Stelvio ticking louder than usual

[MotoZA]

Hi all,

This is not my first post, not sure what happened to my profile, I had to re-register. I've not been here in a while (actually, that's not true, I've been lurking )

Anyway, I need some advise before I tear into my Stelvio. Lately (maybe the last 4 weeks or so), the bike has been noisier than usual on the right side, but only between about 1900 rpm to 3000 rpm, if the revs rise it is 'quite' (like the usual pleasant Guzzi whining and clatter). It sounds like a loose rattling chain (cam chain?), but I can also hear "loose tappets"/load ticking from time to time. It's not a dogga-dogga sound, thankfully, but it sounds different than usual, so I'm a bit concerned. Well, I'm more than a bit concerned.

I did some research and found a post on this forum (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=88493.0) about a similar sounding issue on a Norge (also a 2012 model, like my Stelvio). It looks like my symptoms (my bike has done 65500 km). So I'm going to remove the sump and flange plate this weekend. Let's assume the gasket is bust like the pics in another post shows (on the inside around the port as shown in the post: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=87885.0), can I replace it with a self-made Flexoid gasket? I know how to make these (used to help my dad knock and cut these out as a child).

Whilst I've got the bike open, how do I check that the oil pump functions as it should? I read about removing injectors and putting your finger over the inlet hole of the oil passage. Can someone explain this oil pump check to me in a bit more detail, please?

[bigbikerrick]

I read Pete Ropers warning about the gasket above the sumo spacer possibly causing an oil pressure loss,and I would check that for sure.
MG Cycle offers a thicker replacement for that gasket, that is listed as a replacement, Thats what I would use as I have found these gaskets to be of superior quality to the black paper ones.
Rick.

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_174&products_id=34

[John Warner]

If it is the Gasket at fault, just make your own.
If you've done them in the past, it'll be no problem.
I'd leave a bit more 'meat' around all the holes, it doesn't matter if it's not a perfectly 'tight-to-the-edges' fit like the genuine ones.
Use good quality Gasket material.

[lucian]

Does your 2012 have roller tappets or flat ?  2012 was the year the change over was made so if yours is an early model it could have the doomed flat tappets which could be your problem. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Does your 2012 have roller tappets or flat ?  2012 was the year the change over was made so if yours is an early model it could have the doomed flat tappets which could be your problem.

That was my first thought, too. Saw the title and thought, "Uh oh.."

[rschrum]

Yes, pop a valve cover and check the tappets. If your not sure snap a couple pictures and post them.

[Lannis]

Does your 2012 have roller tappets or flat ?  2012 was the year the change over was made so if yours is an early model it could have the doomed flat tappets which could be your problem.

The "loose tappet" comment about the sound is worrying, but the "RPM dependent" part sounds like something besides a hosed tappet.

I'll wager that the OP is fully aware of the flat/roller status of his bike either by serial number or conversion ....

Lannis

[stubbie]

As above for engine rattles. As to you having to re register, there was an upgrade last year and if you didn't reply to the moderators post your account was probably dumped.

[MotoZA]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm 90% sure mine has roller tappets (going according to engine number, or VIN number, can't remember now, but I checked a few years ago), but then I don't know what the flat tappets look like. I'll post some pics in any case.

Sump is off, still have to take the flange off, but ran out of time today. Sump is clean inside, some VERY thin black residue on the inside of the sump in some places, but it wipes off with no efffort. Strainer is clean, no small metal bits in there, thankfully.

To be continued...

[lucian]

Rollers;

Flats;

[MotoZA]

Yup, I have roller tappets.

Thanks!

[HarveyMushman]

I’d wager on a failed sump gasket bleeding pressure from the chain tensioner. Happened to mine, I know the sound you’re describing. Just get the thicker gasket from your favorite parts source and replace. Easy job.

[MotoZA]

I’d wager on a failed sump gasket bleeding pressure from the chain tensioner. Happened to mine, I know the sound you’re describing. Just get the thicker gasket from your favorite parts source and replace. Easy job.

