what is the oldest CAR that is modern day practical? NGC

[lazlokovacs]

With apologies to SmithSwede who just started a great thread, I wondered if you guys would care to answer the same question but this time about cars? 

I'm interested as I'm currently looking for a historic vehicle (ie. over 40 years old) that is real world friendly

here goes....



What is the *oldest* car you can think of that would still be honest-to-goodness realistic and practical for real world, daily or regular use, on modern roadways?  Be specific about make and model.

Some criteria.   It absolutely needs reasonably decent brakes so you don’t die just because you are driving an antique.  If you wouldn’t drive it regularly because the brakes suck, exclude it from the list.

Needs to be able to run at least 75 mph to keep up with urban traffic.   I’m not talking about an old car that is capable of merely toodling along on country roads on a Sunday afternoon.   Think regularly merging onto a Dallas expressway without constantly worrying about being run over.

Needs to be reasonably reliable.   Assume you need to drive it to work most every day.    And need to have it start and run without too much hassle.   

I said daily or regular use—so don’t suggest something that might only hold up for once a month trips.   Or the annual old car parade downtown. Or only last 3,000 miles before major wrenching or an overhaul.

I can envision lots of stuff that fits this description from the 1970s.  And 1960s.  But before that, I’m not so sure.

Enlighten me.   

Can we at least draw boundaries to the question?   Is it clear that there nothing from the 1930s that could handle this mission profile?

1940s? 

[s1120]

So many choices!!  Really the best era to build a driver is the early 70's. Pick your brand..  Buy then you have most cars having disk front brakes, power brakes, and in a lot of cases power steering. You have some good starts of safety devices..  Collapsible steering colom, padded dashes, breakaway mirrors, door bars, shoulder harness belts..  Its also before the REAL sketchy first gen smog controls hit. With small tuning changes, you can get the powertrains running pretty strong, and efferent. Build quality was OK.. As a example I have a 72 ford LTD convertible. Its really a dream on the roads. Its a old car...  But stops well with its big 11" disk breaks. It has 351ci engine, thats pretty powerful but not a gas hog.  I did some small mods to it..  Small cam, and cam chain that times it correctly. [a lot of 70's cars retarded the cam at the start of the emission control years] It has some long legged gears [Guzzi content..] so lopes along at 75mph on the highway making just over 20mpg. Handling is pretty good.. Updated to good gas shocks. [KYB GasAjust... I put them on all my old cars.] and poly bushings for the sway bar..  Its a nice controlled ride... 

[blu guzz]

many people are doing "resto mods" which are old bodies on new frames.  essentially you get a modern car with a classic body.  this is pretty expensive for the full monty.  but there are lots of disc brake conversion kits, power brake kits and suspension items to update older cars.  if you are reaching back to the 60s and late 50s, 12 volt conversions kits.  but, i agree with the first poster if you want something closer to turn key.  beware, most of these were rust buckets since the technology was not very advanced in the early 70s.

[Beowulf]

This May be a little off the beaten path but i believe this would be a simple reliable older vehicle. Not sure about top speed but it will last. https://images.app.goo.gl/5rDXjwZrPfjTSsG39

I got a thing for old sweptlines with a slant six.

[Bill929]

I still use my 1968 Jeep J3000 truck regularly, but not daily.  It does not have any creature comforts and certainly drives like a 60s truck, but it hauls feed, shavings, brush and other stuff very well.  I have no problem cruising at 60-65, but I would not use it at 75 on an interstate highway.  I rebuilt the engine (original block, but new pistons, rings and valves) when I bought it and installed a new front axle (to fix the 4wd), but it has it has been very reliable since (4 years).  Gas mileage is atrocious - I average slightly less than 10 mpg - V8, 4WD, 4 speed manual, PS and PB. 

[Beowulf]

I still use my 1968 Jeep J3000 truck regularly, but not daily.  It does not have any creature comforts and certainly drives like a 60s truck, but it hauls feed, shavings, brush and other stuff very well.  I have no problem cruising at 60-65, but I would not use it at 75 on an interstate highway.  Gas mileage is atrocious - I average slightly less than 10 mpg - V8, w/ 4 speed manual, PS and PB. 

I love it! Had a 77 j10 jeep pickup great truck but never took it above 60. The gas mileage was more like gallons per mile.

[Furbo]

Laz,

you've listed alot of criteria, but the big one you haven't said is how much $$$  you'd be willing to spend.

Early 70's Mercedes are light years ahead of their US contemporaries in build quality and are generally reliable as rocks. Initial purchase of a nice model will set you back $25-$50K (and the SL's will really set you back $75-$100K) and parts are expensive but generally available as is service if you're in a major area.

