New MGX-21 died while riding, will not start after

[Vagrant]

I suspect it has relays like other Guzzi's. I would pull and clean them all and replace them one at a time with a known good 5 prong one. clean the battery ground at the frame too.
I do think the ignition switch might be it and if it's a programed key you better get the other one from Vegas. 

[SportsterDoc]

Did you check the opposite ends of the battery cables and harness grounds?

The brothers (Brad and Mark Yuill) that initially owned Eurocycles were good guys, but retirement age.

Chris, the current owner, is obnoxious.   His silent partner, Antonio Acconerio, has interresting history.  John Hollywood, is/was the sales manager and he seemed to be a decent person.  Because of words exchanged with Chris over him moving my V7II so he could park his Jaguar, my next two bikes came from other dealerships.

So, no love lost over Eurocycles, but what could they have done from a distance?

My 2014 Honda CB1100 (0-60 in 3.3) was warehoused (SoCal)  in a crate for 3 years.   Dealer installed new battery during prep.  12,500 miles in 10 months no issues.

I have no experience with Reno, but Las Vegas buys so many used bikes wholesale, the service department is loaded just prepping them for resale.

[janguzzi]

I have no experience with those 1400 ccm Guzzis but could it be a problem with the ride-by-wire throttle?

[Luap McKeever]

What is happening with Guzzi and their QC? I'm starting to doubt it after 20+ years of no issues.

You do have roadside assistance on that bike. Push it out of your driveway and call them. Make them come pick it up and fix it. If you don't find an answer that is...

[TN Mark]

Where are you in TN, I’m near Chattanooga. I also suspect something easy like a main relay between the battery and the starter solenoid in the ignition system. Others more knowledgeable than me will know if the Demand Sensor could be the culprit. If you can, avoid leaving the bike at Sloan’s for the brake recall until they confirm they have the part(s) in stock. This could be crucial. Others are still waiting, with the bike in the shop, several weeks on parts for that one.

Guzzis are actually very nice bikes once they're sorted out. Sadly, as you’ve found out, the dealer network is very poor. This forum can be your lifeline for getting accurate information on what the bikes need.

[Bud]

     I wonder if the alarm system has an immobilizer that could be shutting down everything. I think you said you didn't get an owners manual but maybe someone here with a Fortress can look for you or you can find out about the alarm on line. Just a thought.

[oldbike54]

 No snark intended . Always put a new battery on a good charger for at least an hour before installing .

 Dusty

[pete roper]

Because there have been a couple of instances with bad demand sensors recently it is NOT a reason to assume that every problem with a RBW Guzzi can be sheeted home to this one issue so let's put that one to bed right now.

What is happening here is an almost complete power drop-out. Now batteries have been tried but the owner's own words about one of them were "I put the acid in and installed it." Which is NOT how you activate an AGM battery. The fact that two other batteries are also failing to wake things up though would tend to make me lean away from the battery itself being the issue.

If I'm reading this correctly the dash flickers and then goes out and the only thing being left illuminated are the tail light LED's? Now these are powered through the main circuits but their current draw will be very low. It would seem to me that what the most likely problem is down to significant voltage drop due to resistance in the main delivery or earth systems. Once current is being drawn the voltage is dropping below the critical point where the dashboard shuts everything down. Once that has happened it won't re-boot again until the voltage rises significantly. Unless the 'Blockage' is removed rhat isn't likely to happen.

I don't know whether the earth strap to the engine has been checked? I believe that like the CARC bikes this mounts on the gearbox under the starter motor cover. It would be well worth removing the cover, then the hexagonal 'Thing' that holds the earth straps and cleaning the eyelets of the strap/s and scraping the paint off the gearbox to ensure a good earth path before coating both with terminal protectant and reinstalling. Another 'Quick and dirty' trick would be to use another big earth strap from somewhere like a bell housing nut/stud to the battery negative just to see if that solved the 'Shut down' problem. If it does then the problem is definitely in the main earth strap and/or it's mounts.

