Tubeless Conversion-- A Different Approach

[SIR REAL ED]

This is my rear wheel with 3M sealant applied on an Excel Aluminum rim and SS spokes and nipples.

Applied in three phases.

Looks great.  Did you notice a significant difference due to loss of unsprung weight?  Ditto on the sources, especially spokes!

[SIR REAL ED]

Do you mind telling me how you went about sourcing the rim, John?  I know beans about anything to do with wheel building.

Stamped on my Front Rim: DOT T 18X2.50 TLA 36
Rear Rim: DOT T 16X300 D 36

The rest of you please feel free to chime in too, and thanks again for riding along with me this far.

Sarah

Here you go Sarah.  I've heard good things about both Buchanans and Woodys.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=W_xYXqLeHNywytMPy4yR6AI&q=motorcycle+wheel+builders&oq=motorcycle+wheel+builders&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l6j0i22i30l4.5314.15124..15521...4.0..0.57.1269.29......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131j0i10.KDQXJih5vaQ&ved=0ahUKEwji96qFlfTnAhVcmHIEHUtGBC0Q4dUDCAs&uact=5

[greer]

I'm guessing/hoping the "36" stamped into the rims refers to the number of holes? (Hadn't gotten around to counting yet)  A quick glance at Buchanan's shows some options for 18X2.50, but 16X3.00??  I apologize if I am completely off track.

Sarah

[SIR REAL ED]

I'm guessing/hoping the "36" stamped into the rims refers to the number of holes? (Hadn't gotten around to counting yet)  A quick glance at Buchanan's shows some options for 18X2.50, but 16X3.00??  I apologize if I am completely off track.

Sarah

Sarah,

If I was going to go to the trouble of replacing the rear rim, I would go with a 17" rim and a more modern profile tire, assuming of course clearance exists.  17" also on the front.  Just my $0.02!

[greer]

Hadn't even thought of that.  I think I'd keep the 18" front though, I like the way it feels in gravel.  For now, I'll put new tubes in the tires and go with the Ride-On Sealant Charlie mentioned a page or so ago.  And keep on pondering.

Sarah

[wirespokes]

Sarah - why not get rid of the rust and seal them the conventional way? To remove the rust the easy way, soak them in white vinegar a day or two, then brush off. No real elbow grease required. Only a couple bucks a gallon, and even though discolored, will still work for the next de-rusting project.

[greer]

Well, I used a wire brush and a good amount of elbow grease and have the rear rim looking pretty good.  Some of the spoke heads still aren't perfectly clean though, vinegar would probably be the ticket there.  I've found myself getting impatient and just want to ride the thing, so I've got the inner tube and Ride-On sitting on the kitchen table at the moment.  What do you consider the conventional way of sealing the spokes?  My front tire is still holding perfectly steady with nothing but the Loctite.  I don't feel I can trust it though, because my rear did the same for a month, then began leaking.  Frustrating, for sure.  Thanks again for the input.

Sarah

[SIR REAL ED]

Well, I used a wire brush and a good amount of elbow grease and have the rear rim looking pretty good.  Some of the spoke heads still aren't perfectly clean though, vinegar would probably be the ticket there.  I've found myself getting impatient and just want to ride the thing, so I've got the inner tube and Ride-On sitting on the kitchen table at the moment.  What do you consider the conventional way of sealing the spokes?  My front tire is still holding perfectly steady with nothing but the Loctite.  I don't feel I can trust it though, because my rear did the same for a month, then began leaking.  Frustrating, for sure.  Thanks again for the input.

Sarah

Another thought... not that you need any additional options is a lot of road biased adventure bikes use a 2.5 x 19 front rim.  Might have to fit 1/2" tall spacers between the fork brace and fork lugs to get clearance.

When I finally get around to doing this (on a couple bikes), I will go with the 3M sealant and 3M sealing tape.  I've seen posts where either by itself seems to work well.  The few drops of Loctite sealing each spoke just seems to me like it requires too many stars to line up to work properly.

I've a big fan of visible fixes rather than invisible fixes.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I used just 100 percent GE silicone in a small squeeze tube on my 72 Eldorado but they are Aluminium rims with Stainless spokes.
My buddy who spent his working life glazing autos told me silicone will rot out steel (especially the stuff that smells of vinegar)
and told me to use the same sealant used on windscreens, a Urethane either Sika a Swiss product or Dow Corning Primerless
It stands to reason it should be good, water is even harder to keep out than air is to keep in.
I posted the boat sealant I am going to try as soon as I get my act together.
I found the 3M tape hard to purchase up here then only 3" wide so i'm going to try gorilla tape

[wirespokes]

What I meant by conventional is sealant on the inside like Roy suggests, as opposed to the unconventional approach of wicking loctite on spoke threads. I suppose the real conventional approach is a large air filled rubber bladder.

Naval jelly on the nipple dimples will also dissolve the rust and eliminate tons of elbow grease. 

[s1120]

I
I found the 3M tape hard to purchase up here then only 3" wide so i'm going to try gorilla tape

I was wondering how Flexseal tape compared to the 3M stuff...  Might be something to check out.

[greer]

What I meant by conventional is sealant on the inside like Roy suggests, as opposed to the unconventional approach of wicking loctite on spoke threads. I suppose the real conventional approach is a large air filled rubber bladder.

Naval jelly on the nipple dimples will also dissolve the rust and eliminate tons of elbow grease.