At the Other End:

The 71-73 Super Beetles are hard to beat. With those years you get the MacPhearson Strutt suspension, front discs, and greater cargo space of the Super, but retain the classic flat windshield and dash of the beetle making radio upgrades a snap and simplifying wiring issues. 75mph is doable and because they're light, acceleration is decent. Go with something that some one else has already poured their heart/soul/$$ into and get the best you can find. $10-$15K should buy a pristine unmolested and perhaps partially restored example and for another $1.5K you can install a modern AC that won't steal all your ponies. Quality parts are widely available, and if you can work on an older Guzzi, this will be very familiar.

[bad Chad]

The problem with this type of question is not the question, but the answers.

What would work for one guy, say, living in rule OK, driving daily on open country roads is far different than someone using the car as a daily 30 mile commute to work through Chicago, ATL etc, traffic.  Situations where you might need to run 80mph for 15 minutes, followed by 30 min of stop and go, and 15 min of anything goes, and they do it again on the way home, five days a week, in -10 F to 110F depending on the month.

Something that is reasonably reliable won't cut it for many, it has to be very reliable.  75mph is not fast enough if you travel major expressways during rush.   This also applies to the moto thread.

[Zoom Zoom]

I've had certain cars that I'm partial to but have owned stuff from all the big 3.

One of the cars I has was a '72 Duster. Slant 6, automatic, power steering. Not a speed demon by any means, but a slant 6 is a easy to work on, reliable motor. I also get 25 mpg on a regular basis. Nice looking body style that you can spruce up with a set of wheels if you want. I wish I hadn't sold it.

John Henry

[Deno]

I just bought an 87 Bertone X1/9 (Fiat) for just this purpose. I was going to say my Fiat 850 couple but I do not have the patience to wait for it to hit 75mph.

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

I would second the late 60s - early 70’s. You can find inexpensive non collectible cars or trucks for a reasonable price. If it’s properly sorted I wouldn’t have a problem driving one across country. For me personally tho, I’d roll a very early 80’s volvo 240.

[blackcat]

Easily hits 75mph so you can get to the next gas station. Engine and transmission parts are readily available as they made lots of these parts and the aftermarket sources are plentiful. Disc brakes make it easy to stop if you go to aftermarket discs, so you don't have to worry about stopping on those freeways.  It can haul a bike in the back and full sheets of plywood,etc., though guys get mad at you as they load the same material in their $70K pick up trucks.  While it is a classic, the prices are not crazy because you either like them or hate them, but they are prone to rust so I'd look for a southern vehicle. Open the smuggler's box to make sure it isn't going to fall in half after purchase. Mine has an electronic ignition box so I don't have to mess with the stupid points every few months.

[DesertPilot]

My '64 MGB would have filled the bill nicely.  Economical (30 MPG), practical (used it to carry a boat, drove it across country with all my then-meager belongings several times), good brakes (unless it was raining, in which case they may no longer have been all that good, but they did become exciting brakes), easy to repair (you could pull the head and replace the valves in 8 hrs with tools you might have around the shed, don't ask me how I know this), got above 100 MPH easily enough (we liked that part, the CHPs expressed some disapproval), and used prices are still just a few thousand.  A '64 Chevy Impala could manage too.  Less economical, perhaps, but as far as reliability goes, a friend of mine ran one as a farm car with two missing rods, a hole in the sump, and no oil in the engine (y3es, these three phenomena were connected  ).

Most 50's Detroit products could also handle the mission, but most ones in running order have become collectors' items by now.

Before that, there are plenty of exotic cars that have the necessary performance ('think 'Red Barchetta', but watch out for the gleaming alloy aircars?)... if one has the necessary wealth to hire the machinists to fabricate the parts to keep it on the road.

[JJ]

1967 Ford Mustang...this gets driven about 2500 miles per year...and has 95K miles on the "original" 289 V8 motor!

[Zoom Zoom]

Easily hits 75mph so you can get to the next gas station. Engine and transmission parts are readily available as they made lots of these parts and the aftermarket sources are plentiful. Disc brakes make it easy to stop if you go to aftermarket discs, so you don't have to worry about stopping on those freeways.  It can haul a bike in the back and full sheets of plywood,etc., though guys get mad at you as they load the same material in their $70K pick up trucks.  While it is a classic, the prices are not crazy because you either like them or hate them, but they are prone to rust so I'd look for a southern vehicle. Open the smuggler's box to make sure it isn't going to fall in half after purchase. Mine has an electronic ignition box so I don't have to mess with the stupid points every few months.

Ya never know when you might need a shrubbery to get passage.

ZZ

[LowRyter]

I'd guess that about any full size car or truck post WWII would do for basic transportation and true for many cars pre-war.  It will start, run 60 mph, have lights, wiper and heater.  Careful of the brakes in congested traffic.  Otherwise, I think it's day to day driveable.  Of course 40k miles and you're going to do an overhaul on it.

