Motul 7100 10w-60 ester

[oldbike54]

<sigh>

 Look , just run the weight and spec of oil the manufacturer calls for , these oil threads always deteriorate into what we are seeing here . If price is a concern , buy a cheaper older motorbike . Attempting to save a few bucks on oil after spending big money on a new or even a used motorbike is a false economy . There are reasons the manufacturers spec a certain weight of oil , arguing with that is just silly .

 Dusty

[kballowe]

The JASO MA spec limits maximum ZDDP @ 800 - 1200 ppm.  See page 5, table 4. 

The JASO MA spec is mostly referenced for motorcycles with wet clutches (JASO T 903).

Source:
http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1904.pdf



California 1400 owner's manual.  In several other sections, the manual states "use a high quality 10W-60 motor oil"
Note that some of the later year-model owner's manuals specify Castrol oil products.

[Two Checks]

There is only one reason manufacturers mention brands of oil.


They get paid to do so.

[Tom H]

The 1400 gear oil spec is interesting. It's like a Loop 4spd. GL4 for the transmission (the part you shift) and GL5 for the rear end.

Tom

[kballowe]

The 1400 gear oil spec is interesting. It's like a Loop 4spd. GL4 for the transmission (the part you shift) and GL5 for the rear end.

Tom

I was thinking that something got lost in the translation.  "Transmission" refers to the shaft drive pumpkin, or does it ?

[oldbike54]

There is only one reason manufacturers mention brands of oil.


They get paid to do so.

 This is true , you just need to match specs .

 Dusty

[Peter from Sch'dy]

Sorry it took so long for my reply. My question was answered early in the thread and if my delayed response contributed to the oil thread rancor, please accept my apology. I'm using it in a 2 valve Norge which has used agip \ENI from new. Currently has 96000 miles.
Best Regards,
Peter

[Tom H]

I was thinking that something got lost in the translation.  "Transmission" refers to the shaft drive pumpkin, or does it ?

I might/probably have it backward for the 1400. Need the capacity to be sure.

Tom

[LowRyter]

I was thinking that something got lost in the translation.  "Transmission" refers to the shaft drive pumpkin, or does it ?

I think that's correct for my old Guzzis. 

[Perazzimx14]

Interesting there are a number of oils that meet or exceed the Moto Guzzi's specified API CCMC G-4 rating. Whats really interesting is this rating is not oil weight specific! So does the 10W-60 matter or does using an oil the meets or exceeds API CCMC G-4 matter no matter what weigh the oil is?

[redhawk47]

Peraz----

You're all wet.  Sorry. You're adding nothing but BS.  SG rating is important for legacy motorcycles- that's the standard with high zinc levels (ZDDP).  It was obsolete in late model cars with low friction gas mileage engines and catalytic converters but the oil offers less internal protection.  The JAS MA2 is likewise motorcycle specific standard.

Having said all that, I'm not here to debate which standards are good or bad.  I was just calling your bluff if you can tell us what $22 oil meets the weight and standards specified by the manufacturer.  I am not here to debate if the standards are correct or not.

I am not saying the cheaper oil won't work and provide no problems but that wasn't the question.  I know riders that have been using Rotella for years and it might be fine.  But I am not taking the risk my Ducati and want SG/MA2 for my other bikes.  If you can get 15-50 for $22, let's hear it.   Until then, I am done with the conversation.

Agreed. How do you expect us to save money if you won't tell us what brand and where to buy the lower cost oil that is "just as good"!!!
So far you are just blowing smoke!!

Dan

[Perazzimx14]

Agreed. How do you expect us to save money if you won't tell us what brand and where to buy the lower cost oil that is "just as good"!!!
So far you are just blowing smoke!!

Dan

Any comment on the question about which is more important API CCMC G-4 rating or weight?

[oldbike54]

Any comment on the question about which is more important API CCMC G-4 rating or weight?

 Both are important .

 Dusty

[Perazzimx14]

Both are important .

 Dusty

So which one is more important?


The manual as posted states:

SAE 10W-60. As an alternative for recommended oils, top-branded oils that meet or exceed the requirement of CCMC G-4 SG specification can be used.


So if SAE 10W-60 is not avalaible and if an alternative is to be used as long as it meet or exceeds CCMC G-4 rating per the manual its okay to use. The manual makes no mention of what weight the "alternate" oil is to be only that it meets a rating. Oils that meet or exceed CCMC G-4 ratings come in different weights.

Also do modern Guzzi engine with roller lifters and caytalic converters require the high zinc content as are in SG rated oils?

[oldbike54]

So which one is more important?


The manual as posted states:

SAE 10W-60. As an alternative for recommended oils, top-branded oils that meet or exceed the requirement of CCMC G-4 SG specification can be used.


So if SAE 10W-60 is not avalaible and if an alternative is to be used as long as it meet or exceeds CCMC G-4 rating per the manual its okay to use. The manual makes no mention of what weight the "alternate" oil is to be only that it meets a rating. Oils that meet or exceed CCMC G-4 ratings come in different weights.

Also do modern Guzzi engine with roller lifters and caytalic converters require the high zinc content as are in SG rated oils?

 Alternate brands , not alternate weights .

 Dusty

[Perazzimx14]

Alternate brands , not alternate weights .

