Author Topic: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project  (Read 11434 times)

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2019, 09:04:43 AM »
You could always have it straightened by Woody's: https://woodyswheelworks.com/pages/alloy-motorcycle-wheel-repair

Thanks for the suggestion.  I've used Woody's for my big enduro bike wheels with great success.  The cost of shipping from Canada can make this less attractive compared to new rims - I'll check out the shipping cost that way.
'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2019, 12:28:51 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion.  I've used Woody's for my big enduro bike wheels with great success.  The cost of shipping from Canada can make this less attractive compared to new rims - I'll check out the shipping cost that way.

New genuine Borranis can be very expensive. Buchanan's lists them for $315.
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
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Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2019, 03:41:55 PM »
Ouch - I saw that$$.  I got an inquiry with Woody's to see what they think.
'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2019, 10:31:47 PM »
Took apart the cush drive today.  I struggled to sort out how to remove the wheel bearings.  This Old Tractor to the rescue again (post by Charlie)!!  http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_tonti_wheel_assembly.html






I could not get the bearing carrier to move out of the cast hub with any amount of blows.  Probably needs some heat, not necessary to remove for the cleaning.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 08:59:24 AM by shiskowd »
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'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2019, 10:31:47 PM »

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2019, 07:45:42 AM »

I could not get the bearing carrier to move out of the cast hub with any amount of blows.  Probably needs some heat, not necessary to remove for the cleaning.



I never remove that. Heat and a press are both likely necessary.
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
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'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2019, 06:26:19 PM »
Stripped the wheels apart.  Had some difficulty with a few spokes on the front wheel that were seized into the hub.  A little heat helped things along.

I took the rear drive apart carefully noting the shims (only the thin paper gasket and a single shim).  Ring gear looks great, no discernible wear, bearing and surfaces look good.



I've done lots of fork rebuilds/re-valves on modern enduro bikes - these are dead simple in comparison.  The dampers look to be new(er) than the rest of the fork and they seem to offer consistent resistance through their stroke when in the proper orientation.  One fork had no oil in the fork tube chamber and the tube is marked up pretty bad if a few places - may not be able to buff it out.  Undecided about upgrading to FAC dampers...

The fork bottoms (legs) appear to be painted silver and rather poorly.  I'd assume this was done by a previous owner and the stock legs would be raw aluminum?

'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2019, 03:34:20 PM »
As the weather in Calgary was so nice today :cry: I decided to stay in the garage.



Among the parts that I purchased with the bike was a used Dyna III ignition and set of Dyna 3.3 ohm coils. I don't think it was ever installed on this bike, previous owner likely picked it up and never got around to installing it.  I wanted to test the integrity of the kit so I fashioned a test of sorts using a single spark plug, battery and a host of alligator clips.  Took a while to realize that I needed to ground the distributor to make it work (underside of the Dyna circuit board plate has traces to the mounting screws) but managed to get the spark plug to fire on both the red and green coil output circuits.

The stock coil draw about 2.8 amps with the 'ignition on' and slightly less when I spin the distributor to create a spark.  Comparatively, the Dyna coils draw 3.4 amps with ignition on and distributor resting which is close to the same ratio as the measured coil resistance (3.8 vs 3.0 ohms).  I've read that the supported coil resistance for the Dyna III is 5 ohms and that you can add a 2 ohm 50W power resistor in series with the 3 ohm coil.  Running both 3 ohm coils would consume over 80 watts, 5 ohms would be closer to 60 watts.  All theory of course, I'm months away from a running engine  :sad:




'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Online wirespokes

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2019, 04:54:11 PM »
My 87LM came to me with the 3ohm Dyna coils and a Dyna III ignition. It's been running perfectly for the last 20K since I got it.

Offline Fnq1000

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2019, 12:38:33 AM »
Hi
Good to see the 850T getting some love.

A suggestion for a new or good replacement front rim could be an enquire to Wolfgang Haerter. Top bloke to deal with and more than Laverda and in your backyard (relatively speaking) http://www.angelfire.com/biz/laverda/

Cheers
Jason

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2019, 12:15:15 AM »
I have a spare Borani rim just can’t recall if it’s a front or rear! Will let you know when I get back. Your making great progress and I am enjoying watching your work. Wolfgang might be able to help you he is a great guy and his stock of parts is something to see if you ever pass through Nakusp. Wolfgang stocks everything for Dellorto including complete new carbs and plenty of CEV lights, switches etc. You could probably build a Laverda from scratch out of his parts warehouse!

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2019, 02:46:29 PM »
Not making much progress, work and life continue to get in the way  :tongue:...