OK I see, thanks.  I think I'm going with tubes for now, meanwhile I'm getting smarter all the time thanks to the input from you folks.  By the way, my freshly sanded rear wheel, with 2 rounds of electrical tape over the spoke heads along with a new rim strip, weighs 17.5 lbs.  I can't recall ever weighing a wheel before so can't offer a comparison, but that just seems ridiculous.

Sarah

[John Warner]

. . . silicone will rot out steel (especially the stuff that smells of vinegar) . . .

I can vouch for that, and not just Steel I believe, I think it can cause Aluminium (and its Alloys) to corrode as well.

[s1120]

Well I did bolth mine with the 5200 and 3M tape, and they are holding great. Front has held air 100% since day one. rear lost 4 lbs the first day, and has some seep out of sealer from one of the nipples.. after refilling its been 100%.  Granted I did not use the fast cure...  so I believe parts of the rear were maybe not cured enough that first day. Holding air better then the old tubes were.

[Trialsman]

I also had really good luck with my V85 rims using the 3M 5200.  I checked the periodically the first couple months and now I have pretty much forgotten about it.  No change.  It is a pain and time consuming to do but it works well so the net result is a huge win.

[s1120]

I also had really good luck with my V85 rims using the 3M 5200.  I checked the periodically the first couple months and now I have pretty much forgotten about it.  No change.  It is a pain and time consuming to do but it works well so the net result is a huge win.

Oh it took forever to do!!!  But again I used the non quick dry 5200...  you could only do about 5 spoke nipples a day, so you didnt have the stuff sagging out of the holes.

[Trialsman]

Oh it took forever to do!!!  But again I used the non quick dry 5200...  you could only do about 5 spoke nipples a day, so you didnt have the stuff sagging out of the holes.

I used the slow cure as well, but used a different approach.  I would do 4-5 spokes then I put on a piece of the 6" wide shrink wrap plastic and smoothed it down.  Then I did the next group and so on until completed, all in one session.  I took a couple days until the plastic was ready to pull off.  I some places it still stuck so I wet my finger and smoothed the surface.  Immediately after I put on the tape and used a roller that I made up to press everything flat as well as a heat gun.  Very involved but I only wanted to do it once, and it paid off.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I finally got motivated to start my tubeless V7iii conversion.
I decided to start on the front as this tire has a lot of life left and I would rather not start on a new tread.
I know for a lot of you you wouldn't consider converting a wheel without a safety bead so I'm pleased to be able to say that my V7iii has safety beads on the rims or at least it does on the front, not that lack of would deter me, my 72 Eldorado has been fine for years.
I removed the front tire and cleaned up the wheel with Acetone followed by a scrubbing with a SS wire brush. The valve has an 8mm hole the rim is 6mm thick at the centre so it could easily be tapped 1/8 Gas for a tank valve but I will use valves with an 8mm body and "O" ring seal that I purchased on the internet.
In the past I have used 100% silicon from GE but this time I will try a boat sealant Sikaflex 291i
After applying 3 coats of the Sikaflex I applied a single layer of crystal clear Gorilla Tape to offer some mechanical protection then I put back the rubber tube protector that was over the spoke heads, I figure it can only help protect the sealant. The tire sealed straight away and popped onto the beads at 30 psi, so far no leaks.
I think the rear tire should be easier as there is more room to work.

[Vagrant]

any reason why you choose that instead of the 3M 5200 fast dry.

[s1120]

any reason why you choose that instead of the 3M 5200 fast dry.

I know when I was shopping, I could not find 5200 anywhere!! Not sure if that was a issue with him though.. I picked up a tube of Loctite PL marine I was going to use.. But ended up ordering the 5200 from Amazon..  Mine are done, but interesting to see how the Sikaflex works. I found pretty much nothing on using other brand Marine sealants.

[Vagrant]

i got a tube 3oz on amazon but they were out when i went to order another last week. but our local home depot has 14 on the shelf.
the 5200 need the directions read. no alcohol can be used to clean it keeps it from setting, proper setting temp is 70. not 60 not 90 but 70 etc.
I had about 5 spokes leaking from the silicone so I had to remove it all and did it with the 5200 fast dry. BTW fast dry is a lie! I still have one spoke that leaks a tiny bit. I can't fathom how or why I did a terrific job and it's way covered up. strangely the rear rim never leaked a bit and I had used silicone on it. both were different gasket maker type. one red one black.

[Penderic]

I saw these rim seals a few years back - lighter than a full size tube. I dont know if these work well/endure. FYI.





 

[Kiwi_Roy]

any reason why you choose that instead of the 3M 5200 fast dry.

Yes I planing to use the 3M product but I couldn't find it around town. I was visiting the local Yamaha dealer they also deal in boats and had the Sikaflex product in stock so why not try it eh!

[greer]

All good with that front tire, Roy?  If so, you're halfway there!

Sarah

[s1120]

Well my conversion has worked great so far. Havent lost a lb in the rear, and the front has dropped about 2-3 since I mounted them up over a month ago, and a few hundred miles of riding. I lost more then that with the tubes.. Im happy so far.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I should of said i just used tire levers and rim protectors to get the tire off, my tire guy gave me some of the lubricant he uses to brush on the tire to get it back on, just needed 2 tire irons.
I bounced it around on the concrete for a while before hitting it with air to encourage it to start seating and tested for leaks under water.
Update:
I also have the rear tire tubeless now, the same process carefully filling in the cavity around the spoke heads followed by another two thin layers of Sikaflex 291i followed by a layer of Crystal Clear Gorilla tape and the original rubber band.
I must say using the sealant in the standard size tube was much easier than the small toothpaste size tube.
I spooned the tire on aired it up and checked it for leaks under water.