Charging Light

[jacksonracingcomau]

Yes, brake. 

Well, everything is back together, the light goes off much quicker than before and it easily reaches 13.2 at the usual rpm’s but I will see what happens tomorrow after a longe run at a sustained higher speed(s). The light still glows at idle, but I forgot to adjust the VR, so maybe that will solve that issue.

All good, idle light normal
Love it when it’s easy, normally is with Guzzi, simples

[n3303j]

2,000 RPM is when the charging light extinguishes on a first start on my T3. Once the system has power running through it to maintain rotor magnetism the charging light goes out sooner. The charge indicator bulb is used as a resistor and passes a current through the rotor to produce a weak magnetic field. This is enough to start current production. The system is then self supporting. Just always check that your charge lamp lights at KEY ON. Then you don't need a bootstrap. It only functions at the start up.

In your first photo the brush springs are installed 180 degrees out of rotation (and spring tab is on the wrong side of the mounting ear.

 That will allow your brushes to bounce on the slip rings. Spring should carry at least a full turn wind up. Seems to me I read an 8 pound spec for brush spring pressure somewhere or other. You said you corrected that and charging is currently normal. Looks like your problem is solved.

[Frenchfrog]

Mine after a rebuild with a combined reg/rec needs to get up to 2,000rpm before the light goes out..previously went out around 1,500.better charge though !!

[wirespokes]

It doesn't make sense the light staying on till 2K. I can't see a good reason why that should be normal when everything is right.

I'm really curious what's keeping the light from extinguishing at 1200 or 1500 RPM? That's not right at all and I'd be looking for the reason why. I always thought the charge light connected to the alternator, but from diagrams it's connected to terminal D+ (61 is the same thing) at the diode board. That terminal is directly connected to the voltage regulator, and from there is connected to DF at the alternator. My thought is there's a poor connection somewhere along the way, or it has something to do with the VR.

[n3303j]

Is the charge light always on below 2K or just on the initial run up? I only see mine on at 2K on the initial run up, until the system becomes self sustaining. Subsequent light appearances are only at a very low RPM.

[Frenchfrog]

Mine behaves exactly the same as yours n3303j.The regulater/rectifier is a sachse unit.The warning light is a led with built in resistance so this could be the reason too ??
 

[wirespokes]

I'll have to pay more attention to mine at first start up. See if it's any different.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'll have to pay more attention to mine at first start up. See if it's any different.

The AeroLario is that way, too. First start, the light doesn't go off until 2k rpm, then after that it stays off.

[blackcat]

Is the charge light always on below 2K or just on the initial run up? I only see mine on at 2K on the initial run up, until the system becomes self sustaining. Subsequent light appearances are only at a very low RPM.

At lower rpm’s, like idle,  it’s always on.

Went for a long ride today and at the first stop(60 miles)  the battery was at 13.1 with the headlight on, then the next stop was about 90 miles later and the battery was down to 12.3. NG.  Turned off the light and did another 90 miles with the battery reading 13.1-2.  At first I thought it was a failing battery but that doesn’t seem right either, so it might be something in the wiring of an Eastern Beaver light relay kit. Sometime this week I will remove the relay and see if that solves the problem.  https://easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html

[n3303j]

Sounds like you either have a lot of drain on the system or low output. I'm running a stock system except for a higher output EME solid state regulator. Never had any problems keeping up with stock T3 lighting, Garmin Zumo and heated grips (2 or 4 amp depending on heat settings).

First start takes 2K RPM to put out the light. My idle is about 1,150. I don't get the light at those idle speeds. Running an Odyssey 925 and never ran it out. The Odyssey is 10 years old and hasn't been treated with gentle care. It has 70K miles on it. That old Bosch System is great.

[wirespokes]

blackcat - where were you taking the voltage readings? At the battery or a volt meter wired into the system? Where in the system?

As the battery gets all charged up following the starter draining it, and lights at idle, the alternator will put out less electricity since the battery needs less. I wonder if that's what you're seeing?

[blackcat]

blackcat - where were you taking the voltage readings? At the battery or a volt meter wired into the system? Where in the system?

As the battery gets all charged up following the starter draining it, and lights at idle, the alternator will put out less electricity since the battery needs less. I wonder if that's what you're seeing?

Taking the readings with a hand held meter at the starter or battery with the same readings.

Battery is an Odyssey 925 and another new battery was also used with the same results. Nothing else is running electric except the lights and the Dyna.

[wirespokes]

The readings came directly from the battery while the engine was running. Got it.  Down to 12.3 doesn't sound good, though at idle you're running off the battery and by the time the reading was taken it's possible it ran down a little.  It's evidently charging since it didn't leave you stranded on the ride.  What's the voltage at 3K RPM?  Does it make it up past 14 volts?

[Chuck in Indiana]

There has been quite a bit of Odyssey research on the V11 lemans forum. First, an Odyssey needs to be conditioned by a dedicated charger. If it is really low, it takes a minimum of 6 amps to charge it. Best voltage is mid 14s on the bike, but never over 15. That will cause them to outgas.. not a good thing. Once properly conditioned, they will last for years.
That said..
To me, it sounds like you have low charging voltage on the bike for whatever reason. Definitely 13.3 won't get it. 14.3 would be more like it.

[blackcat]

Nope, not getting to 14 volts.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sum Ting Wong, that Chinese mechanic, says <scratching head> Dunno. 
I was getting low voltage and as I mentioned, had a loose crimp on a connector at the alternator. I've also had corroded fuses cause it. Could be corrosion on a Molex connector. I've seen that, too.
DeOxit is your friend, though. If it were me, I'd have every connector apart, give it a squirt, wiggle it around, oh you know..
You can do the whole bike in a couple of hours. Your electrical system will thank you.

