Author Topic: Nevada 2012 - shaft and splines care (Read 3103 times)

Francek · « **on:** February 11, 2020, 10:13:09 AM »

Hello,

my father is the new owner of MG Nevada 2012, it has 18500kms on the clock, after first owner with full service history.
I'm servicing my bikes myself and I have pretty good service skills for those years with bikes I think, but I never had shaft driven bike.
I would like to know what service this bike needs regarding shaft drive. I know I need hypoid gear oil (85W-140) (part 18 in second picture), but I read
about re-greasing splines and I'm not sure which splines should be greased regularly. I did not find this information in service manual.
How often should I re-grease them ? Today I bought lithium based with MoS2 Shell grease (NLGI2) for this purposes. Does universal joint also requires re-greasing?
I know I need to grease red circled splines, but what este ?

Thanks for any advices!

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2020, 12:01:35 PM »

7, 3, and 2. If you are feeling ambitious some day, a little spooge on the u joint. Small blocks, like earth girls, are easy..

this is the berries.. really tenacious, won't fling off.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1914

Francek · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2020, 02:40:47 PM »

Thank you!

So, I don't have to dissasembly bevel gear if I get it right ? How about swingarm shafts ?

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2020, 04:31:53 PM »

Quote from: Francek on February 11, 2020, 02:40:47 PM

Thank you!

So, I don't have to dissasembly bevel gear if I get it right ? How about swingarm shafts ?

Nope. Nope.

malik · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2020, 04:49:38 PM »

No. When you remove the bevel box, all the bits that need greasing are just sitting there. Don't lose the spring (6) which sits in its recess inside the drive shaft spline. I re-grease mine each time I change the rear tyre. Wheel off, bevel box off, drain any water out, grease up, bevel box back on. Be careful when you take off the the bevel box that the swingarm doesn't just drop - it can break or bend the gear linkage rod sitting half an inch away - lower it gently.

Poke a torch up the swingarm to see if there is rust on the drive shaft. Rust won't impair its function, but it is unsightly. If it were mine & the splines are dry or rusted & there is rust on the shaft, I'd take the swingarm off (a delightfully easy job, both off & on) and check the uni joint, clean & grease the shaft, check the rubber boot for any holes (other than those two big ones), slits or cracks & replace. That job then shouldn't have to be done again until next time the engine needs to come out. Which, in the normal course of events, could be a vey long time.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2020, 05:51:29 PM »

Quote

(a delightfully easy job, both off & on)

Like I said..

SmithSwede · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2020, 09:41:04 PM »

My Parts 7, 3, and the one that 3 fits into all failed at 80,000 someodd miles on my 2013 V7 Stone. The input shaft to the final drive was fine, and so was the output shaft from the transmission.

I had lubricated all this stuff each tire change with Guard Dog moly GD525 spline lube, which is supposed to be great stuff. It is a nasty black grease that doesn’t fling off

But what I didn’t do was clean off all the old lube before adding new grease. It all looked good and greasy to me, so I just slathered on more grease.

I was told that was a mistake. That I instead needed to clean all the splines down to bare metal and then re-grease.

So that’s what I’m doing now. Bronze brush, solvent, compressed air, then brand new grease. Time will tell.

I’d like them to last 500,000 miles, but maybe they just don’t.

On the other hand, I got all the replacement parts I needed for about $300. $300 in parts for 80,000 miles service is not bad compared to chains and sprockets.

Be on the look out for water in the swing arm. That is not good for these components, and it eventually gets into the final drive, contaminating that small amount of oil. I had to seal the rubber boot on the front right side of the swing arm with silicone sealant. After I did that, I got zero water in the swing arm even if I rode all day long in pouring rain.

chuck peterson · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2020, 08:00:34 AM »

Thanks for that smithswede! Good stuff I did not know..

pyoungbl · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2020, 09:53:02 AM »

Just to be clear, the swingarm has two stub axles that go into bearings. The bearings are (as I recall) sealed. As a general rule you won't find any problems with the bearings or stub axles but it can't hurt to slap a bit of grease on the parts if only to keep them from rusting.