I sure hope it is the gasket! Couldn't get to the flange gasket over the weekend, but will get in there tonight after work.

Apparently only another four bolts that requires removal?

The 14 outer bolts that clamps the sump in place took almost no effort to undo with my small 3/8 drive, I was surprised how easy they were to loosen. I'll need to be very careful when I reinstall and tighten those!

[MotoZA]

So I got the flange off this afternoon after work (took me about 3 or 4 minutes - only 4 bolts), and guess what? Quite a big part of the gasket is simply missing at the ports! I think the missing bit of gasket has been broken up into a thousand small pieces, because I couldn't find it anywhere, but did notice bits of it in the oil I drained and also much smaller parts of it after I washed the sump and flange in paraffin (kerosene).

Busy making the new gasket (also making a new one for sump since it is made of the same fragile/brittle gasket material as the flange gasket). I'm not surprised that it blew out, it's really poor quality gasket (or maybe its just old, but it is so fragile that it doesn't even support its own weight if picked up, it simply tears).

"Flange" is not a particularly good name for the casting that sits between the sump pan and the engine casing, it is more than just simply a flange. Also, I would've thought that Guzzi would make use of O-rings around those oil ports instead of relying only on the gasket to contain the pressure, unless it is quite low pressure.

Managed to finally link some pictures (had to create a Flickr account, doesn't want work with Google Photos). See post below.

[MotoZA]

[Vagrant]

every gasket i ever got was green. maybe somebody's been in there before.

[Markcarovilli]

Good that you at least found the problem and with new gaskets should be OK...

Mark

[lucian]

Nice work , smart to get right to it before a little problem becomes a big one.     Well done!

[Old Jock]

Seen them in green and black, the green ones are usually thicker and better quality

Only know the older engines but the setup looks similar and I think the pressure at the front is at oil pump discharge so no, it's not necessarily low.

If it's the same as the Sport/Centauro/Daytona sort of design I think its crap and would have been far better with O rings as suggested, it's not changed since the 70s or before really.

Like Pete I also call the  intermediate piece between the sump/pan and crankcase "the sump spacer"

Depending which end of the gasket breaks (front or back) or worse breaks and the pieces partially plug the oil ways, they can (in extreme cases) cause significant pressure loss or oil starvation to the bearings

Did I say lousy piece of design?

Glad you found it and got it attended to 

[MotoZA]

Hi all,

Final feedback...

I assembled last night and started her up, loud ticking for about 3 seconds and then quiet (just the oil that had to build up pressure and fill all the drained voids). So it looks like it is sorted!

I cut a thicker gasket for the flange (0.8 mm), although in theory this should make no difference. Also cut a new sump gasket (0.4 mm). Total cost for this was R25 (about $1.6).

Sump Flange Gasket:


Sump Gasket:


Assembled:


Filled the bike with some new but less expensive mineral oil, I want to take it easy and ride it like that for a 100 km or so and then drain to get rid of all (most?) the old bits of gasket (these are minuscule bits). Will then fill with Motul 7100 10W60 full synth as usual and fit a new oil filter too.

Thanks for all the help and words of encouragement.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Attaboy..
That's a fine job of gasket making, too.

[s1120]

Attaboy..
That's a fine job of gasket making, too.

Ditto on that!!  Ive made a LOT of gaskets in my day. I was lucky to be tought by a few real old time guys how to work on stuff, and making gaskets was something you just always did... Ive never made one that looks that nice!!!!! 

[The History Man]

This came up on my search.  Just bought gaskets after reading.  My stelvio has got louder both sides recently so this sounds like a good starting point? Due all oils and filter at Easter so might as well do the sump gaskets as they only cost about £12.

Great work !

[DoubleGuzzi]

.. as they only cost about £12.

You're not from Yorkshire! That's extortionate when a cereal box will do. 

I'll add that's a cracking job you've done on those gaskets, motoZA. 

[Stretch]

VERY nice job on the gaskets, cereal box or not! 

Glad it fixed your problem.

                                     -Stretch