Mille GT Production Figures

[jumpmaster]

Can anyone give me a somewhat authoritative figure on how many Mille GTs were imported to the US?  I've spent the past 2 hours searching the MG Factory web-site, Guzziology, This Old Tractor, the internet in general, and the Wildguzzi site without much success.  I did find one poster who said 200 were sold in the US (what year?) and another said 3000 Milles & Spadas were manufactured over a 6-year (including European-only the last year) lifespan - which averages about 500/year - but no sources were sited for these figures.  In addition, that gives no hint about the % imported to the USA.

Thanks

[moto-uno]

  Any chance you could contact the importer ?  Peter

[bmc5733946]

I have never seen or heard overall production numbers. Shortly after I aquired my 1989 Mille GT in 1993, I had a conversation with Fran Cantaldi who was the importer at the time, he indicated, with some hesitancy, that he thought maybe, at the most, 200 Milles had come to the US. I consider that the most accurate information I will ever get. He would not speculate on numbers of red vs black or series 1 or 2 versions. I am unwilling to believe that the mothership would have better numbers but it's possible. Guzzi will never be known for the accuracy of their paper work. If some one comes across more definitive numbers I will be very interested!

Brian

[jumpmaster]

  Any chance you could contact the importer ?  Peter

Not much - Berliner Motor Corporation, the importer during the period the Mille GT was imported to the US, went belly-up in 1984 per Wikipedia.  No hints as to who got their business records, if anyone, or if they still exist in a warehouse somewhere.  I might be able to get some info if I visited the factory in Italy - and spoke Italian (I hear Italian-speakers get a warmer welcome), but I have lots of places on my travel bucket list that are cheaper than a trip to Italy, no matter how nice it might be.  The MG web page shows how to get an official history of a specific bike, but nothing on how to get overall import/export numbers.

Thanks for the responses, though.

[nc43bsa]

Not much - Berliner Motor Corporation, the importer during the period the Mille GT was imported to the US, went belly-up in 1984 per Wikipedia.

If Berliner went belly-up in 1984, they couldn't have imported MilleGTs in 1987-1991.

[jumpmaster]

If Berliner went belly-up in 1984, they couldn't have imported MilleGTs in 1987-1991.

Exactly!  I have no idea who was the importer for the Milles.  Your point is well-taken - Berliner wouldn't have had any sales/import figures for the Milles; I guess I had Ambassadors/Eldorados/etc. on the brain.  If the factory took over more directly after Berliner folded, my point about difficulty in getting info out of the factory on this particular issues still stands.

[SLDMRossi]

After Berliner, Moto Guzzi was distributed for a couple of years via Maserati out of their facility on Caton Ave. in Baltimore, MD. Then came Fran Contaldi/Moto America in North Carolina, who brought in the Mille, etc. Aprilia followed that, and finally...Piaggio.

Steven Rossi

[rocker59]

Can anyone give me a somewhat authoritative figure on how many Mille GTs were imported to the US?  I've spent the past 2 hours searching the MG Factory web-site, Guzziology, This Old Tractor, the internet in general, and the Wildguzzi site without much success.  I did find one poster who said 200 were sold in the US (what year?) and another said 3000 Milles & Spadas were manufactured over a 6-year (including European-only the last year) lifespan - which averages about 500/year - but no sources were sited for these figures.  In addition, that gives no hint about the % imported to the USA.

Thanks

A quest worthy of Percival, himself.   

[Turin]

After Berliner, Moto Guzzi was distributed for a couple of years via Maserati out of their facility on Caton Ave. in Baltimore, MD. Then came Fran Contaldi/Moto America in North Carolina, who brought in the Mille, etc. Aprilia followed that, and finally...Piaggio.

Yup. The MCO for my 87 LeMans had Maserati logos on it.

[TN Mark]

The 200 number is likely optimistic. In the four decades I’ve followed this brand, rarely have import numbers been verified.

It’s an interesting question but why does it matter?

[jumpmaster]

The 200 number is likely optimistic. In the four decades I’ve followed this brand, rarely have import numbers been verified.

It’s an interesting question but why does it matter?

Curiosity.  I find it interesting that Mille GTs appear to be MUCH rarer than, say, Ambassadors &/or Eldorados, but don't sell for even half their price.  Particularly since when I first bought mine & submitted my introduction on Wildguzzi.com it seemed that almost every response that included an opinion had a statement about how much the writer loved his current or previously owned Mille.  Most of the prior owners stated that they were sorry they sold theirs or that they were looking to buy another one.  I've also seen probably 2-3 times as many different Falcones listed on ebay, again at 2-3 or even 4 times the apparent going rate for a Mille.  I know that rarity is only one factor in what bike becomes "desirable", but for my money my Mille is at least as rideable as my Eldorado and much more exclusive.  I know other ones out there somewhere, but in the 6 years I've owned the Mille, the only one I've seen on the road is mine when I saw my reflection in a storefront window as I drove past.  In the same time period, I've seen half a dozen loops.