SmithSwede · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2020, 10:55:03 AM »

For those curious about the failure mode.

The last time I changed the tire, these parts seemed ok, or at least they fitted back together smoothly. There was no obvious play or slop in the assembly. All seemed fine.

Shortly before I needed to replace the rear tire again, the bike started to feel like it was chattering and rough moving off from a stopped position. Mild vibration while running. Not very noticeable or alarming at the time. The final drive unit started to leak oil, and that leak was pretty obvious. I thought the problem was the final drive, or at least its seal.

When I removed the rear tire and went to re-grease these driveshaft components, I could not separate them at all. Had to hammer them apart. The splines had worn into almost a knife edge surface for most of the length. Definitely would not move smoothly back and forth.

So there things can go from seeming normal to failing relatively quickly--7,500 miles or so. I suppose this means these components have some kind of surface hardening, and once the wear gets past that surface hardening, the wear rate increases dramatically.

I replaced them and the chattering feeling went away. The final drive leak also stopped completely.

I now theorize that these worn components set up some kind of vibration into the final drive unit, and the seal could not keep the oil in with that vibration going on. But the seal was ok---I haven't had even a drop of final drive oil leak in the last 13,000 miles.

Francek · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2020, 10:58:23 AM »

Thank you for advices !

One last question I think. In service manual for Nevada there is Agip G R SM grease with MoS2. I cannot find this grease so I bought equivalent from Shell: SHELL GADUS S2 V220AD which contains 3% of MoS2. Lots of people on drive shaft bike forums tells that you need higher MoS2 part (30-65% I read) in grease (paste).
In lot of MoS2 grases you cant fint content of MoS2 and lots of people use them on splines.
Can you help with this ? Is that SHELL grease OK for splines ?

malik · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2020, 02:18:00 PM »

Perhaps no longer available. The later 2TB small blocks specify Agip SM2 - a lithium grease with molybdenum for bearings - NLGI 2 - if that's any help. I'd say any lithium grease with molybdenum would be adequate. I use a Penrite product, but Penrite are local to Oz.

Francek · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2020, 02:33:11 PM »

Yes, it is Agip SM2, but I found the name of grase is SM now. Shell I bought is also NLGI2 with molybdenum disulfid like Agip.

malik · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2020, 02:45:20 PM »

Sweet. That should work fine. And once you've finished that batch, in 15-20 years, you can always try something else, if unsatisfied.

SIR REAL ED · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2020, 04:47:51 PM »

Thanks for all the excellent tips mates. I am just getting ready to do this on my 2007 Nevada. In the past I have had excellent results using ANTI-SEIZE from SAF-T-EZE. Supposedly good for 500,000 psi!!!!!! In other words, better than any steel shaft you could put it on!!! Who needs case hardening?

https://www.saftlok.com/safteze/moly.htm

Francek · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2020, 01:05:42 PM »

Hello guys, I separated bevel drive and here is a result. I cant see shaft splines but I see hypoid gear :D.

The part which should stay on bevel drive stayed on swing arm, I am afraid of spilnes shape. How I take away that part?

Thanks

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2020, 02:23:47 PM »

It doesn't normally come apart like that. I would try rapping sideways on the bearing carrier with a copper hammer. It should come apart at the split line.. maybe it is glued on with gasket goo? Or just corroded together a bit?

malik · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2020, 02:37:27 PM »

I don't think it's a big drama. That round bit (the bevel gear shaft with its bearings & spacers) usually stays in the bevel box. Some firm taps on the square flange (31 in the parts manual) with a plastic hammer should free it, but do support the swingarm - you don't want the forward edge of the swingarm breaking or bending the gearshift linkage rod. Hopefully, nobody has put any sticky stuff on the flange. If they have, it should be cleaned off & replaced with a smear of grease. There are no gaskets either side of the flange faces. That section should go back into the bevel box as a unit, and mate with the big round bevel gear. It's all pretty loose until it's tightened together with those 4 nuts. At present, the only thing keeping the oil in the bevel box is gravity. Lay it down anywhere & most of that 170ml will seep out. You were going to replace the final drive oil anyway, were you not?