 Dusty

So you're saying the alternate for 10W-60 IS 10W-60

[Two Checks]

Anything other than 10-60 is only in a pinch. Using other than 10-60 regularly can and most likely will void the warranty.
YMMV

[Perazzimx14]

Anything other than 10-60 is only in a pinch. Using other than 10-60 regularly can and most likely will void the warranty.
YMMV

How can using an oil that is acceptable by the manufacture going to void a warranty? Guzzi flat out states oils that meet or exceed CCMC G-4 ratings are acceptable.

[oldbike54]

 <SIGH>

 Dusty

[kingoffleece]

I read it as alternate brands-not weights.
I saw a tech bulletin dated quite a while ago to dealers informing them that the 1100 motors like my Jackal were now recommended for 10-60 as a supersede to the old recommendation.  I did NOT pay attention to all the years listed as only 2001 mattered to me.

Dusty, I'm not sure what you meant with the comments directed to me.

[kingoffleece]

I know this stuff gets crazy so I'll muck it up some more.  The car oil thing and wet clutches.  I read a LOT how riders NEVER have issues with the clutch and car oil (obviously shared I realize, as do you) but yet I'm in shops and often see a clutch apart to be serviced as car oil has mucked it up.  I also see TONS of snowmobile carbs apart in summer getting the E10 gunk cleaned out that others swear that they NEVER use stabilized gas and never have an issue.  What to do, I ask, or believe?  (Don't answer, it's a oratorical question).

[oldbike54]

I read it as alternate brands-not weights.
I saw a tech bulletin dated quite a while ago to dealers informing them that the 1100 motors like my Jackal were now recommended for 10-60 as a supersede to the old recommendation.  I did NOT pay attention to all the years listed as only 2001 mattered to me.

Dusty, I'm not sure what you meant with the comments directed to me.

 Looks like I was agreeing with you .

 Dusty

[Two Checks]

Quote from: Perazzimx14 on Today at 11:11:31 AM

How can using an oil that is acceptable by the manufacture going to void a warranty? Guzzi flat out states oils that meet or exceed CCMC G-4 ratings are acceptable.

Go back and read what I wrote.

To save the trouble Guzzi says to use 10-60. Other viscosity oils can meet or exceed that spec except in viscosity. You must use the proper viscosity as well as the proper type. 10-50 will not work as well as 10-60 in high heat situations. The 10-50 will not maintain viscosity.

As for wet clutches they get gummed up by using "energy conserving" oils which contain added molybdenum to make up for reduced zddp. If the container has the energy conserving "starburst" on the label don't use it with a wet clutch. This is usually on oils of 10-30 or thinner.

Most bikes with wet clutches require 10-40 and usually they don't have the added moly. Read the labels.

[Lannis]

    Go back and read what I wrote.

    To save the trouble Guzzi says to use 10-60. Other viscosity oils can meet or exceed that spec except in viscosity. You must use the proper viscosity as well as the proper type. 10-50 will not work as well as 10-60 in high heat situations. The 10-50 will not maintain viscosity.

He already knows that.   Should be easy by now to spot someone who's talking BS just to "keep the party going" .....

Lannis

[Hittman]

He already knows that.   Should be easy by now to spot someone who's talking BS just to "keep the party going" .....

Lannis

This

[Perazzimx14]

Quote from: Perazzimx14 on Today at 11:11:31 AM

How can using an oil that is acceptable by the manufacture going to void a warranty? Guzzi flat out states oils that meet or exceed CCMC G-4 ratings are acceptable.

Go back and read what I wrote.

To save the trouble Guzzi says to use 10-60. Other viscosity oils can meet or exceed that spec except in viscosity. You must use the proper viscosity as well as the proper type. 10-50 will not work as well as 10-60 in high heat situations. The 10-50 will not maintain viscosity.

As for wet clutches they get gummed up by using "energy conserving" oils which contain added molybdenum to make up for reduced zddp. If the container has the energy conserving "starburst" on the label don't use it with a wet clutch. This is usually on oils of 10-30 or thinner.

Most bikes with wet clutches require 10-40 and usually they don't have the added moly. Read the labels.

Also go back and read where I stated that 10W-60 unless sitting in s-n-g traffic in sub-Sahara Africa the "60" probably never comes into play. I'm not arguing 10W-60 will withstand higher temperatures than xxW-50 but how often do you think you engine came close to using the 60?

The 10W-40 in bikes with wet clutches is partially correct however there are wet clutch bikes that call for 10W-40 or 20W50 like the DR650 depending on what temperature range you are in. In fact most bike have a list of different weight oils acceptable depending on what temperature you are general in. There is a lot of overlap so if you venture into another temperature range you are covered. Interesting that Guzzi can run the weight and viscosity oil no matter if it -20 or +115.

Also feel free to answer the question do modern Guzzi engine with roller lifters and caytalic converters require the high zinc content as are in SG rated AND specified oils?"

Party on!

[kballowe]

Personally, I get the "Extra Virgin" oil - and I always try to get the "ROBUST" type.

Nothing is too good for my Guzzi !

 

[zisviper]

I use Fuchs Silkolene Pro 10W-60 with Liqui Moly Ceratec additive for my 2006 Breva 750. Way better than anything else...

[oldbike54]

I use Fuchs Silkolene Pro 10W-60 with Liqui Moly Ceratec additive for my 2006 Breva 750. Way better than anything else...

 Years ago my old Brit Bikes liked Silkolene .

 Dusty