[Muzz]

As the battery gets all charged up following the starter draining it, and lights at idle, the alternator will put out less electricity since the battery needs less. I wonder if that's what you're seeing?

The voltage however should be up, around 13.8 to 14.2 volts running on a fully charged battery.

[blackcat]

Sum Ting Wong, that Chinese mechanic, says <scratching head> Dunno. 
I was getting low voltage and as I mentioned, had a loose crimp on a connector at the alternator. I've also had corroded fuses cause it. Could be corrosion on a Molex connector. I've seen that, too.
DeOxit is your friend, though. If it were me, I'd have every connector apart, give it a squirt, wiggle it around, oh you know..
You can do the whole bike in a couple of hours. Your electrical system will thank you.

Went through all the connectors and DeOxit was used at every connection. I’ll double check it again

[wirespokes]

The voltage however should be up, around 13.8 to 14.2 volts running on a fully charged battery.

When I wrote that, it was from the viewpoint of a meter on the dash. But come to think of it (been a long time since I've watched one of those), the volt meter read low until the battery was all charged up.

And yes, the battery should be at 12.7 or so at a minimum. If it's being charged they usually read 13+.

Even though the system is working now, it's not optimum. Sounds like you found and corrected some faults, but there's more to go.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Did you check all the diodes in the rectifier?
In particular the 3 small ones that feed 61 and D+
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1978_V1000_SP.gif
If you have a diode test on your meter it should read 0.6 Volts from each yellow wire to 61

Another test you can do while you are measuring the battery with engine running, terminal 61 or D+ should be almost identical to the battery Voltage, it may be lower at idle but should reach battery Voltage at revs
The regulator actually uses this as the battery Voltage for regulation purposes.

In the interest of troubleshooting could you rev the bike and read D+ and also DF at 2000 RPM it goes without saying D- at the alternator and the regulator should be reading zero (well grounded)
From those readings we might be able to figure out where the problem lies.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm confused, KR.. what is 61?

[blackcat]

Did you check all the diodes in the rectifier?
In particular the 3 small ones that feed 61 and D+
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1978_V1000_SP.gif
If you have a diode test on your meter it should read 0.6 Volts from each yellow wire to 61

Another test you can do while you are measuring the battery with engine running, terminal 61 or D+ should be almost identical to the battery Voltage, it may be lower at idle but should reach battery Voltage at revs
The regulator actually uses this as the battery Voltage for regulation purposes.

In the interest of troubleshooting could you rev the bike and read D+ and also DF at 2000 RPM it goes without saying D- at the alternator and the regulator should be reading zero (well grounded)
From those readings we might be able to figure out where the problem lies.

Don’t know if my meter tests diodes, have to look but I can do the other tests.

61 is the the blue wire from the rectifier to the charging light.

[chuck peterson]

Using an adjustable VR, 13.2-13.4 volts measured at the battery above 2000 rpm is great....when your headlight is on.  Headlight off it'll jump to 14.3-14.5 about

What kind of wattage are you running in the headlight?

I found an extra 3/4 volt by adding a second ground off the diode board, along with cleaning and smearing all the grounds..it seemed to be a never ending search

[blackcat]

Using an adjustable VR, 13.2-13.4 volts measured at the battery above 2000 rpm is great....when your headlight is on.  Headlight off it'll jump to 14.3-14.5 about

What kind of wattage are you running in the headlight?

I found an extra 3/4 volt by adding a second ground off the diode board, along with cleaning and smearing all the grounds..it seemed to be a never ending search

I’m not getting those kind of readings, headlight off will get 13.2 but it goes to 12.5 or something like that with the headlight on. Stock headlight and I have two grounds for the rectifier one to the frame which has been there all along and I ran another directly to the battery.

The new adjustable voltage regulator doesn’t increase when adjusted if that is any help.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Have you checked AC output to to the 3 yellow wires? From memory  it should be around 45VAC at 4K rpm or so.
The important thing is they are all the same between 1-2, 1-3, 2-3. If so, I'm betting on the diode board.

[blackcat]

Have you checked AC output to to the 3 yellow wires? From memory  it should be around 45VAC at 4K rpm or so.
The important thing is they are all the same between 1-2, 1-3, 2-3. If so, I'm betting on the diode board.

I haven’t checked the 3 wires but will check tomorrow.  I did put the meter on the large spade of the rectifier and revved up the engine. The readings were all over the place, it did reach 14.1 at one point and everything in between but wouldn’t run up to 14.1 again after the initial attempt.

I will check the rest of the items Roy mentioned, but I do have a brand new rectifier and I’m thinking that I should install it to rule out the existing rectifier. Can’t hurt.

[Frenchfrog]

As soon as I read that the adjustable regulator wasn't adjusting I thoght the issue may be there BC....swapping that out has to be a good check.

[blackcat]

Installed the new rectifier and 14.1 volts, but I’m not calling it fixed until I give it a few days as I’ve been down this road before. 

[Muzz]

Installed the new rectifier and 14.1 volts, but I’m not calling it fixed until I give it a few days as I’ve been down this road before.

That's looking more like it.

Perhaps a diode dropped in the old one?

[Kiwi_Roy]

That's looking more like it.

Perhaps a diode dropped in the old one?

Yes one of the 3 small ones limiting the power available to excite the rotor.