I did manage to get a crank shop outside of Edmonton to take a good look at my crankshaft and the two bearings.  John Brunner @ John's Custom Cranks has been a 'go to' for Jim (canuck750) for some time.  John's best in his field, has an amazing machine shop on his country acreage with some old memorabilia displayed - that in itself was worth the trip.

Good news was my crank is in fine shape, all bearing surfaces and rod journals within spec - he cleaned them up nicely.  Not so good news is my bearings are worn with clearances outside of spec.  Much better than a crank re-grind but new bearings are in order.

Which leads to a question.  How does one measure the camshaft bearing clearances that are milled inside the engine case?  If they're outside of spec is there any way to address/remedy??

'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2019, 10:40:11 PM »
Three boxes of parts arrive today from three different suppliers (MGC, HMB, Scrambler), all ordered on Oct 14 which is surprisingly quick turn around for deliveries to Canada.  I need to get busy now!

'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

canuck750

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2019, 04:53:44 PM »
 :popcorn: looking forward to seeing the progress!

Online ozarquebus

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2019, 08:14:40 PM »
Great reporting! This will be very helpful to future restorers on the forum.
John
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Offline moto-uno

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2019, 11:44:40 AM »
 This is in reference to your earlier question concerning the clutch . The early shallow spline clutch hubs are no longer available (maybe you can find new old stock).
So if replacing the clutch , I'd suggest getting the new 4mm hub and matching plates . I used the SD-Tec kit and although it
fit and works well enough , I find the clutch engagement point very limited ! Hopefully others here can suggest a more traffic
friendly clutch .   Peter

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2019, 08:54:10 AM »
This is in reference to your earlier question concerning the clutch . The early shallow spline clutch hubs are no longer available (maybe you can find new old stock).
So if replacing the clutch , I'd suggest getting the new 4mm hub and matching plates . I used the SD-Tec kit and although it
fit and works well enough , I find the clutch engagement point very limited ! Hopefully others here can suggest a more traffic
friendly clutch .   Peter

Interesting. I have SD-TEC plates in my V700 and have installed them in just about every customer's Guzzi for the last few years. I would not consider the "clutch engagement point very limited" - perhaps it's how the arm on the transmission is adjusted. They may not be as "soft" as some others, but much better than the Sureflex plates which are very on/off. 
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
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'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2019, 06:17:48 PM »
This is in reference to your earlier question concerning the clutch . The early shallow spline clutch hubs are no longer available (maybe you can find new old stock).
So if replacing the clutch , I'd suggest getting the new 4mm hub and matching plates . I used the SD-Tec kit and although it
fit and works well enough , I find the clutch engagement point very limited ! Hopefully others here can suggest a more traffic
friendly clutch .   Peter

I've ordered the SD-Tec kit from MG Cycle with the 4mm splines hub.  The old clutch plates were not worn too bad but had a fair amount off oil all over them from a leaking vent pipe gasket.
'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2019, 08:19:32 PM »
Haven't spent too much time in the shop the past few weeks but making some progress with some outside help.

Earlier this week I paid a visit to Jim Carey's (a.k.a. canuck750) shop to drop off my bits for vapor blasting.

 :bow:  :bow: If any of you happen to venture to Alberta, ensure you go to Edmonton and pay Jim a visit.  His workshop is a shrine to MG restoration.  All the bikes less the KLR and K1600 in his signature line are in his shop, each a perfect restoration piece including the Moto Morini nearly complete on the bike lift.  I've only recently caught the MG restoration bug and have spent countless hours reviewing his restoration posts - it's great to see firsthand the very tools that are shown in his posts.  I'm too new to have seen the 'Now That's a Hemi' making of a big block engine cut away display thread from earlier this year (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=100195.0) - this should be in a museum.  Jim is a gracious tour guide, knowledge and passion leaking through each project he explains, with lots of tips and suggestions for my project.  I could have monopolized hours of his time...  Thanks for the tour Jim!

A few short days later and he informs he's completed the blasting, ready for pickup.





Rather than pulling out the case bearings in the transmission (which were in fine shape), I put the two halves together with a home made gasket and sealed up all the openings with fender washers, tire tube gaskets and o-rings.  The only hole I missed was the tach drive and Jim had an old tach drive assembly seal it (he has an old everything somewhere in that shop...).  Should have sealed fine, if some blasting media found it's way in I'll thorough flush with solvent.



Meanwhile I was prepping the frame for sand blasting and powder coating.  At some point in this bikes history the original ignition coil and diode rectifier mounts were cut off and new ones brazed on.  It was shoddy work, not square and some of the brazing was cracking.  I ground these off to make room to weld on new tabs to support the Dyna coil hanger I'm working up that will fit under the main frame tube under the tank.