Pete

[SportsterDoc]

...Now these are powered through the main circuits but their current draw will be very low. It would seem to me that what the most likely problem is down to significant voltage drop due to resistance in the main delivery or earth systems. Once current is being drawn the voltage is dropping below the critical point where the dashboard shuts everything down. Once that has happened it won't re-boot again until the voltage rises significantly. Unless the 'Blockage' is removed rhat isn't likely to happen...

Tracking this down is paramount.
Voltage drop will support the hypothesis.

[Kiwi_Roy]

We can't reach through the internet and troubleshoot your bike, you are going to have to do that.
You seem to have lots of money to waste on batteries, spend some of it on a $20 Multi meter so we can start testing.

You will also have to get a little familiar with drawings, there are about 6 for the 1400 but these 3 will do for now
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2014_California_Legend.gif
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2014_California_Ground.gif
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2014_California_Power_Supply.gif

A quick glance at the Legend and the Grounding
Then look at the power supply. don't be put off by the complexity we are only going to do some real basic testing.
The drawing shows two main fuses 30 near the battery 31 follow the Red/White striped wire from fuse 2 up and you will see it powers several other fuses at 62
The striped wire also heads on up to the ignition switch. When the key is turned On it powers up the Green/Black wire that feeds 12 Volts to the remaining 2 fuses.
So with your multimeter you can check for Voltage at all of those fuses If you are not getting anything you have a terminal problem or a main ground problem.
Blade type fuses usually have a tiny slot so you can test for Voltage without having to remove them.


As I said previously your bike may not be exactly like this but it will be very close wire colours may be different.

In the picture you took of the battery the terminals look dry, I cannot stress strongly enough the importance of scraping the posts to show bright metal and applying a little grease.

[Kev m]

OP - if you want to try and troubleshoot it yourself before handing it over to a dealer you have 3-4 of the best troubleshooting (especially electrical) guys I know chiming in. You CAN DO IT with their help.

As for the frustration regarding a new bike and wanting to hold the selling dealer and manufacturer responsible, I GET IT I TRULY DO. I've gone through some lengths in the past and have tilted at many a windmill. But there's nothing more the selling dealer can or should do for you at this point (even if they missed something during prep). If you insist on the manufacturer taking responsibility it would be best to roll it into the street, call the towing service, and go from there. Though if it were me and knowing what I know now, I'd take the help from the techs on the board first.

Good luck, and we're here for you if you want us to be!

[fallguy]

MG is unique in many ways. Sorry again that this is your 1st. Don't give up. It's a machine. There's a fix somewhere unlike a contrary woman.

Im not, I dont blame Moto Guzzi. I honestly blame Euro Cycles so far, but we'll see.

Your bike quit as you were downchanging (decelerating), but would fire again on occasions and now has limited lighting and other contradictory symptoms.
Does your bike have a “tip over” switch.
I’m wondering if it is not in it’s mount properly and has started to cut the ignition and other circuits ?
Did you say whether or not it’s thrown a code ?

It did die as I was down shifting, but never did fire again. It died, and never came back on. Will not turn over, doesn't give the click of a dead battery when trying to start, has zero lights on the dash. Just the front and rear for a fraction of a second when turning the key on.

I feel like something has triggered, maybe as you say a tip over switch. It does tell me the angle of the bike. Something it keeping it from coming on.

Did you check the opposite ends of the battery cables and harness grounds?

The brothers (Brad and Mark Yuill) that initially owned Eurocycles were good guys, but retirement age.

Chris, the current owner, is obnoxious.   His silent partner, Antonio Acconerio, has interresting history.  John Hollywood, is/was the sales manager and he seemed to be a decent person.  Because of words exchanged with Chris over him moving my V7II so he could park his Jaguar, my next two bikes came from other dealerships.

So, no love lost over Eurocycles, but what could they have done from a distance?

My 2014 Honda CB1100 (0-60 in 3.3) was warehoused (SoCal)  in a crate for 3 years.   Dealer installed new battery during prep.  12,500 miles in 10 months no issues.

I have no experience with Reno, but Las Vegas buys so many used bikes wholesale, the service department is loaded just prepping them for resale.

I bought from Vegas, but it shipped from Reno. Just another instance of them messing up. They send the truck to pick up the bike in Vegas, but it was in Reno. So that delayed the shipping by another month, because apparently they only ship across country once a month and it missed the truck. Hollywood is the only decent person there I think too.