If the flange doesn't free itself easily, you may have to take the swingarm off to work with it conveniently on the bench. You remove the brake lines with their brackets from the underside of the swingarm (2 nuts), loosen the hose clamp around the boot, remove the swingarm pin covers, and wind out the pins, collecting the washer on the RHS between the swingarm and the gearbox cover. When you pull the whole swingarm back and off, you are likely to leave the drive shaft behind. It just pulls out with a bit of a wiggle. Keep any eye on the spring in the small end of the drive shaft. It's only held in its recess by grease. I stick that spring in a labelled plastic bag, so it doesn't get lost.

Another advantage of pulling swingarm is the free access it gives to the gearbox cover, the gear linkages, the clutch operating arm and the outer body of the clutch push rod. Easier to clean up & check it all out, and adjust things. If you do so, some photos would be useful.

Let us know how it turns out.

This is the last drive shaft I pulled out, the colour is partly red bulldust from the Flinders Ranges, but mostly rust. It cleaned up OK, and greased up well, is now back in place.

Mal

Francek · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2020, 02:56:10 PM »

Thanks guys ! I will take care of it in the weekend and let you know.

Francek · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2020, 04:09:24 PM »

It's out, after friday billiard evening (11pm here) I went to garage try it. With rubber hammer and few firm taps it fell appart. Splines like new, only a bit of rust :)). Thanks guys!

malik · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2020, 04:23:11 PM »

Muzz · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2020, 10:08:21 PM »

Quote from: SmithSwede on February 11, 2020, 09:41:04 PM

But what I didn’t do was clean off all the old lube before adding new grease. It all looked good and greasy to me, so I just slathered on more grease.

I must admit, that is what I have been doing Prescott. Next time I will do as you suggest. i have been using a moly impregnated CV grease. Seems to stay on. It has had halved service periods on the greasing as I have had the gearbox out more times that I have had tires on the rear.

Francek · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2020, 01:19:50 AM »

Job done, pretty easy job. Posting some photos. Thank you guys for help :).

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2020, 10:08:10 AM »

Thanks for the update.

Muzz · « **Reply #24 on:** February 24, 2020, 02:10:22 PM »

Francek, just as an aside, you mentioned the bearings earlier in the side of the gearbox and asked if anything needs doing to them, the answer being that they are sealed and they don't need touching.

When I spoke to my bearing man he actually expressed some surprise that they were using boggy old 6000 series ball race bearings in that situation, as they are designed to be in a spinning situation, and in that situation they definitely are not.

When I first spun mine by hand they felt a bit notchy, but freed up.

I thought long and hard, and ended up carefully prising off the outer cover with a pick and absolutely filling the cavity with grease, then giving them a good spin and replacing the cover. My thinking is that over a prolonged period of use the ball will squeeze out the grease and wear on that small part where there is such limited movement. I figure that bulk grease and a fairly regular spin of the bearing inner will ultimately prolong it's life.

I may be wrong, but that's my thinking. So far so good.

malik · « **Reply #25 on:** February 24, 2020, 02:11:35 PM »

Attaboy. Nice to see only minimal rust on the drive shaft, too.

Francek · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2020, 03:05:42 PM »

Quote from: Muzz on February 24, 2020, 02:10:22 PM

Francek, just as an aside, you mentioned the bearings earlier in the side of the g...........

Yes, I was very surprised when I saw classic ball bearing on swing arm, when side forces affects a bearing. But I dont care about them, they are like 5€ for both new :D

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Author Topic: Nevada 2012 - shaft and splines care (Read 3103 times)