V7 centerstand too tall, hard to use

[redhawk47]

There has been some discussion on Moto-Guzzi-750@groups.io about the difficulty of putting the V7 on the centerstand. Several people have suggested shortening the stand by removing a section in the middle of each leg, avoiding the need to mess with the deployment arm. Suggested amount to remove is about half of the distance the rear wheel is off the ground.

Here are some new comments of mine:
Food for thought. Do you need the centerstand to lift the rear tire off the ground? For servicing you could put a board under the centerstand to get the rear wheel off the ground. Right now I have to put a 2x4 under the rear wheel to get the bike on the centerstand; and then the tire is on the 2x4 (if I remove the 2x4 the tire drops 2mm). My aftermarket shocks are 7mm shorter than OEM - V7II Stone.
BMW airheads typically have a centerstand that does not raise the rear wheel off the ground. It is a "ride off" design with a radiused leading surface that lets you deploy the stand without dismounting the bike, and lets you drive off without first taking the bike off the stand. This would require a whole new centerstand for the V7 to achieve the "ride off" function but we can figured out little we need to raise the bike, with the rear tire still touching the ground, and still be stable on the centerstand.
I will be conducting some experiments.

Does anyone have experience or recommendations on this issue?

Dan,

[egschade]

Sounds like the stand is too tall because you have shorter shock on the bike. Why did you do that? With shorter shocks you may run the risk of stressing the u-joints and having the tire hit the underside of the fender with a big impact. If you're looking for a lower seat height, a lower seat may be the better way to go than shorter shocks.

Try the center stand with the OEM length shocks and see if that makes the center stand use easier. Also try changing your body position to put more weight on on the lever arm. I couldn't use the center stand on my big BMW K1200 tour bike until someone showed me the right position. With that I had no trouble getting that 850 LB beast on the stand.

[malik]

I find the factory centre stand on the V7C and the first gen 1TB bike easy to use. However, I've a mate who upgraded to a V7 II who found the factory stand hard to use, fitted the H&B version, and says it's a breeze to use - a great improvement. Your shorter shocks are a complicating factor. Be that as it may, I still find it useful to put the centrestand up on bits of 2x4 to get the rear wheel past the mudguard. With the left side on the 2" side & the right on the 4", most times the cush rubbers tend to stay in.

[Bulldog9]

The V7 is normally super easy, stock or HB. issue is likely your shock length (short). I had a similar issue on an old yamaha, has 2" drop in spring height. I rolled rear tire on a 2x6 and then popped on CS. Otherwise just used side stand.

[redhawk47]

Some clarifications:
1. There are several V7 owners who are having this issue. I do not know which V7 nor which centerstand they have.
2. I have a 2016 V7II Stone and a Hepco-Becker centerstand. The shocks were recommended by and purchased from Moto International. The 7mm shorter length may mean the the rear tire is 5mm further off the ground when on the CS. Ride height would be a function of the springs and preload; no problems there.
3. To put my Guzzi on the centerstand, I roll the rear wheel up on a 2x4 (1.5" thickness, with a tapered ramp), put my foot and full weight on the centerstand arm, grab the luggage rack, and pull on it with considerable effort. I cannot get the bike on the centerstand without the 2x4. When on the CS the tire is 1-1/3" (34mm) off the pavement. The tire is due for replacement this spring; a new tire would reduce the gap to 30mm.
4. I watched several "how to put your bike on the centerstand" videos this evening to review my technique - it's good. I noticed that in all of the videos the rear tire was about 1/2" off the pavement.
5. I did an experiment to test how short could the CS be, having the tire on the ground, and still be stable. With 2-1/8", 54mm under the wheel it was stable.
6. I measured the wheel base and the location of the CS and found that it was 2/3s of the wheelbase from the front wheel. So if I wanted to lower the rear wheel when on the CS by 30mm I would need to shorten the CS 20mm. This would put a new tire just touching the ground, and my worn tire with 4mm clearance.
7. I could shorten the CS 36mm (see #5) and the bike would be stable when parked on concrete, but on dirt or hot asphalt it may have a problem.
8. YMMV "Your Measurements May Vary". In fact, I expect them to be different.

Dan

[GonzoB]

Hi Dan

The 7mm shorter shocks will change the wheel position by more than 7mm, as the shocks are on an angle. It will probably be more like 10mm.