Where are you in TN, I’m near Chattanooga. I also suspect something easy like a main relay between the battery and the starter solenoid in the ignition system. Others more knowledgeable than me will know if the Demand Sensor could be the culprit. If you can, avoid leaving the bike at Sloan’s for the brake recall until they confirm they have the part(s) in stock. This could be crucial. Others are still waiting, with the bike in the shop, several weeks on parts for that one.

Guzzis are actually very nice bikes once they're sorted out. Sadly, as you’ve found out, the dealer network is very poor. This forum can be your lifeline for getting accurate information on what the bikes need.

I am in West Knoxville. Closest dealership is outside of Nashville, in Murfreesboro. As you said Sloans. He said I would have to let him know in advance, because he cant get the parts otherwise for the brake recall. So you are correct on that. Seemed very helpful on the phone. Just needs the bike to get it going again and do the recall.

I have not followed the cables the opposite way from the battery. I have read all other replies, just short on time to reply back. I will look into it further, and I REALLY do appreciate the help or advice. I am not giving up on the bike, things happen. This is the bike I wanted, and I am sticking with it. I have dealt with my fair share of gremlins with vehicles, I just waited so long for it and was excited to ride it. It will get sorted, trying to be patient. I have been trying to troubleshoot, and I am not trying to waste money on batteries. I bought one, and it didn't fit. I bought another to try, I am returning the first. That is how you setup the new battery, I followed the instructions exactly. I had to fill each of the eight bays, the liquid came separate.

I have a friend who is going to help me take the bike to the dealer on Monday, brake needs fixed anyways. I will continue to try fixing it until then, just because I don't like not being able to figure something out, especially when its probably so easy. I am married, with 4 kids (20, 15, 6, 2) work full time, and going to school full time for my Masters. Time is not something I have a great deal of. If I dont reply to someone or try something, its not because I dont appreciate the help. I hate getting too deep into something, taking things apart, and having to leave it for days before coming back to. Biggest reason I haven't started to get deeper. I will get another multi meter, needed one anyways. And start testing things when I get the time. Thanks again for the advice, and patience. I will surely follow up when things get fixed.

[Devildog]

Fall Guy, when you have time, do contact Moto Guzzi, especially if the 2nd key and manual were not provided by EC, and see how they respond. A bad dealer is not good for the company. Good luck.

[oldbike54]

 Let's see , married , 4 kids , works full time , still working on a masters , and hasn't started ranting yet 


                                                                                      Attaboy

 Dusty


                                                       

[Kiwi_Roy]

Wow 4 kids, I will certainly cut you some slack, our 3 YO grandson keeps us both busy when we have him to look after.
In lue of a meter something like a tail light bulb with a couple of wires attached is sometimes better than a meter, it adds some load on the circuit.

[TN Mark]

Fallguy,

     I sent you a private message with my contact information. Glad to help if you have the time.

[Daleroso]

I can't disrespect Eurocycle enough. Their product sells itself. I only hope they're held accountable & compelled to improve with as few rider disappointments as possible.

[SportsterDoc]

Good info from Pete Roper and Kiwi Roy.

Two points in following their advice:

1. Rather than reporting "voltage checks good", advise voltage at each check point, as it is important to look for voltage drop in comparison to battery voltage.  Voltage drop is an indication of resistance, usually attributable to a poor connection or frayed cable (most strands broken) or excessive load, which could be a short to ground, but not a dead short sufficient to blow a fuse.

2. From the negative side of each component checked, measure resistance to battery negative terminal.  If connections are good, it should be expected to read 0.1 to maybe 0.2 ohm.  If higher, carefully check related harness grounds.

[fallguy]

The bike is fixed! Had help from a non Guzzi owner, but with lots of experience. Checked voltage on almost everything, battery, fuses, and other connections. Took off some side panels, and dug around. Tracing the battery ground wire led us to the starter solenoid. There is a small 12v connection that was loose on the back side of it that was very hard to get to. Took it off, crimped down the connection so it would attach better, and put it back on. Connected the battery back, and it worked as normal. Lights came on, bike fired right up.