OK, that's my rant for this month!

[rocker59]

Curiosity.  I find it interesting that Mille GTs appear to be MUCH rarer than, say, Ambassadors &/or Eldorados, but don't sell for even half their price.  Particularly since when I first bought mine & submitted my introduction on Wildguzzi.com it seemed that almost every response that included an opinion had a statement about how much the writer loved his current or previously owned Mille.  Most of the prior owners stated that they were sorry they sold theirs or that they were looking to buy another one.  I've also seen probably 2-3 times as many different Falcones listed on ebay, again at 2-3 or even 4 times the apparent going rate for a Mille.  I know that rarity is only one factor in what bike becomes "desirable", but for my money my Mille is at least as rideable as my Eldorado and much more exclusive.  I know other ones out there somewhere, but in the 6 years I've owned the Mille, the only one I've seen on the road is mine when I saw my reflection in a storefront window as I drove past.  In the same time period, I've seen half a dozen loops.

OK, that's my rant for this month!

Guzzi was at its all time peak, cranking out 40,000+ units per year in the early 1970s when the Eldos were in production. 

The 1987-1993 time frame was one of Guzzi's all time lows.  Guzzi did not import motorcycles to the United States in 1988 and 1992.  They were barely scraping by, producing fewer than 1500 units per year during this time.

Milles are rare.  If the 200 unit number is real, it's probably a world number.  There are probably tens of the Mille GT in The USA.  The only place you're going to see one in person is at a Guzzi campout/rally.  The odds of randomly passing one on the highway are probably only slightly better than winning the Powerball Lottery this week.

Rarity, Desirability, and value do not go hand-in-hand.  There are many rare things in this world which have no value.  The value of something is determined by demand and desirability.  The fact that Ambos and Eldos were produced in high numbers, were seen on TV and in Movies, and enough of them were built so that people saw them around, created desirability. 

Mille GT is just an obscure Tonti model produced during a low point in Guzzi history, good bike though it may be.

[jumpmaster]

Rocker59 & others:  thanks for the informative history lesson.   

[Tusayan]

The 1987-1993 time frame was one of Guzzi's all time lows.  Guzzi did not import motorcycles to the United States in 1988 and 1992.  They were barely scraping by, producing fewer than 1500 units per year during this time.

But oddly enough during this period Guzzi parts availability from the US importer was at an all time high. You could get anything down to the tiniest washer in a couple of weeks.  The importer was running a business based on parts sales.  I completely restored my Le Mans in 1989 with a lot of new odds and ends from Guzzi, and every single part I ordered was readily available.

[rocker59]

But oddly enough during this period Guzzi parts availability from the US importer was at an all time high. You could get anything down to the tiniest washer in a couple of weeks.  The importer was running a business based on parts sales.  I completely restored my Le Mans in 1989 with a lot of new odds and ends from Guzzi, and every single part I ordered was readily available.

Those were the days.  Gone now, forever...

[guzzimatic]

As to the Mille GT, two friends of mine owned a red one over several years. It was stunning in the metal and a nice honest motorcycle,with a few flaws...the front fork was never as solid feeling as the one on my Convert,they messed with triple trees,slider overlap,something just a bit wonky... The seat,with plastic base was not well supported and wore on you over time. Still one of the prettiest Guzzi ever!!!

[Chuck in Indiana]

As to the Mille GT, two friends of mine owned a red one over several years. It was stunning in the metal and a nice honest motorcycle,with a few flaws...the front fork was never as solid feeling as the one on my Convert,they messed with triple trees,slider overlap,something just a bit wonky... The seat,with plastic base was not well supported and wore on you over time. Still one of the prettiest Guzzi ever!!!

[/b]

Agreed. I first saw a red one at the Indiana rally many years ago, and thought, "Wowza.." 

[bmc5733946]

If one looks closely at the "black" models one will find that they are definetly not black! Moto Guzzi called it something like lotus black or dark lotus. It has a very nice, very small goldish metal flake element that causes the color to appear greenish. I know my color description is lame, it's the best I can do! One of my bodyman friends said that it was a very sophisticated paint color for the era. I too love the red ones.

Brian

[redrider90]

If Berliner went belly-up in 1984, they couldn't have imported MilleGTs in 1987-1991.

Correct me if this is wrong but only Europe had 87,88 and 91 Mille's . The 91 had the mid valve engine.
The US only imported them in 89 and 90.
Every time I have seen a 87,88, and 91 for sale it was always in Europe.
According to this website http://databikes.com/infophoto/moto_guzzi/mille_gt-1995.html
Milles were produced in 92,93,94 and 95.