Have you tried increasing the preload on the shocks? If the bike suspension is compressed a lot when you try and lift it, you have to lift it further than you otherwise would have to, and the springs will be helping you less. I'm not saying you should top out your shocks with no rider on it, but increasing the preload does make it easier to lift.

Re the clearance and universals, I've shortened my Breva 750 shocks by 20mm. I did the geometry on the clearance and the universals and they are both fine. Now yours isn't a Breva, but  I think the geometry is similar.

Gonzo

[Huzo]

Remember that because the centrestand is half way between the contact points of the tyres, removing 1/2” from the stand will lower the rear wheel by 1”.
You need to measure the gap between the rear wheel and a hard level surface.
If that gap is 3” and you would like 1”, then you need to lower the wheel by 2””, so remove 1” from the stand.

[twowheeladdict]

I don't understand why you would want the bike on the center stand and not have the rear wheel off the ground.  Why even have a center stand if that is your goal?  Just put it on the side stand which is more stable than the center stand anyway. 

[Huzo]

I don't understand why you would want the bike on the center stand and not have the rear wheel off the ground.  Why even have a center stand if that is your goal?  Just put it on the side stand which is more stable than the center stand anyway.

The Beemers sat with the rear on the ground and the front off the ground.

[Bulldog9]

Ideally, when on the center stand, either the front or rear tire is off the ground. When you mess with the suspension, making it longer/taller, it will be easier to put on stand, you may find that neither are off the ground, when making it shorter, it will be harder to put on the stand and the tire may be higher off the ground.  I have this issue with my Stornello, I put in longer fork springs and rear shocks (420MM Hagon Enduro) A 1/2" piece of board is all I need to get the tires off the ground.  This is common on Converts as well, an upgrade to the FAC forks and Ikon rears will leave you with a taller suspension and when on center stand neither the front or rear will be off the ground. MG cycle sells a modified center stand to adjust to this. It has longer feet/legs.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I don't understand why you would want the bike on the center stand and not have the rear wheel off the ground.  Why even have a center stand if that is your goal?  Just put it on the side stand which is more stable than the center stand anyway.

This

[ohiorider]

Damn - do I hate it when I preview a post, and forget to save it!

One more time, but much shorter.

Make yourself a small ramp, as shown.

This one is 15" total length.
Height (lift) 1 1/2"
Width 3"

a. With bike on side stand, place ramp under bike in line with rear wheel.  Place ahead of wheel 4-5" to allow for some momentum.
b. Push using both handlebar grips, preparing to stop bike quickly with front brake
c. Once on ramp and stopped, use center stand.  The additional lift of 1 1/2" makes it easier to lift the bike onto stand.
d. Remove ramp

I pitch it in a saddle bag when traveling, and I may have to put bike on center stand.

I use it with the 1200 Sport, R100GS, and now the new T120.  The sweet and long gone W650 had the best center stand ever, and didn't require .

[philwarner]

Some clarifications:
1. There are several V7 owners who are having this issue. I do not know which V7 nor which centerstand they have.
2. I have a 2016 V7II Stone and a Hepco-Becker centerstand. The shocks were recommended by and purchased from Moto International. The 7mm shorter length may mean the the rear tire is 5mm further off the ground when on the CS. Ride height would be a function of the springs and preload; no problems there.
3. To put my Guzzi on the centerstand, I roll the rear wheel up on a 2x4 (1.5" thickness, with a tapered ramp), put my foot and full weight on the centerstand arm, grab the luggage rack, and pull on it with considerable effort. I cannot get the bike on the centerstand without the 2x4. When on the CS the tire is 1-1/3" (34mm) off the pavement. The tire is due for replacement this spring; a new tire would reduce the gap to 30mm.
4. I watched several "how to put your bike on the centerstand" videos this evening to review my technique - it's good. I noticed that in all of the videos the rear tire was about 1/2" off the pavement.
5. I did an experiment to test how short could the CS be, having the tire on the ground, and still be stable. With 2-1/8", 54mm under the wheel it was stable.
6. I measured the wheel base and the location of the CS and found that it was 2/3s of the wheelbase from the front wheel. So if I wanted to lower the rear wheel when on the CS by 30mm I would need to shorten the CS 20mm. This would put a new tire just touching the ground, and my worn tire with 4mm clearance.
7. I could shorten the CS 36mm (see #5) and the bike would be stable when parked on concrete, but on dirt or hot asphalt it may have a problem.
8. YMMV "Your Measurements May Vary". In fact, I expect them to be different.

