Author Topic: Transatlantic Trophy Races  (Read 2019 times)

Offline Sheepdog

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Transatlantic Trophy Races
« on: January 03, 2020, 09:20:12 PM »
Actually called the Anglo-American Match races at the outset, this event captivated me as a young guy. It was all the same "Expert" riders I got to watch each March at the Astrodome, but at tracks like Mallory, Brands Hatch, and Oulton Park. I never got to attend, but ate up all the press I could find. I wore out two Triumph/BSA brochures in '71. Anyhow, I thought I'd share this ad for the races from the inaugural year. This became the John Player Transatlantic Trophy Series in time.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." John C. Maxwell

oldbike54

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Re: Transatlantic Trophy Races
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2020, 09:46:05 PM »
 Cal Rayborn showed 'em in '72 .

 Dusty

Offline normzone

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Re: Transatlantic Trophy Races
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2020, 10:07:31 PM »
Born and raised in San Diego !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_Rayborn
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Offline larrys

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Re: Transatlantic Trophy Races
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2020, 07:36:35 AM »
Great races! I saw them at Brands Hatch in '75. Barry Sheen gave the Yanks a real run for it.
Larry
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Offline bodine99

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Re: Transatlantic Trophy Races
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2020, 08:20:15 AM »
BSA/Triumph spent tons of money that should have used on product development.

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Transatlantic Trophy Races
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2020, 09:18:30 AM »
BSA/Triumph spent tons of money that should have used on product development.

Triumph/BSA developed some pretty cool offerings in 1971. The new Bonneville/TR6R frame, though met with scorn from the old schoolers, was a big improvement in handling. The engine was relatively unchanged and the brakes looked better than they worked...but the stiff frame, available 5-speed, and long travel (for the time) suspension were overdue upgrades. I'd say that Triumph's trust in traditional component suppliers like Amal, Lucas, and Girling was as much a cause of their eventual failure as anything else. Modern (Mikuni or Amal Premier) carbs, Hagon shocks, Progressive fork springs, and Pazon electronic ignition transforms those old OIF Meriden Triumphs...

« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 09:32:25 AM by Sheepdog »
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." John C. Maxwell

Offline larrys

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Re: Transatlantic Trophy Races
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2020, 12:08:33 PM »
BSA/Triumph spent tons of money that should have used on product development and modern tooling

FIFY. When I lived in England, '74-'76 I visited the Triumph factory in Meriden and the Norton factory in Wolverhampton. It was like going back a hundred years in time. All the tooling was ancient, and the foundries reminded me of someone's description of the gates of hell. Old designs, tooling and manufacturing techniques, poor metallurgy, crappy electrics, and abysmal reliability it is no wonder that the British motorcycle industry failed.
Larry
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Offline bodine99

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Re: Transatlantic Trophy Races
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2020, 04:05:34 PM »
Triumph/BSA developed some pretty cool offerings in 1971. The new Bonneville/TR6R frame, though met with scorn from the old schoolers, was a big improvement in handling. The engine was relatively unchanged and the brakes looked better than they worked...but the stiff frame, available 5-speed, and long travel (for the time) suspension were overdue upgrades. I'd say that Triumph's trust in traditional component suppliers like Amal, Lucas, and Girling was as much a cause of their eventual failure as anything else. Modern (Mikuni or Amal Premier) carbs, Hagon shocks, Progressive fork springs, and Pazon electronic ignition transforms those old OIF Meriden Triumphs...


