Bad News For Norton & Fans

[Moparnut72]

i think they are doing OK but I really can't say. However the V85TT is selling so well that had to put on a second shift at the Moto Guzzi factory. Vespas always seem to do well.
kk

Edit: Of course you guys know all that. I forgot I was here I thought for a minute I was on a Harley site. They have a similar thread going there too. Harley Tech Talk, a good bunch of guys over there. They don't bash other brands like a lot of the others do.

[Turin]

Piaggio is a completely different animal with their hands in several different countries including India and China.

[Big_Jim59]

Piaggio is a completely different animal with their hands in several different countries including India and China.

H-D has their hand in India and China as well. The Bar and Shield is a hot property in Asia. I saw were Harley announced a 350 for the Chinese market. Way back in the Great Depression H-D survived partially by licensing production to the Empire of Japan.

[Blaufeld66]

How financially strong is the Piaggio Group?

It is the biggest 2-wheels dealer of Europe from 50cc mopeds up to big bore bikes (for example, their 125cc mopeds are the standard used by Italian Postal Service), so Aprilia and Guzzi are in safe hands.

[mobiker]

The Norton dealer network paled in comparison to Guzzi. Last I checked Norton had 4 dealers in the US. IOW a lot less than Motus for Pete's sake.
Then there is all the fraud that was reportedly going on with pension funds. Reminds me of John DeLorean selling cocaine to keep his car company going. Then there were the repeatedly broken delivery dates to customers.
I like the Dreer Norton. He was a class act. Too bad he lost the company. Stuart Garner sounds like a con man.

[jacksonracingcomau]

The Norton dealer network paled in comparison to Guzzi. Last I checked Norton had 4 dealers in the US. IOW a lot less than Motus for Pete's sake.
Then there is all the fraud that was reportedly going on with pension funds. Reminds me of John DeLorean selling cocaine to keep his car company going.

But he didn’t get to sell it, stitched up to buy, stupidly cheap when he was desperate after car failed to comply
Because the cars snorted the white lines off the road!

[tommy2cyl]

What a complex web this Norton saga is.  Seems to be a mixture of incredibly hard work and dedication mixed with greed, lies, deceit and large government loans and promises.  There are so many side stories associated with this epic drama.   Stuart Garner set a land speed record in Bonneville on a rotary Norton to help give credence to Norton's racing heritage.  They were the first British manufacturer and winner of the IOM.  The attached articles in the thread describing the pensioners and customers with deposits or full payment of motorcycles let dangling in the wind.  Shameful.  Purchasing
Donnington Hall from British Airways in 2013 as Stuart Garner's personal residence had to put a big hit on available capital that should have been going directly to the Norton Motorcycle business.  Foolish. 

Question: Would it make any sense for Triumph to take it on?  Probably not, just hate to see Norton fade away into oblivion.

[oldbike54]

What a complex web this Norton saga is.  Seems to be a mixture of incredibly hard work and dedication mixed with greed, lies, deceit and large government loans and promises.  There are so many side stories associated with this epic drama.   Stuart Garner set a land speed record in Bonneville on a rotary Norton to help give credence to Norton's racing heritage.  They were the first British manufacturer and winner of the IOM.  The attached articles in the thread describing the pensioners and customers with deposits or full payment of motorcycles let dangling in the wind.  Shameful.  Purchasing
Donnington Hall from British Airways in 2013 as Stuart Garner's personal residence had to put a big hit on available capital that should have been going directly to the Norton Motorcycle business.  Foolish. 

Question: Would it make any sense for Triumph to take it on?  Probably not, just hate to see Norton fade away into oblivion.

 No . Just curious , why is preserving a name important ?

 Dusty

[rocker59]

No . Just curious , why is preserving a name important ?

 Dusty

Ask Polaris...   They basically transitioned the "Victory" brand to the "Indian" brand, and sales have gone up ten-fold.

"Norton" has some value.  Triumph could make good use of it as their "premium marque".

[oldbike54]

Ask Polaris...   They basically transitioned the "Victory" brand to the "Indian" brand, and sales have gone up ten-fold.

"Norton" has some value.  Triumph could make good use of it as their "premium marque".

 It would only dilute the Triumph marque . Remember , Polaris had to discontinue the Victory name .

 Still , I never have understood this fascination with names , I get that the marketing works , what is baffling is why it does .

 Dusty

[blackcat]

It would only dilute the Triumph marque . Remember , Polaris had to discontinue the Victory name .

 Still , I never have understood this fascination with names , I get that the marketing works , what is baffling is why it does .

 Dusty

If MG went out of business and someone decided to resurrect the brand but not maintain the name, would you be more inclined to buy the bike if it’s name became Bob’s Motorcycles as opposed to Moto Guzzi?   

[oldbike54]

If MG went out of business and someone decided to resurrect the brand but not maintain the name, would you be more inclined to buy the bike if it’s name became Bob’s Motorcycles as opposed to Moto Guzzi?

 I grew up riding and racing Triumphs , would bleed BRG if you cut me . Still haven't purchased a Bloor Triumph , even though they build a nice product . Look , I get it , marketing works , hip sells , buy a Harley Davidson , put on a pair of Levi Jeans , a Hein Gericke leather jacket . Still , it's just a name .

