family. We need to thank the God of our choice that we're still here. We need to ask for strength for those who survived, and for those who had to clean up this mess. The initial event is over, but for those involved, that was just the kickoff to a marathon of pain they have to endure.
So please, take it easy on each other here. This world is miserable enough without adding to it.


And if you can, say or do something nice for a local veteran, police officer, fireman, ambulance driver, EMT, etc...

Just because.

 Worth repeating .

 Heck , just do something nice for anyone , you'll feel better , and they will also .
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #67 on: June 24, 2019, 01:08:48 PM »
I firmly believe in "innocent until proven guilty" but folks... it's looking more and more like the riders were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. They happened to be where and when the guy driving the truck and trailer lost control. That pretty much just sucks.



No need in being hard on anyone.   But also no need to pretend that this was just an unfortunate sort of thing in being in the "wrong place at the wrong time".

I could be "in the wrong place at the wrong time" when someone decides he needs drug money and shoots me in the head to take my wallet.  A woman could be "in the wrong place at the wrong time" when someone decides that she needs raping.

We don't take seriously enough the responsibility that someone takes on when they take control of a 7000 pound kinetic energy weapon, and then decides to type on the phone or drink or do drugs while he's doing it (or whatever the investigation decides).    It's not just "an accident", which is why the guy is being charged with "negligent homicide", same as if I closed my eyes in a stadium and started randomly shooting a pistol.

We don't want this sort of thing to become any more "normal" than it is now, which is why we act in a way (in addition to grieving for the dead) that will tend to make it less likely in future, for the sake of everyone.

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Offline tazio

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2019, 01:12:26 PM »
Lannis, as most always, well put.
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Offline yogidozer

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #69 on: June 24, 2019, 01:28:15 PM »
I'm sure when I posted this waay back at the beginning of this thread, y'all said BS, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
But now it comes out.
This young guy has a criminal history for theft/burglary as well. He doesn't care about what's right or wrong, life is all about him.
And what kind of company would hire someone to drive, especially a big truck, with that on their record.
I used to do background checks for the AC division of the PD. Things like this are not hard to find.
I hope the company is sued as well.
*** The Latest: Biker crash suspect had past drunk driving count ***
https://news.yahoo.com/latest-biker-crash-suspect-had-174351266.html
and then there's this....
Zhukovskyy could also face drug charges in Massachusetts. During his arrest Monday, state troopers “located in the defendant’s residence wax packets containing a residue suspected of being heroin,” said David Procopio, a State Police spokesman, via e-mail.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 03:03:46 PM by yogidozer »

Offline sib

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #70 on: June 24, 2019, 03:04:31 PM »
I won't say I told you so, but you can say it.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/pickup-truck-driver-arrested-following-new-hampshire-highway-collision-that-left-7-motorcyclists-dead
Pickup truck driver arrested following New Hampshire highway collision that left 7 motorcyclists dead

*** The Latest: Biker crash suspect had past drunk driving count ***
https://news.yahoo.com/latest-biker-crash-suspect-had-174351266.html


Now that I've read the info on a "real" news source, I'll believe it :smiley:
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 03:07:01 PM by sib »
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Offline Rick in WNY

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #71 on: June 24, 2019, 03:33:01 PM »
Lannis, the "wrong place at the wrong time" reference is a thinly veiled way of stating that while the riders may not have done everything perfect, I find it highly doubtful they will be found guilty of anything beyond being on that portion of that road at that time... and yes, that is exactly how I see my own wreck, now almost four years later. I did everything right... and nearly died anyway. I was just luckier than these people, no more, no less. The point being any of us can be going along, doing everything right, and someone else, outside our control, can really screw up our plans. We don't get to know about these things beforehand, and afterwards, well, it's too late...
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Offline Ncdan

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #72 on: June 24, 2019, 03:41:15 PM »
Lannis, the "wrong place at the wrong time" reference is a thinly veiled way of stating that while the riders may not have done everything perfect, I find it highly doubtful they will be found guilty of anything beyond being on that portion of that road at that time... and yes, that is exactly how I see my own wreck, now almost four years later. I did everything right... and nearly died anyway. I was just luckier than these people, no more, no less. The point being any of us can be going along, doing everything right, and someone else, outside our control, can really screw up our plans. We don't get to know about these things beforehand, and afterwards, well, it's too late...
You are right Rick, sometimes the phrase “Life is just a vapor, here one moment and gone the next” some of us here knows where that came from.