Dan

I thought I was the only center stand weakling struggling to get my 96 California on it's stand.  I too use the roll-the-rear-tire-onto-blocks method, but yesterday I was having trouble in the garage even doing that, so I used a small rolling floor jack under the center of the frame to lift it an inch or more and then did the lift and push on the center stand arm and it was still a bit of a struggle.  Someone must have turned up the gravity that day.

  My Cali's rear wheel is 1 inch off the ground when on the center stand.  It's rear shocks are on the lowest pre-load setting so maybe cranking that up would make the center stand routine easier, but I'd lose some short-legged safety by raising the seat height.  I don't use the center stand other than storage or to do maintenance, so I agree that there is little point in a center stand that doesn't lift the rear wheel off the ground.

  I didn't have this problem with my Yamaha 305 Cross Country Sport in college, but it was much lighter and I was much younger then.  It is a comfort to know that it is not just me these days.

Oh wait, a thought occurs.  I was trying to back the Cali onto the blocks; do you drive yours onto the blocks?  That might be easier.

[Tom H]

I did what Ohiorider did, but... I used a 2X6 about 2ish foot, under 3 feet long and tapered one end to make a ramp. I also added a stop at the other end to help me not just roll off the end. Works great for the garage, not practical for travel. The aprox. 2" lift worked fine.

My EVT has 12.5" rear shocks and I would need help to get it on the center stand without the ramp. I was going to cut my center stand down an inch or so, but the arm/lever that you put your foot on doesn't leave any room for cutting and welding.

Tom

[bmc5733946]

I used to hire two girls for bike shows to demonstrate putting an EV on it's center stand. One of the girls weighed 110lbs the other 105lbs. I loved watching them teach the technique to 200lbs guys who had repeatedly tried and failed. It is all about weight transfer and leverage.

Brian

[Perazzimx14]

To figure put where you like the center stand and cut 2 or 6 pieces of 1/4 plywood thick wood in 12" square. Two 1/8" pieces would do be valuable.  Place one 1/4" square under each tire and lift the bike onto the center stand and note if it was easier. The add another thickness and try again until you get to where you want to be. Once happy the thickness of the wood (equal under each tire) is the amount the center stands needs to be shortened.

[SIR REAL ED]

or you could just eat your spinach!   ei ei ei ei ei ei ei ei

[ohiorider]

I did what Ohiorider did, but... I used a 2X6 about 2ish foot, under 3 feet long and tapered one end to make a ramp. I also added a stop at the other end to help me not just roll off the end. Works great for the garage, not practical for travel. The aprox. 2" lift worked fine.

My EVT has 12.5" rear shocks and I would need help to get it on the center stand without the ramp. I was going to cut my center stand down an inch or so, but the arm/lever that you put your foot on doesn't leave any room for cutting and welding.

Tom

I need to add a small stop to the end of my ramp, too.  We learn as we go, I guess.

Bob

[mechanicsavant]

Just a quick thought , crank your shock preload up to remove suspension sag . Then try it ! Just don’t forget to reset it.

[sign216]

Here's a link to the original discussion:  https://groups.io/g/Moto-Guzzi-750/topics

[redhawk47]

Hi Dan

The 7mm shorter shocks will change the wheel position by more than 7mm, as the shocks are on an angle. It will probably be more like 10mm.

Have you tried increasing the preload on the shocks? If the bike suspension is compressed a lot when you try and lift it, you have to lift it further than you otherwise would have to, and the springs will be helping you less. I'm not saying you should top out your shocks with no rider on it, but increasing the preload does make it easier to lift.

Re the clearance and universals, I've shortened my Breva 750 shocks by 20mm. I did the geometry on the clearance and the universals and they are both fine. Now yours isn't a Breva, but  I think the geometry is similar.

Gonzo

You are correct about the amount of change caused by a shorter shock. I did a scale drawing (paper and pencil) which said the the wheel raises about 14mm relative to the frame. I will get a CAD drawing done which will give me a more accurate measurement.

I've tried changing the preload. My have a five step adjuster. With no luggage I have been running at the second step, one away from the least preload. I cranked it up to five and tried that, with my 2x4 under the rear wheel. I felt no noticeable difference, in other words, it was still a grunt.

Dan

[redhawk47]

Remember that because the centrestand is half way between the contact points of the tyres, removing 1/2” from the stand will lower the rear wheel by 1”.
You need to measure the gap between the rear wheel and a hard level surface.
If that gap is 3” and you would like 1”, then you need to lower the wheel by 2””, so remove 1” from the stand.