 Dusty

[drbone641]

  I would bleed BRG if you cut me 

 Dusty

As I sort through my past cars in my head, I had to laugh and smile at that description. I had a Lotus back in Las Vegas that I bought while it was stuck sideways in a culvert, placed there by floods. After we got it home and started dismantling it, I discovered it was a JP Special paint job over an original BRG car. I was delighted and furious, that someone had trashed the BRG,

[rocker59]

It would only dilute the Triumph marque . Remember , Polaris had to discontinue the Victory name .

 Still , I never have understood this fascination with names , I get that the marketing works , what is baffling is why it does .

 Dusty

I don't think so.  Norton MSRP $18,000 to $24,000 would be above Triumph's range.  I think it would be an interesting thing to see, but I'll bet Triumph doesn't even give it a thought.  They have good focus on their own brand and what they do.  I don't think they would risk trying to add Norton to the family.

Victory was quirky and interesting, but just couldn't find its way.  Polaris decided that two brands competing in the same market space wasn't going to work for them, and Victories weren't selling anyway, so the path forward with the Indian brand alone became clear.

[oldbike54]

 Shucks , now I am tickled because of this idea

                             


                                                Wild Bob Chase

 A web site dedicated to all things Bob .

     
                                          The Wild Bob Chase National

                                              in Cedar Vale KS

                                "Bob" , the official motorcycle of Cedar Vale

                                   

 Sorry , I'll be quiet now .

 OK , one more , Bobzissta .

 

  Dusty

                               

[tommy2cyl]

Dusty ".......why is preserving a name important?"

You probably don't place much value in cemeteries. 

[oldbike54]

Dusty ".......why is preserving a name important?"

You probably don't place much value in cemeteries. 

 Odd comparison , fact is , neither do most folks unless their ancestors are buried in a particular one .

 Please don't bury me
 down in that cold cold ground

  Dusty

[Muzz]

 Please don't bury me
 down in that cold cold ground

  Dusty

Any day above ground is generally a good day.   Keep on keeping on Dusty!

[wirespokes]

Dusty ".......why is preserving a name important?"

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Conversely (sort of) calling a non-rose a rose doesn't make it a rose.

I understand where you're coming from Dusty and agree - especially since the first entity died and a second took over after quite a space in between. The only continuity is the name. But that which it names is now different. Somehow people find it important.

[poorBob]

Shucks , now I am tickled because of this idea

                                                Wild Bob Chase

 A web site dedicated to all things Bob .

     
                                          The Wild Bob Chase National

                                              in Cedar Vale KS

                                "Bob" , the official motorcycle of Cedar Vale

 Sorry , I'll be quiet now .

 OK , one more , Bobzissta .

  Dusty                           

See? Now I feel obligated to look....   

[tommy2cyl]

Just watched a video on YouTube:  The Scandalous Demise of Norton Motorcycles!  What Happened.  As is always the case, more than just delinquent tax dollars involved, and pension funds.  According to the video, here are the numbers so far, in British pounds.

300 K in back taxes, 14 million in pension funds, 5 million in US customer deposits, 16 million in UK customer deposits, 20 million in Japanese
customer deposits, 5 million in Chinese development and manufacturing of engines, 4 million is UK Grants, 750 K to UK banks. 

Total: $65.05 million in the red.   The person who worked with Stuart Garner who arranged to "manage" the pension fund money has already been indicted
on fraud charges.  That "management" was supposed to be for 5 years and then returned back to the pensioners.  Supposedly Mr. Garner said he wasn't aware
of the 5 year time frame which expired, I believe in 2018.  No funds were ever returned to the pensioners to date. 

Can't imagine a US or European mark would try to save this catastrophe.  Probably only a Chinese deep pocket concern would take it on.  Or, it could become Bob's Cycles.  Might be an opening in marketing department for you Dusty if this should come to pass.

[oldbike54]

 ^^^I'll pass 

 Dusty

[Muzz]

^^^I'll pass 

 Dusty

I'll just take my Bobuzzi for a wee ride, just 'coz I can.

[oldbike54]

I'll just take my Bobuzzi for a wee ride, just 'coz I can.

 

 Dusty

[Bulldog9]

Came across this today. Pretty deep rabbit hole it seems. https://www.superbike.co.uk/article/norton-was-it-a-fraud-from-the-start

[radguzzi]

Keanu Reeves to the rescue...? 

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/398836/weekend-wtf-keanu-reeves-save-norton/amp/?fbclid=IwAR0hAM97QuWfTHjZ5aMmMMYhnZsvvBk23ds31U33gka7q5auYz2J2CRLeM8

Opine...

[tommy2cyl]

Bulldog:  Thanks for the link. Interesting backstory from Stuart Tillman. Doesn't get any better than straight from someone directly involved.  Stuart Garner is a sociopath.  He needs to be removed from society.

[JJ]

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/the-collapse-of-norton-motorcycles?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=boosted-posts|tpfn-content&utm_content=common-tread-news&utm_term=the-collapse-of-norton-motorcycles-022620-|tpfn-content&fbclid=IwAR0FUZWHdvslSOtK-rG9VYquJ3NIMUASFIsPvg2ecI5AGsI11WNPNPBhXig