Offline Rick in WNY

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2019, 04:46:09 PM »
You are right Rick, sometimes the phrase “Life is just a vapor, here one moment and gone the next” some of us here knows where that came from.

If you're referring to a man by the name of James.... yes sir, I know that book well. A very practical man he was.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 04:46:50 PM by Rick in WNY »
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #74 on: June 24, 2019, 07:43:32 PM »
Lannis, the "wrong place at the wrong time" reference is a thinly veiled way of stating that while the riders may not have done everything perfect, I find it highly doubtful they will be found guilty of anything beyond being on that portion of that road at that time... and yes, that is exactly how I see my own wreck, now almost four years later. I did everything right... and nearly died anyway. I was just luckier than these people, no more, no less. The point being any of us can be going along, doing everything right, and someone else, outside our control, can really screw up our plans. We don't get to know about these things beforehand, and afterwards, well, it's too late...

Yes, I agree with that.   My response was really addressed to the truck driver.   It wasn't like the riders did anything wrong, but the truck driver was not like a meteorite coming out of the sky or a tree falling on the riders, or a deer leaping onto the riders from the bank next to the road ... he was (it seems) almost a career criminal that should not have been on the road, and whose decisions directly caused the deaths of 7 innocent people .... All of us who ride bikes expose ourselves to that type of person every day ....

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Offline John A

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #75 on: June 24, 2019, 08:01:03 PM »
When things go bad, they can go real bad real fast. We usually have one chance to do it right and if we can get through without hitting or being hit by anything , we can walk away if we're very lucky.
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Online wirespokes

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #76 on: June 24, 2019, 08:03:05 PM »
What a messy scene! I can understand everyone getting upset about it.

I tend to look at it this way: I am the cause of my survival. Freak accidents can happen like a lightning bolt out of the blue striking me dead, but generally, I've found it possible to be in command of my survival and future. We have a lot more control over what happens to us than most would have you believe. One thing that most people haven't a clue about is the importance of their connections. If someone close has hidden intentions against you, mistakes and accidents will happen. It doesn't seem logical this would be the case - if the 'friend' isn't actively physically harming you right now, how could they have caused it? But it does work that way. Having real supportive friends and not those who appear to be friends (while tearing you down) is important.

Secondly, any kind of drugs, even aspirin, shuts down the sixth sense - a spiritual awareness. A sort of 'knowing' that tells you to hold back for some reason, before the truck careens across your lane. Or you slow down for no reason and there's gravel in the next turn. It's a 'feeling' you get, premonitions, that sort of thing.  I've worked on cultivating that awareness my whole life, and frankly, I think riding motorcycles, or even life, would be kind of scary without it.

If I was hit by an out-of-control truck and trailer and killed, I'd know I messed up. Doesn't matter that I was in the right - because I'd be dead wrong.  My job is to survive, so dying would be a failure on my part. It doesn't matter that something exterior to me took me out, it was my responsibility to survive.

Have any of you read any of David Hough's books? He talks about most accidents being avoidable. There is usually a warning or signs something isn't right. It's knowing there could be a situation and watching for the earliest sign that evasive action might be needed. It requires constant alertness and the ability to act immediately.

It seems there must have been some sign the truck was out of control. Or did it happen so quickly there was absolutely no chance of evasion?

And yes, it is scary with crazies on the road with us. Many years ago I was told that something like 80% of the drivers were on some sort of meds, and now we've got phones and texting, both crazy distractions. I must be the effect of a Chinese curse:  "May you live in interesting times!".



« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 08:05:31 PM by oldbike54 »

Offline LongRanger

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #77 on: June 24, 2019, 08:22:37 PM »
One theory I've read, without substantiation, is that the riders were passing each other over the double-yellow and when the truck came upon them, the driver slammed on his brakes to avoid them, causing the truck to careen out of control, wiping them out. Pure speculation, but I suppose it's plausible.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 08:23:22 PM by LongRanger »
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Offline Darren Williams

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #78 on: June 25, 2019, 05:32:37 AM »
First, condolences to the family/friends of those killed and well wishes for the injured and survivors. Mental as well as physical healing.

As a fellow rider, I know we all strive to be better and safer riders while doing something that inherently dangerous and exhilarating at the same time. Life is to be lived to the fullest, not just endured. That said it occurs to me that when riding with someone, I have to concentrate on looking down the road past the bikes ahead for potential dangers, just like when riding alone or leading. Like has been said earlier, try to recognize the potential threats as early as possible to increase your chances of survival.