6. I measured the wheel base and the location of the CS and found that it was 2/3s of the wheelbase from the front wheel. So if I wanted to lower the rear wheel when on the CS by 30mm I would need to shorten the CS 20mm. This would put a new tire just touching the ground, and my worn tire with 4mm clearance.

If that gap is 3” and you would like 1”, then you need to lower the wheel by 2””, so remove 1-1/3" from the stand

[redhawk47]

I don't understand why you would want the bike on the center stand and not have the rear wheel off the ground.  Why even have a center stand if that is your goal?  Just put it on the side stand which is more stable than the center stand anyway.

I would rather be able to put the bike on the centerstand (with both wheels on the ground) than to be unable to get it on the centerstand.
I do use the CS when checking oil and when checking valves. When plugging a flat (tubeless) it would not matter. When changing tires I would be at home and I can put a board under the CS.

[redhawk47]

Damn - do I hate it when I preview a post, and forget to save it!

One more time, but much shorter.

Make yourself a small ramp, as shown.

This one is 15" total length.
Height (lift) 1 1/2"
Width 3"

a. With bike on side stand, place ramp under bike in line with rear wheel.  Place ahead of wheel 4-5" to allow for some momentum.
b. Push using both handlebar grips, preparing to stop bike quickly with front brake
c. Once on ramp and stopped, use center stand.  The additional lift of 1 1/2" makes it easier to lift the bike onto stand.
d. Remove ramp

I pitch it in a saddle bag when traveling, and I may have to put bike on center stand.

3. To put my Guzzi on the centerstand, I roll the rear wheel up on a 2x4 (1.5" thickness, with a tapered ramp), put my foot and full weight on the centerstand arm, grab the luggage rack, and pull on it with considerable effort. I cannot get the bike on the centerstand without the 2x4. When on the CS the tire is 1-1/3" (34mm) off the pavement.
Even with this ramp it is a struggle to get the bike onto the centerstand. And I don't want to carry it with me.

Dan

[redhawk47]

Oh wait, a thought occurs.  I was trying to back the Cali onto the blocks; do you drive yours onto the blocks?  That might be easier.

I have been backing the bike onto the block because that is easier than pushing it on. I am adding a stop block to the ramp; that will require pushing or driving the bike up the ramp because the CS moves the bike back as it is deployed.

[redhawk47]

My EVT has 12.5" rear shocks and I would need help to get it on the center stand without the ramp. I was going to cut my center stand down an inch or so, but the arm/lever that you put your foot on doesn't leave any room for cutting and welding.
Tom

I don't know the details of your CS; the V7II stand has an arm/lever at the bottom foot. I plan to remove material in the "middle", above the arm/lever.

Dan

[redhawk47]

I used to hire two girls for bike shows to demonstrate putting an EV on it's center stand. One of the girls weighed 110lbs the other 105lbs. I loved watching them teach the technique to 200lbs guys who had repeatedly tried and failed. It is all about weight transfer and leverage.
Brian

I've watched a half dozen Youtube videos on using the centerstand and did not see anything different than what I am doing.
Any and all suggestions will be appreciated.

Dan

PS: I did see one new idea for when taking it off the CS: Have the bike in gear and do not use the clutch - this will keep it from rolling away from you. I don't know if this is actually a good idea because of the shock loads on the gearbox and gears.

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

Work squats into your workout routine. Maybe some deadlifts as well if your back is good. If you don’t have a workout routine that’s your problem right there.

[Tom H]

PS: I did see one new idea for when taking it off the CS: Have the bike in gear and do not use the clutch - this will keep it from rolling away from you. I don't know if this is actually a good idea because of the shock loads on the gearbox and gears.

I don't think having it in gear would be a good idea. I think it would jerk to a stop and become unstable.

When you come off the stand, I would have the side stand down and sorta pull the bike to that side and sorta walk it to a stop. You don't want to land on the side stand, it's really there for insurance.

Edit: I'm used to the police style side stands. The lock as weight gets on them. Your side stand probably doesn't do this.

Tom

[sign216]

I encourage 750cc owners to join and view the original discussion here:  https://groups.io/g/Moto-Guzzi-750/topic/center_stand/43699739?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,43699739


Failing that, here is my original post on this from WG:  https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=100774.0

Joe