[Don G]

That is not shrubbery, its Caminoflage!   DonG

[blackcat]

 With shrubbery and Guzzi content

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I'd probably choose a ('59-'68) Mercedes W111 "Fintail" with six cylinder gas engine and manual transmission. Well built, durable, easy to maintain, capable of sustained high speeds, comfortable, well-equipped, four wheel disc brakes. Driver quality examples are still reasonably priced.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1962-mercedes-benz-220s-2/

[Deno]

I forgot about the Elcaminos. That is the way to go.

[Lannis]

and used prices are still just a few thousand.  .....

For a running chrome bumper MGB?    A few thousand whats?   Not dollars, unless we disagree on what the word "few" implies .... !!!

I loved my MGBs, wouldn't mind having another.   They're what you said.

Lannis

[rocker59]

Anything from the mid-1960s onward...

But 1972 was the pinnacle!

[Turin]

I would go with a 1955 chevy w/ a V8.  12 volt electrics and you can get mechanical parts at any autozone or Checker/O'reilly parts store.

[twowheeladdict]

I've had certain cars that I'm partial to but have owned stuff from all the big 3.

One of the cars I has was a '72 Duster. Slant 6, automatic, power steering. Not a speed demon by any means, but a slant 6 is a easy to work on, reliable motor. I also get 25 mpg on a regular basis. Nice looking body style that you can spruce up with a set of wheels if you want. I wish I hadn't sold it.

John Henry

Al Bundy's car. 

[nbags]

early/mid 70s good brakes ok performance easy to work on and you can get a mid or full size for not a lot of coin

[cliffrod]

Even though the pending 4 speed swap & new trunk pan is now delayed by my V700 project, my red 1967 Ford Galaxie 500 has an original great-running 428, C6 with factory a/c, power steering, disc brakes and a bench seat.   The disc brakes and added 1971 Police rear sway bar makes a big difference in modern traffic.    Same equipment as the one I built & drove for 15+ years that looked just like the white one in the background, except this one is a original 428 car.  My absolute favorite car, thrilled to have it-





The biggest issue with a huge car like this nowadays is how parking spaces have narrowed. 

Meanwhile, my well-worn & rusty 1973 Cheyenne longbed is fantastic, well past 200K on the original engine and has been my primary vehicle for many years.  Bought from original owner for $350 in 1998. Still gets nearly 18mpg on the interstate and is driven everywhere.   If & when it finally dies a permanent death, I've got another one in better shape waiting.   

My 1962 Triumph TR3B is even older with disc brakes.  Aside from the regulator sticking occasionally & then wrecking the generator, it was always very 100% reliable through high school & well into college.  It's been in the family since Feb 64.  But I parked it 30 yrs ago & it's further down the list to put back on the road.

No daily commute to work beyond walking down back to the studio, so kinda out of that scene.

Edit- my wife did ask if I mentioned that she had to take my truck this afternoon when she went to the middle school with her registered educational ambassador opossum for an educational program.  Her 4Runner needs a new dist cap & wires and wasn't happy with today's snow/sleet wet weather.  The old truck had no such issues.

[Shorty]

What year did they mandate a dual master cylinder for cars? 1967? That would be the oldest I'd want to go. Around here, air conditioning is a must. So, without modification, a '67 or newer car with plenty of power and AC. That leaves a lot of options.

[cliffrod]

What year did they mandate a dual master cylinder for cars? 1967? That would be the oldest I'd want to go. Around here, air conditioning is a must. So, without modification, a '67 or newer car with plenty of power and AC. That leaves a lot of options.

In the USA, 1967 was the first year for dual chamber master cylinder as standard equipment.  My car also has first series KH disc brakes, introduced on Fords in 1965/66 depending upon who you ask.

However, our TR3B has an original master cylinder with single top cap that screws off to reveal a central tube within a larger outer can to provide two separate chambers.  I always understood it to be a dual chamber m/c that is concentric instead of side by side, but maybe not. (?)  Disc brakes were standard equipment on the TR3 series, originally released in 1955.  No idea what MG, Healys, etc had, if this m/c was required in England or just what Triumph did on their own.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

What year did they mandate a dual master cylinder for cars? 1967? That would be the oldest I'd want to go. Around here, air conditioning is a must. So, without modification, a '67 or newer car with plenty of power and AC. That leaves a lot of options.

I'm guessing a fair number of cars had dual circuit braking before '67. Mercedes had them in '60.

[travelingbyguzzi]

Spend some time on the Hemmings website. Thumbs up on the ‘72 LTD. Also undervalued are the 2nd generation Cougars. Early to mid-60s T-birds are a good value. All the bells and whistles, many with 390 fe engines.
ElCamino’s are fun. Early Barracudas! The world is your oyster.

Bill Lovelady     IS
Eskimo Spy