[bmc5733946]

Mario Colombo's "80 YEARS  OF MOTO GUZZI MOTORCYCLES"   states production began in 1987 and ended in 1993. Colombo also lists serial numbers starting with VH30000 TO VH 34685. These numbers may indicate that total production was 4685 units. Colombo urges caution when making assumptions using these numbers. I believe that the confusion about model years stems from the common practice of using the year of sale or titling as the model year. Many DMV type units cannot seem to handle vehicles sold in years after their production so titling, licensing year becomes model year to them, owners then rely on this misinformation when speaking about or selling the bike. The data plate on the steering neck is probably most accurate place to find information but is often ignored.

Brian

[rocker59]

The data plate on the steering neck is probably most accurate place to find information but is often ignored.

Brian

The most accurate indicator of year model is the 10th digit in the VIN.

H =   1987
J =   1988
K =   1989
L =   1990
M =   1991
N =   1992
P =   1993

[Denis]

DeTomaso owned Moto Guzzi, along with Benelli and Maserati after 1973. Guzzis were imported through Baltimore after Berliner folded.

I can't remember exactly when (probably '90ish give or take a year), but an agreement was reached between the importer in Baltimore to move down and share the building with the already well-established and loved Midway Cycles in Lillington, NC.

Fran Contaldi, his wife Donna, and Mark Macek moved from Baltimore with the importer business. At some point after this Moto America came about as the importer by name.

Then Midway Cycles closed. Eric left and some of the remaining employees became employees of Moto America.

Later Moto America moved to Angier, NC, where it remained for a couple of years. Finally, when Piaggio bought Moto Guzzi, importation moved to the offices in Atlanta and Moto America ceased to be.

[redrider90]

DeTomaso owned Moto Guzzi, along with Benelli and Maserati after 1973. Guzzis were imported through Baltimore after Berliner folded.

I can't remember exactly when (probably '90ish give or take a year), but an agreement was reached between the importer in Baltimore to move down and share the building with the already well-established and loved Midway Cycles in Lillington, NC.

Fran Contaldi, his wife Donna, and Mark Macek moved from Baltimore with the importer business. At some point after this Moto America came about as the importer by name.

Then Midway Cycles closed. Eric left and some of the remaining employees became employees of Moto America.

Later Moto America moved to Angier, NC, where it remained for a couple of years. Finally, when Piaggio bought Moto Guzzi, importation moved to the offices in Atlanta and Moto America ceased to be.

I bought my 90 Mille from Fran in 91 and I believe he was also part of Midway. It was Donna's bike before that. It had about 1500 miles on it. Moto America was there when I first took my top ends of my 72 Ducati to Eric who did the valves and guides in late 1990 and that is when my long lost lust for a Guzzi was revived. After Eric did my valves I put the Ducati back together and bought the Mille.
Some time in the next couple of years after that Fran found himself in a law suit with Moto Guzzi dealers. If my history is correct he was undercutting them and guys where coming in from all over the place to buy from Midway(Fran) at cheaper prices.  I believe Fran lost that suit and had to split off from Midway and quit selling bikes to the public. I bought the Mille cheap when Fran was having a fire sale cause he had cash flow problems. He offered me the Mille $5K out the door or a new Lemans V for $5700 out the door. For a couple of years Moto America continued to  put on a raffle in Angier that drew hoards of people. He started that at Midway.  Lillington was lined with hundreds of bikes. It was quite a party for a few years.

[nc43bsa]

IIRC, Fran had nothing to do with the open houses.  Eric and Emily started that.

[redrider90]

IIRC, Fran had nothing to do with the open houses.  Eric and Emily started that.

I know. I didn't say Fran started it. But he participated it the events. 

[jguzzi]

I have really great memories of Midway Cycle and Moto America.  I moved to Greensboro NC in 1991 and lo and behold, Moto America was in Lillington NC, a small little town. So I went down there a few times and they were seemingly in an old car dealership type building with big display windows where you could see all the latest models.  I had some repair work done there on my 71 Ambo and also sold a Cali II on consignment there.  I remember Fran, Emily, Shelby, and other staff as very welcoming.  One highlight of going there was seeing the Mille models in red and black on the display floor, SP IIIs, and 4 or 5 1000S models too.  I went to all of the open house events in Lillington and Angier and won best California and best sidecar (my little son rode in the sidecar that year and he is now 28).  The plaques are hanging in my garage.  They also gave away Dr. John race posters and I still have one hanging in the garage too.  The numbers in attendance were huge and from all over the US.  I miss those events.

[Two Checks]

Yep, they were in an old Ford dealership.