Also I have been down at high speed twice in the last 5 years due to deer encounters. Both times my helmet and gear took some serious abuse and there is a good chance I would not have survived either without that protection.
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Offline sib

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2019, 08:03:34 AM »
...I tend to look at it this way: I am the cause of my survival....If I was hit by an out-of-control truck and trailer and killed, I'd know I messed up....dying would be a failure on my part....It seems there must have been some sign the truck was out of control...yes, it is scary with crazies on the road with us....
I sure agree with the last part.
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Offline hauto

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #80 on: June 25, 2019, 08:22:11 AM »
My son is starting to ride on the street. I've tried to pass on what safe riding practices I've learned over the years. The one thing I told him" it doesn't mater who's fault it is,you lose"

Offline spmoto

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #81 on: June 25, 2019, 09:58:13 AM »
Any form of profiling is totally unacceptable, unnecessary and counterproductive.

Offline JohninVT

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #82 on: June 25, 2019, 10:26:15 AM »
What a messy scene! I can understand everyone getting upset about it.

I tend to look at it this way: I am the cause of my survival. Freak accidents can happen like a lightning bolt out of the blue striking me dead, but generally, I've found it possible to be in command of my survival and future. We have a lot more control over what happens to us than most would have you believe. One thing that most people haven't a clue about is the importance of their connections. If someone close has hidden intentions against you, mistakes and accidents will happen. It doesn't seem logical this would be the case - if the 'friend' isn't actively physically harming you right now, how could they have caused it? But it does work that way. Having real supportive friends and not those who appear to be friends (while tearing you down) is important.

Secondly, any kind of drugs, even aspirin, shuts down the sixth sense - a spiritual awareness. A sort of 'knowing' that tells you to hold back for some reason, before the truck careens across your lane. Or you slow down for no reason and there's gravel in the next turn. It's a 'feeling' you get, premonitions, that sort of thing.  I've worked on cultivating that awareness my whole life, and frankly, I think riding motorcycles, or even life, would be kind of scary without it.

If I was hit by an out-of-control truck and trailer and killed, I'd know I messed up. Doesn't matter that I was in the right - because I'd be dead wrong.  My job is to survive, so dying would be a failure on my part. It doesn't matter that something exterior to me took me out, it was my responsibility to survive.

Have any of you read any of David Hough's books? He talks about most accidents being avoidable. There is usually a warning or signs something isn't right. It's knowing there could be a situation and watching for the earliest sign that evasive action might be needed. It requires constant alertness and the ability to act immediately.

It seems there must have been some sign the truck was out of control. Or did it happen so quickly there was absolutely no chance of evasion?

And yes, it is scary with crazies on the road with us. Many years ago I was told that something like 80% of the drivers were on some sort of meds, and now we've got phones and texting, both crazy distractions. I must be the effect of a Chinese curse:  "May you live in interesting times!".

I honestly don't understand why some of you think you're Spider-man or ninjas.  The closing speed on the road is 100mph.  It's a 50mph zone.  The driver over-corrected, the truck and trailer jackknifed going 50mph and plowed directly through the group of riders.  It all happened in an instant.  The combined speed of the vehicles meant they were travelling towards each other at 150 feet per second.  It was a 20' long truck towing a 20' long trailer.  No one could have swerved to avoid it regardless of their ninja reflexes or spidey sense.  It covered two lanes and went right up a bank on the opposite side of the road.  All of us would be equally dead as these poor riders.     

To reiterate from my previous posts:

-You're not a ninja with Spider-man's sixth sense.  No one is.  It's not a Marvel comic book.  It's real life. 
-In this case, it wouldn't have mattered if it was a single rider or a group of 80, you'd be just as dead either way because the truck was too wide for a rider to swerve to avoid.
-The closing speed was 100mph.
-The vehicles were closing at 150 feet per second.  An average reaction time is .5 seconds.  We're all old, decrepit Moto Guzzi riders.  We don't react in .5 seconds.  Even if we did, there's still nothing we could have done.

Not all accidents are avoidable.  Two months ago an idiot in a Prius was texting and drove directly under the rear axle of one of our 20' box trucks.  Same kind of scenario.  50mph zone, driver wasn't paying attention and he just drove right under the truck.  There was nothing my driver could have done.       