Yea great!! P-39 frame a disaster. Complete engine could not be fitted in production, rocker boxes hit, 5-6 months wasted to redesign head, rocker boxes & air box. Your pix shows the oil fill. being behind the fuel tank less oil capacity they ran hot. frame made the seat height 3" taller than the 1970 so seat redesign needed, so if a buyer was under 6' ft.tall he didn't need to buy platform shoes to touch ground when stopped. New DRUM frt. brake design instead of a disc set up and it was fugly. fugly muffin design, fugly sidecovers, no fork gaiters on new frt.end. new Lucas switches funky, US dealers puked at the new non-Triumph look. The best part the new frame/oil tank it had weld splatter getting into the engines causing warranty issues. Tri-Cor & Duarte had to pressure flush the frames before the went to the dealers. When the 5 spds. finally got into production in late 71 they had teeth so brittle they broke off and caused more warranty issues. All this a result of BSA group management hiring the Slumberslade Hall Design studio. Then the Triumph labor unions and $$ demands and the huge waste of $$$ spent of the Ariel 3 tryke that flopped!! then the P-39 frame had to be redone to lower it. When Dennis Poore decided to close the Meridan plant the workers strike and Honda intro in 69 of the CB-750 doomed the Brit-bike industry. Thanks to Mr. Bloor Triumph's return in the early 90's there are now many very good OEM motorbike choices for all of us!!

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Transatlantic Trophy Races
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2020, 10:25:30 AM »
Yea great!! P-39 frame a disaster. Complete engine could not be fitted in production, rocker boxes hit, 5-6 months wasted to redesign head, rocker boxes & air box. Your pix shows the oil fill. being behind the fuel tank less oil capacity they ran hot. frame made the seat height 3" taller than the 1970 so seat redesign needed, so if a buyer was under 6' ft.tall he didn't need to buy platform shoes to touch ground when stopped. New DRUM frt. brake design instead of a disc set up and it was fugly. fugly muffin design, fugly sidecovers, no fork gaiters on new frt.end. new Lucas switches funky, US dealers puked at the new non-Triumph look. The best part the new frame/oil tank it had weld splatter getting into the engines causing warranty issues. Tri-Cor & Duarte had to pressure flush the frames before the went to the dealers. When the 5 spds. finally got into production in late 71 they had teeth so brittle they broke off and caused more warranty issues. All this a result of BSA group management hiring the Slumberslade Hall Design studio. Then the Triumph labor unions and $$ demands and the huge waste of $$$ spent of the Ariel 3 tryke that flopped!! then the P-39 frame had to be redone to lower it. When Dennis Poore decided to close the Meridan plant the workers strike and Honda intro in 69 of the CB-750 doomed the Brit-bike industry. Thanks to Mr. Bloor Triumph's return in the early 90's there are now many very good OEM motorbike choices for all of us!!

...and yet this welded frame was still a functional improvement over the old brazed version. This is not just my belief, but the consensus of the moto press of the day. These bikes were very poorly marketed, but excel at a particular sort of "all-roads" riding. The long-travel Ceriani lookalike forks, K70 Dunlops, and 13" shocks indicate Triumph's intent to offer a big-bore street scrambler. Current fashion of the day for rugged all-roads bikes called for drum brakes and conicals were popularized on the hare-scrambles tracks. Street duty was directed to the much anticipated Trident/Rocket 3. This P-39 frame became the more street-oriented twin-disc T-140, but those early models remain very entertaining on a paved or unpaved two-lane road.

Also, the relative rarity of this hybrid model makes it interesting to me. The all-metal side covers that are abhorred by pre-unit purists are an unique and functional design, the large flat seat is supportive and comfortable, the suspension is supple, the brakes aren't overpowering on loose surfaces, and yet that familiar 650/4 speed mill is pulling strong and belting out that familiar 360 degree report. It is important to me for sentimental reasons, too. Now 63 yo, I was a star struck lad when these bikes were introduced (check out the results of the 1971 Daytona 200) and I've always appreciated their part in the Meriden story. All that you reported is true...and that is part of what makes the 1971 Bonneville/TR6R significant to me.


(Internet photo)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 10:29:28 AM by Sheepdog »
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." John C. Maxwell

Rough Edge racing

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Re: Transatlantic Trophy Races
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 01:25:26 PM »
 The P39 frame is decent but the swingarm is flimsy and can get bent out of alignment from rough riding..And the downtube gets cracked by the swingarm mounts...
  Here I'm forcing the swingarm back into alignment, it bends easily...1979 T140D

         

    Typical modifications are a welded truss reinforcement. The swingarm is upside in the photo.

     

 

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