The starter solenoid is right by the shift lever, and the bike did die when I went from 4th to 3rd as I stated before. I supposed the jarring from the shifting maybe finally made it pop off all the way. Which again leads me to believe Euro Cycle did not connect it properly. It should not have came off if they did. When investigating the problem, there were screws that were loose, not there at all, and other little things that just leads me to believe whoever put this together did not do it properly. 

I am VERY grateful for everyone's advice, and patience with me on this problem. And for the help of a forum member who did a home visit to help me out. These forums did exactly as I believe they were intended to do, bring people together and help each other out. Thanks!!!

[JeffOlson]

Loose fasteners: Ugh! Either the dealer or the manufacturer was negligent...

There is a YT video of a group Norge press ride in Italy, and the silencer on one of them came loose and dragged on the ground. Classic!

[Gliderjohn]

The spot welds on my Norge muffler outer shell failed early on and was coming apart. Harpers riveted back together and it has held ever since.
GliderJohn

[Bulldog9]

The bike is fixed! Had help from a non Guzzi owner, but with lots of experience. Checked voltage on almost everything, battery, fuses, and other connections. Took off some side panels, and dug around. Tracing the battery ground wire led us to the starter solenoid. There is a small 12v connection that was loose on the back side of it that was very hard to get to. Took it off, crimped down the connection so it would attach better, and put it back on. Connected the battery back, and it worked as normal. Lights came on, bike fired right up.

The starter solenoid is right by the shift lever, and the bike did die when I went from 4th to 3rd as I stated before. I supposed the jarring from the shifting maybe finally made it pop off all the way. Which again leads me to believe Euro Cycle did not connect it properly. It should not have came off if they did. When investigating the problem, there were screws that were loose, not there at all, and other little things that just leads me to believe whoever put this together did not do it properly. 

I am VERY grateful for everyone's advice, and patience with me on this problem. And for the help of a forum member who did a home visit to help me out. These forums did exactly as I believe they were intended to do, bring people together and help each other out. Thanks!!!

Great news!

Take some time to go over the rest of your bike systematically a bit at a time to ensure all other connections are proper and fasteners tight, etc. Enjoy! the MGX takes some adjustment, but is a brilliant bike!

FWIW, after playing with tire pressures to address the 21" front tire, I found 38-39lbs to be perfect for my feel. Others are running stock (36) and some 42.

[LowRyter]

good going!

[oldbike54]

 Great news  Now you can make it to the GRIT rally or Oklahoma camp out and show that beauty off .

 Dusty

[fallguy]

Thanks for the other suggestions. I will take time to get more familiar with this bike, and tweak it some now. I am very very excited to have it working. So is my wife, gonna try to get out and ride soon.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Thats great news, the wire you describe sounds like the trigger for the solenoid which shouldn't really effect the dash lights.
Do you think your friend may have fixed a loose ground behind the starter at the same time?
Or
Does the main feed for the fuses tap into the main starter cable at the solenoid, that used to be a common method of keeping the number of battery terminals to a minimum.

Cheers
Roy

[Gliderjohn]

Good to hear that the problem appears fixed. Best of luck here on out.
GliderJohn

[RinkRat II]

 Excellent news Fallguy,  Something to think about is Karma.  It would be beneficial to donate whatever you feel to this forum, It helps Luap keep this running so all us know-it-alls can help from time to time Glad your back on the road.

      Paul B

[gfritzmeier]

It's 1800 miles from Tennessee back to the dealer in Las Vegas...

It was shipped to Tennessee

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sounds like Mark is probably the guy. Attaboy. 

Thats great news, the wire you describe sounds like the trigger for the solenoid which shouldn't really effect the dash lights.
Do you think your friend may have fixed a loose ground behind the starter at the same time?

Of course, that sounds like what most have been saying all along. <shrug>

Something to think about is Karma.  It would be beneficial to donate whatever you feel to this forum, It helps Luap keep this running so all us know-it-alls can help from time to time

Good point. Think of the expense and hassle of trying to get it fixed otherwise. A small donation to WG certainly isn't out of line.. the pittance I give to WG every year is invaluable to me.