My collection of torque wrenches vary from a Craftsman micrometer style 1/2" drive that my dad bought for me in high school (nearly the same vintage as the 850T) to several cheap HF like offshore sketchy/questionable accuracy, none ever calibrated.  I picked this up today, less than a year old and slightly used (70 torque cycles - it keeps track) for a reasonable $.  An investment for certain but I'll have some assurance torquing the connecting rod bolts.  I had tried to calibrate my existing wrenches with a set of dumbbells and length of rope - results weren't exactly confidence inspiring.

'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Dave Swanson

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2019, 05:12:06 AM »
You will really have something to be proud of when done! 
Dave Swanson Northern IL
1968 V700
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1974 Eldo
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Offline guzzinka

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2019, 06:30:44 PM »
I was just reading through this thread and noticed your wheel is stamped “record” - is that not the valuable (rarer) rim supplied oem on v7 sports?  Didn’t think the T series got those....

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2019, 07:22:03 PM »
I believe the record 'cross' rims were the ones on the V7 Sport.  Here's a thread that discusses this very issue.

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=80897.msg1275465#msg1275465
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Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2019, 05:52:08 PM »
Haven't posted for a while so this will be a catch-up...

The last pieces to get ready for powder coating were triple clamps.  The bottom steering head bearing was a bugger to get off.  I purchased a flat blade-style bearing separator that worked well.  Bearing was mangled so new ones on the way.



With my engine pieces freshly vapor blasted and waiting for a pickup in Edmonton at Jim's and all by frame pieces at the powder coating shop, I turned my attention to the forks.

I gather the bottom portions of the forks were painted silver from the factory.  The set on this bike appears to have an additional paint coat that was more of a flat grey.  I used a fine brass wire wheel on a bench grinder to remove the paint then some time on a polishing wheel.  Cleaned up nice.



Next was the rims and spokes.  I decided I would salvage the front Borrani rim with the slight bend.  Following instructions posted by others on Borrani rim restoration I managed to clean up the rims and spokes nicely.  Buffed the rims to a near mirror finish with Mothers aluminum wheel polish applied felt wheels on a Dremel.  I found the 8" polishing wheels would get torn up by the spoke nipple holes in the rim.  Time consuming but pleased with the results.  Spokes and nipples cleaned up nicely with the fine brass wire wheel.

'14 KTM 500 EXC
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'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2019, 06:05:30 PM »
Frame and pieces back from Calgary Powder Coating.  Jim and the team there understand how to prep the frame and more fragile pieces with suitable blasting media.  Standard 'carbon black' for the frame and related parts and a slight wrinkle black for the triple clamps and instrument brackets.  Turned out very well - sacrificed some of the old bolts to keep the paint out of the threads as I have a stainless fastener kit from Stainless Cycle.





'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #53 on: December 01, 2019, 06:33:59 PM »
Finally had an reason to go to Edmonton this past week and picked up the aluminum bits I left with Jim.  He did a great job, pieces look new with virtually no traces of the blasting media anywhere.  Here's a contrast to a head that wasn't cleaned.





Back wheel rim and brake backing plate.




Waiting for a few more parts and some free time runway to assemble the engine.  In the meantime, laced up the rims to the cleaned hubs, installed new bearings and started the truing process.  Wheels run surprisingly true when the nipples are finger tightened.








« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 10:39:24 PM by shiskowd »
'14 KTM 500 EXC
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2019, 06:42:54 PM »


If those are both front bearing carriers, then only one bearing is inserted completely to the bottom and secured with a circlip. The other is installed flush and "floats".
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 09:45:11 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
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Offline moto-uno

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2019, 06:53:52 PM »
  I'd be deadly afraid to take anything that perfectly restored out into traffic  :bow: , Peter

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2019, 08:17:11 PM »
Guzzi porn, love it :thumb:

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2019, 10:36:32 PM »
If those are both front bearing carriers, then only one bearing is inserted completely to the bottom and secured with a circlip. The other is installed flush and "floats".

You know, I reviewed the parts manual and only saw one circlip on the larger carrier (the one supporting the single brake disc) but my bike had one on each when I took the wheel apart so I re-installed it.  I'll remove so that it can float as you suggest, makes sense - thanks Charlie!
'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline moto-uno

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2019, 06:54:56 PM »
  I have an early spoked wheel with twin discs and have 2 cir-clips . Was that because of the second disc ?  Peter

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2019, 08:46:22 PM »
  I have an early spoked wheel with twin discs and have 2 cir-clips . Was that because of the second disc ?  Peter

The Eldorado disc brake wheel (about as early as one can get) had one bearing fully in with a circlip and the other flush. Single or twin discs should make no difference.

http://thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/spare_parts_catalog_850_1ed_disc_brake_supplement.pdf

Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada

 

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