Offline oldbike54

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #83 on: June 25, 2019, 10:36:52 AM »
 Wait , are you sure I'm not Spiderman , kinda looked like him before gravity took over  :laugh:

 Maybe we can stop attacking each other , this thread has been problematic for a couple of pages now , let's turn it down . Are we clear ?

 Dusty
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Offline roadscum

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #84 on: June 25, 2019, 10:40:29 AM »
I am sympathetic but this is one of many reasons why group rides should be avoided.
JB

Agreed, it can at time, lead to mob mentality.

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Offline yogidozer

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #85 on: June 25, 2019, 10:48:04 AM »
I honestly don't understand why some of you think you're Spider-man or ninjas.  The closing speed on the road is 100mph.  It's a 50mph zone.  The driver over-corrected, the truck and trailer jackknifed going 50mph and plowed directly through the group of riders.  It all happened in an instant.  The combined speed of the vehicles meant they were travelling towards each other at 150 feet per second.  It was a 20' long truck towing a 20' long trailer.  No one could have swerved to avoid it regardless of their ninja reflexes or spidey sense.  It covered two lanes and went right up a bank on the opposite side of the road.  All of us would be equally dead as these poor riders.     

To reiterate from my previous posts:

-You're not a ninja with Spider-man's sixth sense.  No one is.  It's not a Marvel comic book.  It's real life. 
-In this case, it wouldn't have mattered if it was a single rider or a group of 80, you'd be just as dead either way because the truck was too wide for a rider to swerve to avoid.
-The closing speed was 100mph.
-The vehicles were closing at 150 feet per second.  An average reaction time is .5 seconds.  We're all old, decrepit Moto Guzzi riders.  We don't react in .5 seconds.  Even if we did, there's still nothing we could have done.

Not all accidents are avoidable.  Two months ago an idiot in a Prius was texting and drove directly under the rear axle of one of our 20' box trucks.  Same kind of scenario.  50mph zone, driver wasn't paying attention and he just drove right under the truck.  There was nothing my driver could have done.     
Thank you for posting your common sense. Even at slower speeds, and by the looks of it, it was NOT, a flick of the trucks wheel leaves a split second to react.
In other words, impossable.
Another point these marine vet. heros were on a charity ride with their wives.
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She's rip your ear off!
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Offline kirby1923

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #86 on: June 25, 2019, 11:02:53 AM »
"Fate is the Hunter"

:-(
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #87 on: June 25, 2019, 11:13:11 AM »
"Fate is the Hunter"

:-(

Although in the book, the "Hunter" generally came in the form of unexpected weather, or an inability of the Douglas airliner designers to account for every one of millions of variables in keeping the control surfaces secure; although the book's opening, where an "outlaw" aircraft who had not filed a flight plan almost ended the story right there, was a case sort of like this one.

We're "tempting" fate in these situations where we allow (not to say encourage) dangerous drivers to be on the road, people who can kill dozens of others and who may be motivated to risk other people's lives to make money dishonestly.   We seem to be thinking of "unavoidable" to be the part when the truck is 10 feet from the bikes - making it "avoidable" should have started months or years ago.

But we won't.   You watch; nothing will change.

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Offline yogidozer

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #88 on: June 25, 2019, 11:17:40 AM »
Dusty's asking us to "turn it down" and it's his bat and ball, but this hits home for all those that ride.
Harley riders, and most riders in general are looked down on by so many.
I'm younger than the mountains, but older than most trees.
I've never had a problem with any make riders, often shared coffee, or asked, have been asked if everything was OK.
These guys were not doing anything shown to be stupid, Vets on a charity ride with their wives.
The criminal kid, with two previous arrests for DUI, among other things should never have been behind the wheel of a commercial vehicle,
or anything else.
The fact that he refused a field test, and disappeard for a couple days, and was found to have heroin in the home says it all.
Too often, a bike rider is blamed, or the MV driver gets minimum penalty.
Maybe this will help change peoples outlook.


Offline Lannis

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Re: Horrible bike accident in NH.
« Reply #89 on: June 25, 2019, 11:26:53 AM »
Dusty's asking us to "turn it down" ....

Although warnings are implied and never specific, I suspect that was because of someone commenting on the ethnicity of the truck driver, and guys commenting on the WG poster rather than the subject at hand.   Discussion of the subject without referring to funny names or the unknown parentage of another poster probably isn't an issue.

Lannis
When you're taking flak, it means you're over your target.

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